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Good evening Dakka. So, I have recently been fighting, and preparing to fight a certain Grey Knight player at my LGS. I've been thinking about a Hestan/Sternguard themed list, and was wondering what the best way to run Sternguard would be in a 1500 game?

How about running 5 with Combi-Meltas with Vulkan in a Drop pod? That takes care of the dreadknight.

5 Combi-Meltas would work great. Lots of Flamers and Meltas would work too. In a Vulkan army you want to take as much flame as possible. In terms of Sternguards I would do 8 Combi-Meltas with 2 Heavy Flamers.

how about running 10 in a drop pod with vulkan, combat squad them out of the pod with vulkan joining one of the combat squads. Why settle for killing just a dreadknight first turn when you can add another target to the list?

Ok, yes I planned to run them with Vulkan. I just made a Shooty list, and will be trying them out in it. My opponent will be running Dragowing with Draigo, 10 man Paladin squad with Apoth, and other goodies, a Dreadknight, and a five man strike squad.

As a grey knight player, let me give you a idea of what i would do. Bring GK allies (i know what your thinking) 1 libby(buy him Warp rift) Init test, if failed model is removed no matter wounds/EW and Auto pens vehicles) + 1 squad of termies. Have them park and wait for the Paladin blob to come forth..Once close enough Keep a eye on distance, suddenly plop out your squad and lay down that flame template. Your going to take out quiet a few pallies i promise you. Their init is 4 so it's 50-50 but..it will happen. Assault them (make sure your termies have Halberds/hammers) and activate force weapons when you do assault him. Not saying it is rock solid, but it's how i have been playing and people HATE my list lol (Thanks again Rich!)

Arrathon wrote:As a grey knight player, let me give you a idea of what i would do. Bring GK allies (i know what your thinking) 1 libby(buy him Warp rift) Init test, if failed model is removed no matter wounds/EW and Auto pens vehicles) + 1 squad of termies. Have them park and wait for the Paladin blob to come forth..Once close enough Keep a eye on distance, suddenly plop out your squad and lay down that flame template. Your going to take out quiet a few pallies i promise you. Their init is 4 so it's 50-50 but..it will happen. Assault them (make sure your termies have Halberds/hammers) and activate force weapons when you do assault him. Not saying it is rock solid, but it's how i have been playing and people HATE my list lol (Thanks again Rich!)

Firstly, the element of surprise you are adding to your assessment doesn't actually exist in the game unless your opponent is an idiot; you can't just plop out your squad as you call it. Secondly, I4 is not a 50/50 test, there is a 33% chance of failure only. As for assaulting Paladins with regular Terminators; not going to work so well, as the Paladins still have a 2+ save, plus Draigo is in the unit and can tank the crap out of them.

To the OP, Sternguard aren't going to touch Draigowing unless you get a good drop and even then it is a risk. Say you get to drop on a side that Draigo isn't on, the unit LOS half of your wounds to Draigo, and then he saves a third on his shield, and is Eternal Warrior so you'll need to get 4 wounds on him. Rough math says you hit 7 times with your 8 Combi-Meltas after the re-roll, and wound 6 times. 3 go to Draigo, who takes one wound. Of the other 3, one is saved on the invul. and the rest kil two Paladin outright. Then the other 8 and Draigo assault you and pound you to little bits. You best bet to taking him on is long ranged firepower that preferably insta-kills; I suggest either 3 Predators or 3 Vindicators.

Thanks guys! I also plan to have the Sternguard combat squad and take care of the Strike squad of five men, and the Dreadknight. Then I plan on pouring mass amounts of firepower into the Paladin blob. BTW here is my list so far: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/469431.page

Against GK in general, the combi-meltas are a good idea. Against Draigowing though? No, for the reasons Godless mentions. Against this, if I absolutely had to run Sternguard, I would actually run a full squad of 10 (split into two combat squads as you come out of the pod, to get either one unit still free or force a disordered charge). Keep them plain with standard bolters to keep the cost down and use the rounds that wound on a 2+. This will force a lot of saves, some of which are bound to fail.

Unfortunately, it won't be anywhere near enough to actually put the unit down, so you need more in there. Maybe run with Tacticals instead of Sternguard, to make it even cheaper. I don't know... I can't really think of a decent way of making it work without focussing an entire list on drop pods and having 4/5 units to throw down there.

Godless has it right. Also at 1500 points he is not going to bring many models. You can just be everywhere at once, combat squading meltas with vindi's and such. He can only roflstomp 1 unit at a time if you keep your distance.

True, my plan is to Drop pod Sternguard with Vulkan close to him, Combat squad them, use one to Melta the Dreadknight (Takes care of huge problem), and the other to rapid fire Hellfire rounds on the five man strike squad. He will then be footslogging the paladin blob, so I can pour all my fire into them.

Iron Father 575 wrote:True, my plan is to Drop pod Sternguard with Vulkan close to him, Combat squad them, use one to Melta the Dreadknight (Takes care of huge problem), and the other to rapid fire Hellfire rounds on the five man strike squad. He will then be footslogging the paladin blob, so I can pour all my fire into them.

This isn't a good plan at all. Aside from the fact that 5 TL Meltas don't kill a Dreadknight outright on average, you are assuming he will place his models for your advantage. What if the Strikes and Knight aren't together, or worse still, what if either is near the Paladin unit?

It's not TOO bad an idea with a minor edit - get two Sternguard units instead of combat squadding one, if you can spare the extra Elite slot. That'll allow you to drop-pod them separately, and get a 3rd empty pod from another unit so you can get them both on turn 1.

The Dreadknight might not be dropped from the melta shots, but it WILL be hurt, and that makes it a lot easier for another unit to finish it off. Plus, if it decides to attack the Sternguard that's a turn it's not advancing on the rest of your army. So, still worth doing if you ask me.

It's not a massive issue if either Sternguard unit ends up too close to the Paladin unit, as long as they land behind it. That way, even if they charge and you waste a turn where you can't fire at them with the rest of your force, they haven't advanced any closer to you either.

Hey guys. Would Ten Melta shots from ten Sternguard be worth it on the Dreadknight, or should I just combat-squad them? The Dreadknight will cause a lot of damage if let loose. Assuming this is in a Big Guns never Tire mission, that will be first blood, linebreaker, and a killpoint for the Heavy support Dreadknight being killed. (Assuming I get first turn)

I second the 2 pods idea, you can always drop them at the same time.

You wouldn't get the points for linebreaker unless they survived to the end, would you? So its not the best plan for a 10 man unit (partially) dedicated to anti-tank (partially because of special ammo, which isn't too good against pallies with an apothecary). 2 5-man units (one melta for the dreadknight, one flamer or plasma for the GKSS) is a better idea I think. Just make sure if you are dropping to hit the GKSS they aren't in a rhino, because if they are then you have to kill that before you can get to them inside (And if they are out of LOS, you'll only be able to shoot your sternguard at the rhino, which would suck)

The thing is that he never takes any tank. And if I let the Dreadknight survive for that long, he would just Shunt over, wait a turn, then wreck havoc through my position. I guess I could fire my Meltas on my Tac squads, but would lose something important in the process.

What's the GK player normally run? Aside from a Dreadknight that is.

Sternguard already have anti-marine shooting built in. Ap3 bolter shots are quite nasty against expensive GK PA.

Thanks Grey Templar for checking in. He will certainly be running Draigo, a full Paladin squad of ten with goodies like Apoth, Hammers, etc. a Strike squad of five men, and a Dreadknight all in 1500. So a lot of 2+ armour saves.

Hmmm, in that case Sternguard may not be the best bet.

Assault Terminators will be a better use of the Elite slot. Paladins one hard melee counter is the TH/SS.

Grey Knights are predominantly infantry and with the exception of the Paladins. AC3.

The answer is plasma rather than melta. Combi-plasma on the sternguard may be the way to go. Load up your troop squads with plasma and maybe even plasma cannons.
A unit of ML devastators should counter his long-ranged rifleman dreads. You should give as good as you get with plasma as the basis of your force.

I do like the idea of Vulkan and the assault termies. It pops paladins despite their having two wounds.

Another cost-effect anti-paladin unit may be a devastator armed with multi-meltas. You match him in the magic 24" range and you pop any paladin and taking 4 S8 AP1 hits should be enought to be a pain to any dreadknight shunting towards you.

A librarian may be a good investment to make his psychic abilities less automatic.

An AGL with quad flakk gun or icarus may be a good purchase for the defensive abilities.

The other thought is to fight fire with fire... An inquisitor and GK techmarine with a srike squad and maybe even a vindicare assassin to pick off his key people.

Have you considered Enfeeble?

Or, use the Sternguard to Crush the weaker elements and send an Allied Grenadier Inquisitor with axe wielding DCA's at Dragio and his paladin chums. You go for Hammerhand, psyk + rad grenades and those DCA ID the Paladins. No 2+, no FNP.

DAaddict wrote:A unit of ML devastators should counter his long-ranged rifleman dreads.

What Dreads? They aren't in the list the OP is facing.

DAaddict wrote:Another cost-effect anti-paladin unit may be a devastator armed with multi-meltas. You match him in the magic 24" range and you pop any paladin and taking 4 S8 AP1 hits should be enought to be a pain to any dreadknight shunting towards you.

Paladins don't care about these guys because Draigo tanks all the shots, and the Dreadknight only takes 2 wounds on average from their shooting.

Razerous wrote:Have you considered Enfeeble?

A power he is not guaranteed to get? How is that a good counter?

Razerous wrote:Or, use the Sternguard to Crush the weaker elements and send an Allied Grenadier Inquisitor with axe wielding DCA's at Dragio and his paladin chums. You go for Hammerhand, psyk + rad grenades and those DCA ID the Paladins. No 2+, no FNP.

Except for the part where the Paladins strike first and kill pretty much all of them, while Draigo tanks the wounds left over. Besides, allying such a unit into such an army doesn't fit, so is a bad tactical choice and weakens the overall synergy of the army.

I have a list prepared, if you guys would like to take a look at it. I have played Termies against him before, but haven't tried them with Vulkan, which might be a good idea.

Iron Father 575 wrote:I have a list prepared, if you guys would like to take a look at it. I have played Termies against him before, but haven't tried them with Vulkan, which might be a good idea.

Sure, post it.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:Except for the part where the Paladins strike first

How many swords/halberds are the Paladins rocking?

Razerous wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:Except for the part where the Paladins strike first

How many swords/halberds are the Paladins rocking?

Well he said his mate runs a unit of 10, so I'd say at least 6, and then there's Draigo as well.

How about running them with Lysander? You get to reroll missed special ammo shots including on overwatch. He makes envy one think twice about close combat. And he allows you to manipulate Los to make them/him more survivable.

Pony_law wrote:
He makes envy one think twice about close combat.

Do you really think Draigo and 10 Paladins are going to be scared of Lysander and 10 Sternguard?

Yeah, Lysander and 10 Terminators maybe. Paladins arn't going to be phased by Lysander and a few PA marines.

Depending on how the paladins are kitted out, why wouldn't they be scared of Lysander and a full boat sternguard unit? Your putting on average like 11-14 saves on the unit initially with 2+ hellfire rounds. Then Lysander kills draigo while your sternguard die to paladins. Then Lysander continues to eat 1 paladin at a time thanks to challenges. Or potentially kills more than 1 if they deny the challenge thanks to instant death. And unless they're all equipped with hammers Lysander is taking 2+ saves against everything... And I didn't even think about overwatch.