Daemons of Chaos Rumours (Fantasy & 40k) - First post updated with release list, prices, and pics!

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**blood reaper**

I'm hoping I can take options in the Daemons codex without having to roll on a chart and hope I get what I'm wanting, because otherwise, that would mean I could never really control my army. Hopefully, Phil Kelly isn't taking Chaos too literally.

**gorgon**

There's gonna be a TON of speed in this book. The Daemon of Slaanesh rules will make Slaanesh very fast. We know Drones are jump cavalry. Even Beasts of Nurgle are Beasts (albeit with S&P). Add that's in addition to all the existing jump, jetbike, and chariot units. Could Crushers become cavalry also? Obviously, a lot of this stuff competes for slots, but talk about a wealth of options for speed.

**AresX8**

Natfka just posted some details:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/chaos-daemon-information-instability.html#more

"Daemonic: Instability
If you lose 25% of your unit at the end of your close combat phase then you must take a leadership test on 2d6. You subtract the amount of models lost to the overall leadership total. If you pass then nothing happens otherwise you lose wounds equal to the amount you failed the combat by.

For the case of shooting then the daemons count as being fearless.
If a herald joins a unit then the unit is not effected by daemonic Instability"

"Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage. (They are really expensive)"

I wonder how Monstrous Beasts are going to work.

**pretre**

Natfka wrote:Heralds: have +1 to weapon skill, wounds, initiative, attack and have LD 9-10
Soul grinder has sky fire in profile (220pts base)

All daemon units have a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
There is upgrades to give heralds 3+ and even 2+ save (although it is very expensive)

Greater daemons are beasts – the keeper of secrets have 6 base attacks and gains more attacks for every kill. She also has rending.

Blood thirster- has amazing stat line:
WS BS S T W A I LD SV
10 5 8 7 5 5 5 10 4+

Re- rolls all failed to hit and to wound.
All greater daemons have the option for 2+ save – although it is on the 65pts+ mark

Fate weaver can make a enemy hero turn into a spawn if they fail an invulnerble save.
Still re-rolls saves (but only invulnerable – no longer armour)

Basic troops stay the same, points have been reduced minimal
Bloodletters – reduced by a point
Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points but are now strength 4 on the charge.
Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points a model but have lost feel no pain but gained shrouded.
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves.

Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage. (They are really expensive)
Beast of nurgle are vastly improved – and have gone up in cost by 30+ points

Physic powers are a bit to random and can hurt you badly if you roll badly
Nurgle is the best of a bad bunch.

**Goat**

I really hope Chaos Space Marine IC can join CD units. Khorne juggy lord in a bloodcrusher unit makes me giddy.

**Hatemonger**

Weren't the iPad versions of the books released already? I would have thought someone would do a summary/rules dump by now, but I haven't seen anything that comprehensive.

- H8

**pretre**

Goat wrote:
I really hope Chaos Space Marine IC can join CD units. Khorne juggy lord in a bloodcrusher unit makes me giddy.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but isn't that prohibited in the CSM codex?

**Janthkin**

pretre wrote:
Goat wrote:
I really hope Chaos Space Marine IC can join CD units. Khorne juggy lord in a bloodcrusher unit makes me giddy.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but isn't that prohibited in the CSM codex?

The current C: Daemons FAQ bans allies from joining a Codex Daemons unit. I don't recall a similar limitation in CSM, but I admit to not looking for one.

**pretre**

Janthkin wrote:
The current C: Daemons FAQ bans allies from joining a Codex Daemons unit. I don't recall a similar limitation in CSM, but I admit to not looking for one.

That is probably what I am thinking of.

**Experiment 626**

Pink Horrors go up 2pts/model, WTF?!
If they're exactly the same as they currently are, only trading proper shooting for psychic powers, talk about a hugely unnessesary nerf...

**MandalorynOranj**

pretre wrote:
Natfka wrote:
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves.

Hmm, so 19 points a pop, but with 3+ invul? That seems fair, I wonder if they also got BS4? Probably not...

EDIT: Hadn''t thought about their new shooting role. If they lost Warpfire or it changed to not so much volume of fire, that's going to be bad. Hoping they keep it but also gain Brotherhood of Psykers. It's in the main rulebook now and that seems to be similar to how the rumors are describing it (but with a few changes).

**pretre**

Experiment 626 wrote:
Pink Horrors go up 2pts/model, WTF?!
If they're exactly the same as they currently are, only trading proper shooting for psychic powers, talk about a hugely unnessesary nerf...

Umm. Did you miss the 'have better saves'. Also, aren't Horrors the ones rumored to get mastery levels, plural?

**40k-noob**

pretre wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
Pink Horrors go up 2pts/model, WTF?!
If they're exactly the same as they currently are, only trading proper shooting for psychic powers, talk about a hugely unnessesary nerf...
Umm. Did you miss the 'have better saves'. Also, aren't Horrors the ones rumored to get mastery levels, plural?

The Battle Report in the WD gave the impression that the more models in the Horrors unit the better it is (psychic power wise at least)

Wonder if they will be something like GK's where they are all psykers and can cast stuff (i.e. like Hammerhand but a Daemon version)

**Chad Warden**

Horrors are Daemons of Tzeentch so get a re-roll of 1 to failed saves

No way do they have a 3++ as well

**Pedro Kantor**

That would seem to be the case.The WD battle report has them dropping a level through casualty loss.

**gorgon**

Chad Warden wrote:
Horrors are Daemons of Tzeentch so get a re-roll of 1 to failed saves

No way do they have a 3++ as well

Perhaps "better" as in not the now-standard 5++. So a 4++. It'll probably be hard to judge a points increase until we see the rest of the book. For instance, what if Tzeentch got some kind of access to Divination powers as per the previous rumors?

**Experiment 626**

pretre wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
Pink Horrors go up 2pts/model, WTF?!
If they're exactly the same as they currently are, only trading proper shooting for psychic powers, talk about a hugely unnessesary nerf...
Umm. Did you miss the 'have better saves'. Also, aren't Horrors the ones rumored to get mastery levels, plural?

By 'have better saves' likely still means they only have a 4++, which is exactly the same as their current save. 3++ would be too much of a good thing.
And yes, Mastery Levels, which decreese as the unit gets shot-up. And could also mean Warpfire is now a psychic power, which can fail or else be stopped outright by 'Deny the Witch'.

Horrors are currently overcosted by about a point or two as being T3/4++ they still die in absolute droves to any kind of dedicated enemy shooting. Going up in pts AND potentially getting way worse shooting? (which could also fail to work AND hurt them at the same time...)
I'd say that's an unfair nerf.

**pretre**

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'd say that's an unfair nerf.

It may be but it is hard to know without seeing the rest of the rules.

**kronk**

Sounds bad for the horrors in a vacuum, but I'll wait until I have the book in my hands before passing judgement.

My judgement on the Nurgle fly models stands, though. Oh, I've judged them!

**Experiment 626**

pretre wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
I'd say that's an unfair nerf.

It may be but it is hard to know without seeing the rest of the rules.

kronk wrote:
Sounds bad for the horrors in a vacuum, but I'll wait until I have the book in my hands before passing judgement.

My judgement on the Nurgle fly models stands, though. Oh, I've judged them!

True, we'll have to just wait and see to know exactly how everything turns out.

But for myself it's fething scary as gak since I have a full mono-Tzeentch army that typically fields at least 36 Horrors! (and only 9 Flamers + upto 9 Screamers)

**Just Dave**

Wasn't their talk of Blue Horrors too? Either way, I'd be more worried for the Bloodletters, personally.

**blood reaper**

pretre wrote:
Natfka wrote:
Basic troops stay the same, points have been reduced minimal
Bloodletters – reduced by a point
Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points but are now strength 4 on the charge.
Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points a model but have lost feel no pain but gained shrouded.
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves.

If this is true.....

Feth you Phil Kelly, you ruined this too? Stop ruining things. I understand I have to spam Nurgle and Heldrakes, but now this? What is it with Kelly?

So, Bloodletters are still horrible, Horrors are still OK, Plague Bearers seem fine and the Bloodthirster is a tad odd.

**matphat**

blood reaper wrote:
pretre wrote:
Natfka wrote:
Basic troops stay the same, points have been reduced minimal
Bloodletters – reduced by a point
Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points but are now strength 4 on the charge.
Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points a model but have lost feel no pain but gained shrouded.
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves.

Feth you Phil Kelly, you ruined this too? Stop ruining things. I understand I have to spam Nurgle and Heldrakes, but now this? What is it with Kelly?

Yeah! Flip out man! Yeahhhhh!

**blood reaper**

I probably should have noted I'm joking.

**gorgon**

Experiment 626 wrote:
pretre wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
Pink Horrors go up 2pts/model, WTF?!
If they're exactly the same as they currently are, only trading proper shooting for psychic powers, talk about a hugely unnessesary nerf...
Umm. Did you miss the 'have better saves'. Also, aren't Horrors the ones rumored to get mastery levels, plural?

By 'have better saves' likely still means they only have a 4++, which is exactly the same as their current save. 3++ would be too much of a good thing.
And yes, Mastery Levels, which decreese as the unit gets shot-up. And could also mean Warpfire is now a psychic power, which can fail or else be stopped outright by 'Deny the Witch'.

Horrors are currently overcosted by about a point or two as being T3/4++ they still die in absolute droves to any kind of dedicated enemy shooting. Going up in pts AND potentially getting way worse shooting? (which could also fail to work AND hurt them at the same time...)
I'd say that's an unfair nerf.

Daemon of Tzeentch lets you reroll failed saves on "1". So that effectively puts them between a 3++ and a 4++.

Again, given that it SEEMS as though Kelly is driving players toward fewer MCs and more horde-y armies, there's some reason to think Horrors are going to benefit in other ways.

**skarsol**

Hatemonger wrote:
Weren't the iPad versions of the books released already? I would have thought someone would do a summary/rules dump by now, but I haven't seen anything that comprehensive.

- H8

Just looked, still on Pre-order in US store.

**ceorron**

I wonder how furies have changed. I'm hoping for a more legend of the overfiend feel. In other words more gritty and real, less fantasy.

Hey I can dream can't I?

**undertow**

gorgon wrote:
Again, given that it SEEMS as though Kelly is driving players toward fewer MCs and more horde-y armies, there's some reason to think Horrors are going to benefit in other ways.

The problem for me is that MCs are one of the main things that attracted me to Daemons in the first place. It seems like we're being encouraged to run Heralds, which really makes me sad.

**blood reaper**

ceorron wrote:
I wonder how furies have changed. I'm hoping for a more legend of the overfiend feel. In other words more gritty and real, less fantasy.

Hey I can dream can't I?

They'll be worse than a basic Space marine but cost the same as a basic Space Marine.

Because logic.

**gorgon**

undertow wrote:
gorgon wrote:
Again, given that it SEEMS as though Kelly is driving players toward fewer MCs and more horde-y armies, there's some reason to think Horrors are going to benefit in other ways.

The problem for me is that MCs are one of the main things that attracted me to Daemons in the first place. It seems like we're being encouraged to run Heralds, which really makes me sad.

They gotta change thing$ up for the exi$ting player$.

Either that comes in the form of desirable new units (see Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Knights, Darkshrouds, etc.) or in the form of composition shake-ups. I'm a Tyranid player, so I've been through plenty of the latter.