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Poll
How do you feel about 6th edition.
I love 6th Edition
6th Edition is a step up from 5th Edition.
No real Opinion
6th Edition is Ok, but i preferred 5th Edition.
I Hate 6th Edition
To early to tell
Other, please write in responce.

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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




sennacherib wrote:
Plumbumbarum wrote:Yes the number is solid, errors do not fix themselves with larger sample though.


I realize that nothing i write or site will change your opinion and that you would likely argue yourself blue in the face that the poll numbers are wrong, even if the poll reached 60,000 people (unless of course the results reflect the way you feel about the game).


If the whole 60000 people from DakkaDakka voted in the poll, you would have the opinion of DakkaDakka forum which, without the research of what DakkaDakka forum is, would give you only that - the opinion of DakkaDakka forum. If 60000 people voted but you made a mistake, depending on how big your mistake was your poll could be somehow wrong, ranging from slightly biased to completly worthless.

Also not sure why you accuse me of potentialy "arguing myself blue in the face that the poll numbers were wrong, even if the poll reached 60,000 people", in fact that number would be impressive and an achievement in itself. Now we would know that people on DakkaDakka "love the game" or "prefer it over 5th", would we know why is that? Would that mean the ruleset itself is better, evolved etc? What is enough for those people to love the ruleset? Or maybe people would vote even more enthusiasticly if the rules criticised by the "hate" crowd were changed to the supposed haters liking?

You know a girl loves you, great. Now is it because of the insight of your very soul, your goodness, your intelligence, your looks, your car or your bank account? Quite a difference... love is too much undefined.

Btw reflecting the way I feel about the game, my opinion is "another mediocore ruleset, should be much much better because after 5 editions it was about time for some real quality". If the poll proved that everybody loves 6th that would change nothing for me personaly, I know I have high expectations and on the sidenote, think people should have those too here. You posted a poll and accuse me of attacking it because of my bias, fine, whatever. I can only tell you I'm not even entirely sure if it's worse than 5th, just 3+ reserves make it hard and there are quite a few other positives in 6th. That my stance on both lacking quality and deserving critique (especialy looking at the cost of a whole thing) for you means hatred is a different story and a misunderstanding imo

sennacherib wrote:So how about you use your superior knowledge of statistics to construct another poll that lacks the errors and flaws that you feel this one has.


Superior is kind of a big word, I have some knowledge and experience of creating poll research - I studied it for some time and it's a part of my work. What it did to me is made me see a potential problems when conducting a research and this is what I post. I tried to come up with my own questions but quickly found problems with them as well, either being biased or vague or sth. It's not an easy task, for me impossible with my "scientific" bias and limited time. Don't expect me to build a proper poll because I can't but frankly I think you can't build one as well. Again, my forum poll would be simiarly, maybe slightly less flawed.

Btw I think this one would be better than yours for example

Blood and Slaughter wrote:Actually you'd probably be better having a much simpler poll.

Option one: I am overall more satisfied than unhappy with the 6th edition 40K rules

Option two: I am overall more unhappy than satisfied with the 6th edition 40K rules


And asking people who are unsure or undecided not to vote until they have played enough to form an opinion.


...but in the end would be equally easy to dismiss.

orknidious wrote:

Dont waste your time sennacherib.

In truth Plumbob is right about one thing. The accuracy of internet polls is not perfect. But if he thinks a larger sample size does not matter with statistics, then he cant know much about how stats works.


And now please point me to the post where I claimed such a ridiculous thing. If it's about my last quote about the poll, let's see

Plumbumbarum wrote:Yes the number is solid,...


Translation: the number of voters is substantial and could suffice, assuming no errors...

Plumbumbarum wrote:..errors do not fix themselves with larger sample though.


Translation: ...but some errors don't dissapear when the sample grows, just are repeated on bigger scale (and I'm not talking only about errors in questions). No claim you accuse me of, please read into things next time.

orknidious wrote:Dont ask for his help either. ITs way easier to complain and grumble than it is to do something constructive.


I think I offered something constructive:

Plumbumbarum wrote:So again, in this case Internet forum poll is worthless especialy with answers like yours butif you still want to engage in such a waste of time, start with multiple questions poll, post it on multiple sites, pick responders at random from the given forum populations. Do a research before of how much the Internet reflects the customer base, define positive and negative feedback, find out which sites represent what cathegory of players at what percentage after of course defining those cathegories, make questions to get knowledge of what kind of people consider it better/worse and why, avoid words describing emotional reactions as those are influenced by too many factors, expect multiple tries to confirm, top of my head. You can go wrong at any point of the research - methodology/ defining/ cathegorising/ questions/ sample size/ respondent answers analysis etc... have fun.


and you can't expect me, having such a stance, to do all of the mentioned work. Maybe, just maybe I exaggerated and this can be done with a single question poll on a forum thread. Frankly I don't see how, maybe asking mods to use an application to randomly pick respondents (to avoid this http://www.greenbook.org/marketing-research.cfm/non-response-bias for example) could help but really, how can I participate in the task I see as senseless and consider huge? I put myself in GW shoes for a while thinking how would I measure feedback of 6th edition and found immense problems, note that I assumed huge resources, power et.

It's imo too much effort and in the end I don't even care for the result, you know proper quality managment is giving people things they do not know are important or needed. You know you can built PCs with low quality PSU for thousands of people and majority (those whose PC won't fail instantly, kind of rare even with lowly PSUs) of them will be happy.Doesn't change the fact that quality PSUs in their PCs would improve the lifespan of their components, reliablity of the PC and their personal safety. So, mitigate the risk of latter failure, just like a proper rule or good balance mitigate the risk of the flawed game decided by a lucky roll or auto-win list.

You can't negate my critique of Internet poll research only because I don't make my own poll or don't offer instant solutions. In fact that I don't might be a proof of me being right and it's worthless. I can be wrong but that doesn't prove it, imo.

From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.

A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.

How could I look away?

 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Hell Hole Washington

See the Blue in the face reference dude.

You make a few good points but regardless, you have not convinced me that you are right and the marginal number of voters who have voted that they hate 6th ed actually represents the majority dakka opinion. Instead you actually support the argument that i made earlier. That a small number of vitriolic posters opinions do not represent the opinon that dakka has of 6th ed. I acknowledge that polls on line often have some bias. But the fact that you are so biased that you refuse to believe the poll remains unchanged. I mean really. Do you HONESTLY not believe the poll numbers reflect the general opinon that dakka has of the new rules. As with all statistics there is a margin of error but do you really feel that the overall opinion of Dakka is that 6th is a step down. Really?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/25 09:14:56


Pestilence Provides.  
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dude a single study without a second reference group based on a single question when half of them are based on facts[disliked 6th for rules] and other half on emotions[love 6th . what does that even suppose to mean ?] is not valid . It wouldnt even be valid for checking how the Dakka Dakka community views the 6th ed . I mean this is basic testing stuff since Durkheim did his study on suicide .

the best thing we could do with it is to check the reactions to 6th ed . where and why[if any] people see problems with the 6th . For example is first blood too important , how many people think so . is there a correlation between thinking it is too important and the type of anwser give in the poll . If yes then is it strong or is it not and for which group is it more common.

How is the change to assaulted viewed by people linked to what type of army they play [for example . considering meq can easily go gunline , does it change how meq players view the change , when their codex[not armies. army builds could be destroyed by the change] can easily adapt .

And for the lolz . Is playing against necron scyth wing every 1-2 days pushing the poll more in to the I disliked 6th rules or I love 6th .

The poll we have right now says nothing . The posts say more , but this is qualitative sociology which was never my forte.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 sennacherib wrote:
See the Blue in the face reference dude.

You make a few good points but regardless, you have not convinced me that you are right and the marginal number of voters who have voted that they hate 6th ed actually represents the majority dakka opinion. Instead you actually support the argument that i made earlier. That a small number of vitriolic posters opinions do not represent the opinon that dakka has of 6th ed. I acknowledge that polls on line often have some bias. But the fact that you are so biased that you refuse to believe the poll remains unchanged. I mean really. Do you HONESTLY not believe the poll numbers reflect the general opinon that dakka has of the new rules. As with all statistics there is a margin of error but do you really feel that the overall opinion of Dakka is that 6th is a step down. Really?


Going down to your level of discusssion, you made a quick forum poll and expect people to accept it as a valid data about feedback of 6th edition and validity of people criticising it, then argue blue in the face when faced with objections that were obious to follow. Took 15 minutes to make a single question poll and knows now, that good.

I never claimed that the marginal number of voters who have voted that they hate 6th ed actually represents the majority dakka opinion. I claimed that it can't be proven with your poll, that it's meaningless to the feedback of the whole consumer base, that it's irrelevant when measuring the quality of the ruleset and that you may be right that majority likes it, numerous times afair.

Yes honestly, the poll can be meaningful and can be worthless, so is worthless. And if it was meaningful in a way that reflected DakkaDakka forum stance, still would be worthless because "I love 6th edition" or "I hate 6th edition"hardly means a lot. But wait, I've posted it already, elaborated few times and in the end all you can come up with is "blue in the face" and accusations of bias without actualy dissmissing the notion that you need a some actual work to gather solid data. Btw it's all kind of an insult to real researchers.

Dude.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/25 10:09:38


From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.

A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.

How could I look away?

 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Hell Hole Washington

Wouldn't a poll entitled "What do you think of the quality of the 6th ed ruleset" have been more appropriate if i was trying to measure quality. If you look through my posts in this thread, you will see that i was not trying to poll on the quality of the rules. If you think that polling with questions like "do you like this".? is worthless then i would point you to the numerous and well funded corporations whose entire mission is to find out if someone likes or dislikes a product.

As i have stated before i am not interested in finding out what everyone in the world thinks of 40k, nor am i interested in finding out what all 40k gamers think. I was polling dakka because a small vocal group of critics were repeatedly posting their dislike of the new rules on any thread they could find here on dakka. I wanted to know what the community of dakka thought.

When i made the accusation of bias and "blue in the face", these accusations were made with complete merit based on your statements. Take for example your leangthy post at the top of the page and your most recent statement that polliong someone on wether they love or hate 6th ed is worthless info. surely you know that the difference between loving something and hating something is hardly worthless information.

Once again. I never claimed to be doing some high minded study. I just wanted to take a informal measure of the overall opinion of dakka because a group that i suspect to be small was flooding certain threads that i was reading with their hate of 6th ed. Threads that had nothing to do with the quality of the rules set were inundated with posts from the same vitriolic persons who in some cases seemed to be attempting to "shout down" opposing opinion via the weight and breadth of the posts they made on the matter. I suspect that you fit into the aforementioned group based on you signature and the fact that you have made lengthy arguments based on your possibly erroneous assumption that this poll entitled "How do you like 6th ed" was actually a poll measuring the quality of the ruleset.

I agree that GW could up the quality of their rules. I never disputed this fact nor did i need a poll to quantify this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/25 17:01:29


Pestilence Provides.  
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




sennacherib wrote:Wouldn't a poll entitled "What do you think of the quality of the 6th ed ruleset" have been more appropriate if i was trying to measure quality. If you look through my posts in this thread, you will see that i was not trying to poll on the quality of the rules. If you think that polling with questions like "do you like this".? is worthless then i would point you to the numerous and well funded corporations whose entire mission is to find out if someone likes or dislikes a product.

As i have stated before i am not interested in finding out what everyone in the world thinks of 40k, nor am i interested in finding out what all 40k gamers think. I was polling dakka because a small vocal group of critics were repeatedly posting their dislike of the new rules on any thread they could find here on dakka. I wanted to know what the community of dakka thought.


So you asked for feedback to invalidate "the small vocal group of critics" that "were repeatedly posting their dislike of the new rules", you're asking about rules then or it doesn't make sense. If asking about rules, "like" "dislike" "love" and "hate" are too vague here, obviously if you wanted to measure emotional reaction to your product those would work. You won't invalidate the supposed haters opinion on rules by showing that the majority of the forum had positive emotional reaction.

On a sidenote, as you asked for constructive, finding a way to randomly choose posters to vote would really give more credit to the results, assuming ofc that you only want to know the stance of the forum. Splitting the answers to for example "I like 6th edition because the rules are less abstract/ I like 6th edition because the rules benefit narrative play/ I like the 6th edition because I was bored with 5th/ I like 6th edition because my army got better/ I like 6th edition because of the craziness" etc could be a good start. See I wrote those answers down and already see numerous issues, it really is some work to get anything viable.

sennacherib wrote:When i made the accusation of bias and "blue in the face", these accusations were made with complete merit based on your statements. Take for example your leangthy post at the top of the page and your most recent statement that polliong someone on wether they love or hate 6th ed is worthless info. surely you know that the difference between loving something and hating something is hardly worthless information.


It is worthless in the context, I'm sure Apple would love such a poll about Iphone because that's they act on emotional response of their consumer base. From what I understand, the question here is does the majority like the things that vitrol spewing band criticise, that would require more specific question and analysis I guess as the hate brigade uses actual examples, at least if we're talking about the same posts.

Why a lenghty post means blue in the face, don't get it. I like throwing one-liners but those are prone to misunderstading and often boorish so in discussions like this I try to elaborate to get my stance across. Bias accusation is cheap as I could say the same about you posting/ defending the poll, what's the point. I can be negative about the 6th edition but still fair, you know.

sennacherib wrote:Once again. I never claimed to be doing some high minded study. I just wanted to take a informal measure of the overall opinion of dakka because a group that i suspect to be small was flooding certain threads that i was reading with their hate of 6th ed. Threads that had nothing to do with the quality of the rules set were inundated with posts from the same vitriolic persons who in some cases seemed to be attempting to "shout down" opposing opinion via the weight and breadth of the posts they made on the matter. I suspect that you fit into the aforementioned group based on you signature and the fact that you have made lengthy arguments based on your possibly erroneous assumption that this poll entitled "How do you like 6th ed" was actually a poll measuring the quality of the ruleset.


So if that was not about the rules, what did you actualy ask about with "love", "like" and "hate" as answers? What were you trying to prove? That people love or like the new edition for reasons outside of the rules quality so hate crowd should stop criticising the ruleset?

And since you pointed to my signature, you see "cinematic" for example in computer games ussualy means "cheap scripted crap" and that translates somehow into 40k tabletop imo. Even in movies it can be used as pejorative term describing overabundance of stuff blowing up in mindless blockbusters. I don't want this game to be like mindless blockbuster, I want this game to be like good dark sf with plot deep enough that I don't need a snake suddenly eating a space marine to get involved. Now, you can convince me that it's not the case here with arguments, examples, logic but I can't see how you could make me stop thinking what I think by showing me results of a poll like this one. I don't know why people love the edition or consider it better so sheer numbers of postive answers without clarification of what that actualy means is, guess what, meaningless for me.

sennacherib wrote:I agree that GW could up the quality of their rules. I never disputed this fact nor did i need a poll to quantify this.


At last we definately agree on something.

From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.

A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.

How could I look away?

 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 sennacherib wrote:
See the Blue in the face reference dude.

You make a few good points but regardless, you have not convinced me that you are right and the marginal number of voters who have voted that they hate 6th ed actually represents the majority dakka opinion
You're relying on an internet poll that does not necessarily have discrete categories (e.g. some people may love 6th but not think it a step up from 5E, or they may hate it and still think it's a step up from 5E, etc), with two options that functionally are the same thing (Too early to tell and No Opinion). Relying on a poll like this to give any sort of meaningful information on any level is a mistake.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



SoCal

 AngryMarine wrote:
I like sixth about as much as a forced colonic irrigation. I like sixth as much as finding Santa's fetid, maggot strewn corpse in my chimney.
6th edition wasn't made to clarify any disputed rules, or fix the game as a whole. It wasn't made to improve the product. It was made so you would drop another 300 bucks making your army relevant to the new rules. They made rules for their crappy terrain so that they could recoup their losses on the molds. This entire edition screams "All your cash are belong to us." I pray I can convince my friends to give up on this garbage.


That is the best statement to date on the subject.

AngryMarine wrote:
My armies are going to buy more Warmachine models. I'll likely try out Relic Knights, Infinity and Malifaux.


I've started looking into Malifaux, my FLGS has a group that meets regularly. Low entry cost + good writing = everything 6th ed 40K is not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/26 22:14:11


"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs." -- House of Pain 
   
Made in pl
Kelne





Warsaw, Poland

 sennacherib wrote:
Wouldn't a poll entitled "What do you think of the quality of the 6th ed ruleset" have been more appropriate if i was trying to measure quality. If you look through my posts in this thread, you will see that i was not trying to poll on the quality of the rules. If you think that polling with questions like "do you like this".? is worthless then i would point you to the numerous and well funded corporations whose entire mission is to find out if someone likes or dislikes a product.

As i have stated before i am not interested in finding out what everyone in the world thinks of 40k, nor am i interested in finding out what all 40k gamers think. I was polling dakka because a small vocal group of critics were repeatedly posting their dislike of the new rules on any thread they could find here on dakka. I wanted to know what the community of dakka thought.

When i made the accusation of bias and "blue in the face", these accusations were made with complete merit based on your statements. Take for example your leangthy post at the top of the page and your most recent statement that polliong someone on wether they love or hate 6th ed is worthless info. surely you know that the difference between loving something and hating something is hardly worthless information.

Once again. I never claimed to be doing some high minded study. I just wanted to take a informal measure of the overall opinion of dakka because a group that i suspect to be small was flooding certain threads that i was reading with their hate of 6th ed. Threads that had nothing to do with the quality of the rules set were inundated with posts from the same vitriolic persons who in some cases seemed to be attempting to "shout down" opposing opinion via the weight and breadth of the posts they made on the matter. I suspect that you fit into the aforementioned group based on you signature and the fact that you have made lengthy arguments based on your possibly erroneous assumption that this poll entitled "How do you like 6th ed" was actually a poll measuring the quality of the ruleset.

I agree that GW could up the quality of their rules. I never disputed this fact nor did i need a poll to quantify this.


Most people seem to understand your intent for making the poll. It's that some people like to argue for the sake of arguing.

I agree that Dakka as a whole seems to have received the new edition positively.
   
Made in us
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer





I have been able to get alot of games in now and here are my thoughts:
Necrons- made them better
Eldar and DE- not so much
Orks-helped a bit
Space Marines- well need I say more.
Nids- major helped, work much better with 6th ed rules.
Sisters- bout the same

These are the armies I play and what I have experienced and are only my opinion.
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

Kind of surprised to see such overwhelmingly positive reactions. Mine is nominally positive as well. A couple of complaints, but largely the rules are an improvement from 5th edition.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Alkasyn wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Wouldn't a poll entitled "What do you think of the quality of the 6th ed ruleset" have been more appropriate if i was trying to measure quality. If you look through my posts in this thread, you will see that i was not trying to poll on the quality of the rules. If you think that polling with questions like "do you like this".? is worthless then i would point you to the numerous and well funded corporations whose entire mission is to find out if someone likes or dislikes a product.

As i have stated before i am not interested in finding out what everyone in the world thinks of 40k, nor am i interested in finding out what all 40k gamers think. I was polling dakka because a small vocal group of critics were repeatedly posting their dislike of the new rules on any thread they could find here on dakka. I wanted to know what the community of dakka thought.

When i made the accusation of bias and "blue in the face", these accusations were made with complete merit based on your statements. Take for example your leangthy post at the top of the page and your most recent statement that polliong someone on wether they love or hate 6th ed is worthless info. surely you know that the difference between loving something and hating something is hardly worthless information.

Once again. I never claimed to be doing some high minded study. I just wanted to take a informal measure of the overall opinion of dakka because a group that i suspect to be small was flooding certain threads that i was reading with their hate of 6th ed. Threads that had nothing to do with the quality of the rules set were inundated with posts from the same vitriolic persons who in some cases seemed to be attempting to "shout down" opposing opinion via the weight and breadth of the posts they made on the matter. I suspect that you fit into the aforementioned group based on you signature and the fact that you have made lengthy arguments based on your possibly erroneous assumption that this poll entitled "How do you like 6th ed" was actually a poll measuring the quality of the ruleset.

I agree that GW could up the quality of their rules. I never disputed this fact nor did i need a poll to quantify this.


Most people seem to understand your intent for making the poll. It's that some people like to argue for the sake of arguing.


Now that surely requires a poll.

 Alkasyn wrote:
I agree that Dakka as a whole seems to have received the new edition positively.


Source?


From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.

A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.

How could I look away?

 
   
Made in gb
Excited About the Great Crusade




England, UK

 sennacherib wrote:
Lots of people have been posting strong opinions here and in other forums about the changes made by GW when they released 6th edition 40k.
How do you feel dakka.


I've not played 40K since the '90s and my last game was 2nd edition. I tried two quick games with the new 6th edition and have to say I like it. The game moves quickly and it seems to have detail where it counts. I'm liking what I see so far, especially the much simplified vehicle and psyker rules compared to 2nd.

Regards

Michael G. Thomas
Author of the bestselling Star Crusades series
http://www.amazon.com/Michael-G.-Thomas/e/B0034AF2Q0/ 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Hell Hole Washington

 Alkasyn wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Wouldn't a poll entitled "What do you think of the quality of the 6th ed ruleset" have been more appropriate if i was trying to measure quality. If you look through my posts in this thread, you will see that i was not trying to poll on the quality of the rules. If you think that polling with questions like "do you like this".? is worthless then i would point you to the numerous and well funded corporations whose entire mission is to find out if someone likes or dislikes a product.

As i have stated before i am not interested in finding out what everyone in the world thinks of 40k, nor am i interested in finding out what all 40k gamers think. I was polling dakka because a small vocal group of critics were repeatedly posting their dislike of the new rules on any thread they could find here on dakka. I wanted to know what the community of dakka thought.

When i made the accusation of bias and "blue in the face", these accusations were made with complete merit based on your statements. Take for example your leangthy post at the top of the page and your most recent statement that polliong someone on wether they love or hate 6th ed is worthless info. surely you know that the difference between loving something and hating something is hardly worthless information.

Once again. I never claimed to be doing some high minded study. I just wanted to take a informal measure of the overall opinion of dakka because a group that i suspect to be small was flooding certain threads that i was reading with their hate of 6th ed. Threads that had nothing to do with the quality of the rules set were inundated with posts from the same vitriolic persons who in some cases seemed to be attempting to "shout down" opposing opinion via the weight and breadth of the posts they made on the matter. I suspect that you fit into the aforementioned group based on you signature and the fact that you have made lengthy arguments based on your possibly erroneous assumption that this poll entitled "How do you like 6th ed" was actually a poll measuring the quality of the ruleset.

I agree that GW could up the quality of their rules. I never disputed this fact nor did i need a poll to quantify this.


Most people seem to understand your intent for making the poll. It's that some people like to argue for the sake of arguing.

I agree that Dakka as a whole seems to have received the new edition positively.


I couldnt agree more. Dakka is filled with those who love to argue and carrying on a discussion with them is impossible. Thus the best course of action is not to respond. I thought about wasting time and involving one of my friends who has a PhD in Mathmatics, and has taught stats for years, but no matter what i say and how much documentation i have, it would be easier, less stressful and less a waste of time to just ignore the comments of those who choose to argue.

There is one useful aspect to the constant arguers. They keep this poll up on the front page where it continues to get more votes. While the ratio's have changed slightly, there is still an overwhelming number of respondents who prefer the new rules to the 5th ed rules. while the number who hate it has remained virtually the same the entire time, at just 5%.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/30 22:52:33


Pestilence Provides.  
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 sennacherib wrote:
 Alkasyn wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Wouldn't a poll entitled "What do you think of the quality of the 6th ed ruleset" have been more appropriate if i was trying to measure quality. If you look through my posts in this thread, you will see that i was not trying to poll on the quality of the rules. If you think that polling with questions like "do you like this".? is worthless then i would point you to the numerous and well funded corporations whose entire mission is to find out if someone likes or dislikes a product.

As i have stated before i am not interested in finding out what everyone in the world thinks of 40k, nor am i interested in finding out what all 40k gamers think. I was polling dakka because a small vocal group of critics were repeatedly posting their dislike of the new rules on any thread they could find here on dakka. I wanted to know what the community of dakka thought.

When i made the accusation of bias and "blue in the face", these accusations were made with complete merit based on your statements. Take for example your leangthy post at the top of the page and your most recent statement that polliong someone on wether they love or hate 6th ed is worthless info. surely you know that the difference between loving something and hating something is hardly worthless information.

Once again. I never claimed to be doing some high minded study. I just wanted to take a informal measure of the overall opinion of dakka because a group that i suspect to be small was flooding certain threads that i was reading with their hate of 6th ed. Threads that had nothing to do with the quality of the rules set were inundated with posts from the same vitriolic persons who in some cases seemed to be attempting to "shout down" opposing opinion via the weight and breadth of the posts they made on the matter. I suspect that you fit into the aforementioned group based on you signature and the fact that you have made lengthy arguments based on your possibly erroneous assumption that this poll entitled "How do you like 6th ed" was actually a poll measuring the quality of the ruleset.

I agree that GW could up the quality of their rules. I never disputed this fact nor did i need a poll to quantify this.


Most people seem to understand your intent for making the poll. It's that some people like to argue for the sake of arguing.

I agree that Dakka as a whole seems to have received the new edition positively.


I couldnt agree more. Dakka is filled with those who love to argue and carrying on a discussion with them is impossible. Thus the best course of action is not to respond. I thought about wasting time and involving one of my friends who has a PhD in Mathmatics, and has taught stats for years, but no matter what i say and how much documentation i have, it would be easier, less stressful and less a waste of time to just ignore the comments of those who choose to argue.

There is one useful aspect to the constant arguers. They keep this poll up on the front page where it continues to get more votes. While the ratio's have changed slightly, there is still an overwhelming number of respondents who prefer the new rules to the 5th ed rules. while the number who hate it has remained virtually the same the entire time, at just 5%.


Yes bring on as many mathematicians as possible so they will define love and hate here /facepalm

Really this has just got strange, either I'm writing in a manner that it is hard to understand or you don't read my posts as you don't even seem to get a grip on what I'm trying to tell you. I question your methodology, the very connection between your stated intent and wording of your questions, last but not least the arrogance you invalidate the critics with having only this flawed poll to back you up. I do not question the number of votes which if isolated would statisticaly be sufficient, assuming your poll had any sense from the start - which is basicaly what I try to discuss.

I'm trying the last time to reason with you, maybe there will be some substance in your post instead of "I'd bring a science council here and prove my point but I won't and in the meantime won't adress any particular points about my forum poll because it's enough to state that I'm right". Oh, and don't forget to mention how I'm new here as the post count and join date surely speak for themselves in any discussion. Anyway I'll just ask you three questions:

- is there a possibility that similar poll but posted in the different section of the forum would give you different percentages positive vs negative?
- is there a possibility that with different wording of questions you would get different percentages positive vs negative?
- would randomisation of the sample give more credit to your results assuming the same number of respondents?

Btw I never stated that your results do not reflect reality, only that I see too many flaws in it to use it as a proof. See, I'd even like to know whether a community like this one is positive about a new edition or not and no result would have an emotional impact on me. Also I "love" (like really love) the artwork in the new book, I "hate" some painting schemes GW uses to present miniatures, I "love" focus fire, I "hate" random charge, I "love" 3+ reserves, I "hate" warlord traits etc, another few things you seem to not understand.



From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.

A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.

How could I look away?

 
   
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On moon miranda.

sennacherib wrote:
I couldnt agree more. Dakka is filled with those who love to argue and carrying on a discussion with them is impossible. Thus the best course of action is not to respond. I thought about wasting time and involving one of my friends who has a PhD in Mathmatics, and has taught stats for years, but no matter what i say and how much documentation i have, it would be easier, less stressful and less a waste of time to just ignore the comments of those who choose to argue.
It's likely your PhD friend would have told you your poll is statistically worthless however as well

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
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Unfortunately your poll has an integrated bias which you freely admit, and your posted choices reflect that. Glad you and others enjoy the game, but please don't pretend your poll has any merit beyond reasserting your own opinion.
   
 
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