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Kiredor wrote:It counts as a power weapon, that also causes leadership tests on unsaved wounds to cause instant death.

The Soul Devourer has special rules for close combat.

You can't just take the sentence about it counting as a power weapon and ignore the other rules associated with that.

As it has special rules, you can never look at the model to decide what it is.

Yeah, but what AP is it? Is it a Power Sword, Halbard, Axe, Maul or Lance? That's what I'm asking, I know it has those rules, but in a game could you use it as a Power Maul or Axe for my Herald or Greater Daemon?

blood reaper wrote:

Kiredor wrote:It counts as a power weapon, that also causes leadership tests on unsaved wounds to cause instant death.

The Soul Devourer has special rules for close combat.

You can't just take the sentence about it counting as a power weapon and ignore the other rules associated with that.

As it has special rules, you can never look at the model to decide what it is.

Yeah, but what AP is it? Is it a Power Sword, Halbard, Axe, Maul or Lance? That's what I'm asking, I know it has those rules, but in a game could you use it as a Power Maul or Axe for my Herald or Greater Daemon?

special power weapon (or whatever it's called) means it's AP3 + whatever rules it has. So Soul Devourer is an AP 3 force weapon.

Daemon's don't use force weapons, nor any psychic powers for that matter.

blood reaper wrote:Daemon's don't use force weapons, nor any psychic powers for that matter.

Oh yeah, the dude taking the wound takes the leadership

Testify wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Daemon's don't use force weapons, nor any psychic powers for that matter.

Oh yeah, the dude taking the wound takes the leadership

Yeah, but hopefully there will be an FAQ soon that sorts this out, other wise.

Strength 8 Tzeentch Daemon Princes......

It has rules other than the basic rules for power weapons.

It is an unusual power weapon, S user, AP 3.

As he is an MC, a LOC will be AP2.

sigh...people try really hard to gain any conceivable advantage don't they. Kiredor has it right.

It is obvious that you get no bonus to S for using soul devour...

1.) The daemon does not actually have a power weapon, he/she "counts as having a power weapon". Soul Devour is a gift not a weapon, and reading the description it is clear that it is not a physical weapon. I.e. the staff is not the soul devour nor is anything else you put in the hand of your daemon.

2.) Even if it is a PW it has the ability to cause instant death (as wounds caused by a daemon with this upgrade can) and would be an unusual PW making it AP3 (2 for MCs due to smash...)

blood reaper wrote:

Testify wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Daemon's don't use force weapons, nor any psychic powers for that matter.

Oh yeah, the dude taking the wound takes the leadership

Yeah, but hopefully there will be an FAQ soon that sorts this out, other wise.

Strength 8 Tzeentch Daemon Princes......

Only if you ignore the rules for Unusual power weapons. Which you shouldnt do

It has additional close combat rules, meaning it is ALWAYS S: User, AP3.

Geez people. Read the codex.

"The Daemon counts as armed with a power weapon. IN ADDITION, if a model suffers any unsaved wounds from the Daemon's close combat attacks..."

The extra rules are not related to the power weapon. They are given to the Daemon. Even if the Daemon chooses not to use his power weapon, you still take the LD test.

It's stupid people are arguing "counts as" versus "is wielding". He obviously has a power weapon, and this is obviously what he is armed with. So yes, your LOC gets +2 strength.

Edit: Actually, RAW, if you don't give the LOC +2 strength in game you're cheating, because you use the stats of what the model is armed with

Completely playing devils advocate here, but there is more basis to this than people are giving credit. I would say its probably on par with the old 'Scoring Land Speeder' trick from the Dark Angels codex in terms of 'RAW, but very loopholey and really justifiable to ignore'.


P73- Describing Daemonic gifts,
'The following pages include Gifts, Marks.... all of which are equivalent to the weapons and other wargear used by mere mortals..

So there is definite ground for Soul Devourer to be a 'true' Power Weapon and thus eligible for Axe, Sword, Spear or Maul provided it is not an unusual Power Weapon.


P74- Soul Devourer
'The Daemon counts as armed with a Power Weapon. In addition, if a model suffers any unsaved wounds from the Daemon's close combat attacks, it must immediately...'

Again, there is some ground to say that the Instant Death effect is conferred to the Daemon and not the weapon. If all the close combat attacks benefit, this would also include the likes of Vector Strikes or Hammer of Wrath and so the Devourer itself would not have any special properties. It merely augments all of its attacks, similar to how Unholy Might is not a weapon granting +1S, but gives it to all aspects of the Daemon.

Food for thought.

DarkCorsair wrote:Geez people. Read the codex.

"The Daemon counts as armed with a power weapon. IN ADDITION, if a model suffers any unsaved wounds from the Daemon's close combat attacks..."

The extra rules are not related to the power weapon. They are given to the Daemon. Even if the Daemon chooses not to use his power weapon, you still take the LD test.

It's stupid people are arguing "counts as" versus "is wielding". He obviously has a power weapon, and this is obviously what he is armed with. So yes, your LOC gets +2 strength.

Edit: Actually, RAW, if you don't give the LOC +2 strength in game you're cheating, because you use the stats of what the model is armed with

Counts as is not the same as has... If I arm my herald or daemon prince with soul devour there is no requirement that I model him with any weapon at all. The "fluff" description is that the daemon reaches into his enemy and removes the soul. Not that he has a weapon of any kind, the staff is not the soul devour. Also correct me if I am wrong but if soul devour was a pw I'm pretty sure you could not choose not to swing with it.

 jy2 wrote:


Permanent changes, like Unholy Might and Soul Devourer, should count towards vector strike because it basically makes their stat permanent.

Unholy Might is a permanent change, as it gives "+1 Str on its profile." But Soul Devourer counts as a power weapon, which can only be used in the Assault Phase. So the strongest Vector Strike from a LoC is Str7 w/ UM, and the strongest possible is Str8, from a Bloodthirster w/ UM. Can't use a Power Maul with Vector Strike, since the "weapon" applies in the assault phase only, and VS is in the movement phase.

But who cares if I can't get a Str9 VS, when My LoC is going to be Str8 in CC (UM+Power Maul), which will be enough to InstaKill Paladins AND shred their armour. I don't even have to make them fail a Ld10!

Elric Greywolf wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


Permanent changes, like Unholy Might and Soul Devourer, should count towards vector strike because it basically makes their stat permanent.

Unholy Might is a permanent change, as it gives "+1 Str on its profile." But Soul Devourer counts as a power weapon, which can only be used in the Assault Phase. So the strongest Vector Strike from a LoC is Str7 w/ UM, and the strongest possible is Str8, from a Bloodthirster w/ UM. Can't use a Power Maul with Vector Strike, since the "weapon" applies in the assault phase only, and VS is in the movement phase.

But who cares if I can't get a Str9 VS, when My LoC is going to be Str8 in CC (UM+Power Maul), which will be enough to InstaKill Paladins AND shred their armour. I don't even have to make them fail a Ld10!

Unholy might's a modifier as defined on pg2. So VS is only ever at "base"

Elric Greywolf wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


Permanent changes, like Unholy Might and Soul Devourer, should count towards vector strike because it basically makes their stat permanent.

Unholy Might is a permanent change, as it gives "+1 Str on its profile." But Soul Devourer counts as a power weapon, which can only be used in the Assault Phase. So the strongest Vector Strike from a LoC is Str7 w/ UM, and the strongest possible is Str8, from a Bloodthirster w/ UM. Can't use a Power Maul with Vector Strike, since the "weapon" applies in the assault phase only, and VS is in the movement phase.

But who cares if I can't get a Str9 VS, when My LoC is going to be Str8 in CC (UM+Power Maul), which will be enough to InstaKill Paladins AND shred their armour. I don't even have to make them fail a Ld10!

Nice thread necro.

Addressing your points:

1. Unholy Might is a Daemonic Gift, which the Daemon Codex says is equivalent to Wargear. The BRB FAQ entry to Vector Strike says that it gains no bonus from special rules, weapons or wargear. As much as I'd like to have a Bloodthirster Vector Strike with strength 8, it just doesn't work.

2. Read the DoC FAQ. On page 2 they changed Soul Devourer. It says to remove sentences two, three and four (the parts that describe the effect and say the model counts as equipped with a power weapons), it replaces those sentences with a weapon profile (Range: - S: User AP: 3 Type: Melee, Soul Devourer).

Gah I was wondering why I had never seen this thread before ... Damn Necro freaks!

Gifts of Tzeentch, Soul Devourer.
Replace the second, third and fourth sentences with the
following profile:
Range S AP Type
Soul Devourer - User 3 Melee,
Soul Devour
Soul Devour: If a model suffers any unsaved Wounds from the
Daemon’s close combat Attacks, it must immediately take a
Leadership test for each Wound suffered (on its own
Leadership value, the model cannot use another model’s Ld
for the test). If any of these tests are failed, the victim suffers
Instant Death.

its in the faq