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skarsol wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
I'm glad Daemon Princes won't be stuck as HQ at least (The Blood Demon = Bloodthirster I presume) if those are true.

Gonna be one expensive list if you're getting a Greater Daemon and then stacking Daemon Princes.

Flying circus?

Wonder if there will finally be a Ku'gath model?

I'm REALLY hoping we don't see Daemons moving toward Horde builds. Daemons were my elite army. I already have Orks.

 matphat wrote:
I'm REALLY hoping we don't see Daemons moving toward Horde builds. Daemons were my elite army. I already have Orks.

It is more likely that you will be able to do either. From the sounds of it, Monster Mash / Flying Circus or Hordes of Chaos.

I like a lot of what I'm seeing here.

Flying circus????

 pretre wrote:

 matphat wrote:
I'm REALLY hoping we don't see Daemons moving toward Horde builds. Daemons were my elite army. I already have Orks.

It is more likely that you will be able to do either. From the sounds of it, Monster Mash / Flying Circus or Hordes of Chaos.

That would be much preferable.

UltraPrime wrote:
Flying circus????

As many flying MC as you can get in a list.

 pretre wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:
Flying circus????

As many flying MC as you can get in a list.

I'm not sure it'll be viable in the new Codex. Fateweaver was one of the things that made it all work, and him getting nerfed to 4++ is not great. Losing Eternal Warrior on greater Daemons is going to make putting that many points into a Flying Circus a risky proposition. Especially as some else pointed out earlier, if you get enfeebled and fail a grounding test, you're done.

The Changeling swapping stats? Especially Strength and Toughness! Good insurance for a large unit of Horrors against things like the Bloodthirster, Swarm Lord or Daemon Prince.

Get stuck in a Challenge with him and he'll inflict Instant Death on them.

 undertow wrote:

 pretre wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:
Flying circus????

As many flying MC as you can get in a list.

I'm not sure it'll be viable in the new Codex. Fateweaver was one of the things that made it all work, and him getting nerfed to 4++ is not great. Losing Eternal Warrior on greater Daemons is going to make putting that many points into a Flying Circus a risky proposition. Especially as some else pointed out earlier, if you get enfeebled and fail a grounding test, you're done.

/shrug

Have to wait and find out.

Now, I wonder if the Warpstorm chart will affect Daemons if you only have them as allies.

That could be huge.

 Sasori wrote:
Now, I wonder if the Warpstorm chart will affect Daemons if you only have them as allies.

That could be huge.

I imagine not.

 pretre wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Now, I wonder if the Warpstorm chart will affect Daemons if you only have them as allies.

That could be huge.

I imagine not.

Yeah, I didn't see the other page updated. Too bad.

Daemons are becoming more and more appealing as a primary army, rather than an allied detachment.

I read somewhere that the Warpstorm chart only applies if Chaos Daemons are your Primary Detachment.

 pretre wrote:
BOLS http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/02/monster-chaos-daemons-rumors-in-german.html

A lot of characters don't buy equiment. They buy gifts in three different levels for points. What exacly these gifts are will be choosen random (D6). Roll at the same time as for the Warlord trait. One model can't have a gift twice (reroll), but you can have a gift more than one time in your army. You can replace one of the gifts with the 0. You gain a weapon or artefact for it (just one example given in the german text - Blade with Ap2, mastercrafted and special weapon).

This alone makes me question even buying this Codex. If I can't even customise my characters to my liking, something I love to do, why even take non named Heralds? This isn't "cinematic", this is just a big feth you.

Goddammit Phil Kelly, you ruined this too?

A more accurate translation:

Daemons:
Daemon belong to a specific god and have USR Hatred for their opposing god (Nurgle/Tzeentch, Khorne/Slaanesh). Herald of one god cannot join a unit from another god.
Khorne USR: Rage, Re-Roll Charge distance
Tzeentch: +3 LD for Psykic tests, Re-Roll Saves of 1
Nurgle: Slow and Purposefull, Shrouded, Defensive Grenades
Slaanesh: Rending, Move thru Cover, +3” to run distance for infantry, +6 “to run distance for cavalry (only if the whole unit is cavalry), +3” Flat out for chariots

Daemonic Instability:
Units with this USR may not be joined by units without this USR. Unit passes all Fear, Pinning and Moral tests. If a Unit with this USR looses in Close Combat, it must test for Instability on 2D6.
If the test is failed, the Unit takes wounds equal to the difference between its LD value and the roll.
If you roll Double 1, all wounds lost in this combat are restored. Place lost models back on the table
If you roll Double 6, the whole unit is removed from play.

Warlord Table:
War Lord Table:
1) Warlord gains Instant Death USR
2) Warlord and his unit gain Hatred (Everything) USR
3) As long as the War Lord is alive, your opponent test for Fear at -1 LD
4) As Long as the War Lord is alive, units within 12” of the War Lord may re-roll Daemonic Instability
5) As long as the War Lord is alive, you may re-roll results on the Warp Storm Table
6) Units with the Daemon USR may Deep Strike within 6” of the War Lord without scatter.

Warp Storm Table:
The Warp Storm Table is only used when Chaos Daemons are your Primary Detachment. Roll on the Warp Storm Table at the beginning of the Daemon Players Shooting Phase
2) The Storm is receding: All units with the Daemonic Instability USR (Friend and Foe) immediately test for Daemonic Instability
3) Punishment of the Gods: A random character model with Daemonic Instability (Friend or Foe) immediately tests for Daemonic Instability on 3D6. Wounds suffered in this manner can only be allocated to that model.
4) Warp Quake: All models with the Daemon USR suffer a -1 penalty to their saves until the next roll on this chart (friend or foe)
5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ).
6) Glorious Rot: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Tzeentch or Mark of Tzeentch or enemy unit not locked in combat. On a roll of a 6, the unit suffers D6 S4 AP3 Poison (4+) hits. Vehicles are hit on Side Armor.
7) Calm Warp: Nothing happens
8) The Dark Prince Thirsts: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Khorne USR or Mark of Khorne or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, the unit suffers D6 S6 AP- Ignore Cover, Rending hits.
9) Khornes Rage: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Slaanesh USR or Mark of Slaanesh or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, center a small blast marker on a model of your choice in the unit and scatter 2D6. Models under the blast template suffer a S8 AP 3 Pinning hit.
10) Warp Flood: All units with the Daemon USR gain +1 to all saving throws until the next roll on the Warp Storm Table (friend or foe)
11) Daemonic Possesion: A random enemy non-vehicle .Psyker that is not a daemon must pass a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed, the Psyker is removed from play. Place a Herald of a god of your choice within 6" of the removed model. The Herald does not receive any upgrades.
12) Blessing of the Warp: A new unit of 2D6+3 Bloodletters, Pink Horrors, Daemonetts or Plaguebearers (your choice) arrives via deep strike.

All Daemons have a 6+ Armor Save. Some daemons (for example Bloodthirster have a 3+)
Bloodthirster lost EW
Skulltaker has EW and 3+ Armor
Lord Of Change is Level 2 Psyker and Flying FMC
11-15 Pink Horrors generate 2 Warp Points, 16-20 generate 3
Fateweaver has a 4++, Level 4 Psyker. He knows all Tzeentch powers. Right Head knows one power from Pyromancy and Divination, Left Head knows one power from Telepathy and Pyromancy. Declare which head you want to use at the beginning of each turn. May re-roll a single D6 each phase.
Blue Scribes are not Psykers, but generate one power each turn from the main rule book. They can use that power without rolling a psykic test.
The Changeling may exchange any of his stats with an enemy non-vehicle model stat in base contact (WS, S, W, I, A) until the end of the turn
Great Unclean One is Psyker Level 1, Biomancy and Nurgle
Beasts of Nurgle can charge in the opponents turn.
Ku'Gath can regenerate wounds on Nurgling Swarms
Epi only effects Daemons of Nurgle within 6" and tally works based on unsaved wounds caused by Daemons of Nurgle:
7+: +1 Strength
14+: +1 Toughness
21+: 2+ poison
28+: 4+ Feel No Pain
Keeper of Secrets has Prefered Enemy Eldar and Dark Eldar. Psyker Level 1, Telepathy and Slaanesh
The Mask re-rolls all failed saves. It has multiple different dances
There are Chaos Furies
Flamers of Tzeench: If they caused a wound, take a test every turn for that unit. If the test is failed, you take D3 wounds, if you pass the test, you gain FNP (6+)

Skull Cannon: If you assault a unit that has been hit by a shot from the Skull Cannon, you suffer no initiative penalty for assaulting thru difficult terrain.

Axe of Khorne: Instant Death on a roll of 6 to wound.
Mutated Warpknife (Tzeentch): If it kills a enemy Character or MC, that model is turned into a Chaos Spawn on a roll of 2+
Warp Poisoning: If a Character or MC looses its last wound due to a Close Combat attack from the Staff of Change, all units within D6 inches (friend and foe) suffer D6 hits at S5 AP -
Mace of Disease: Models that suffer an unsaved wound from this weapon must pass a Toughness Test or suffer an additional wound. No saves of any kind can be taken to prevent this additional wound.

Many Characters cannot buy equipment, but can buy Minor, Major and Legendary enhancements for a certain point cost. These are randomly determined at the same time as Warlord Traits are rolled. You may have the same enhancements more than once on each character, but the random result can only be applied once to each character. Re-roll doubles. Rolls can be exchanged for special weapons.

Minor Boons:
Result 0: (May replace roll on the chart)
Magical Weapon: Etherknife (AP2, Mastercrafted, Specialist Weapon)
Daemon of Khorne may take an Axe of Khorne instead
Daemon of Tzeench may take a Staff of Change instead
Daemon of Nurgle mau take a Mace of Disease instead
Daemon of Slaanesh may take a Ghost Sword(?) instead


Daemon Princes:
Skarbrand and Bloodthirster make Khorne DP Heavy Support
Fateweaver and Lord of Change make Tzeentch DP Heavy Support
Ku'Gath and Great Unclean One make DP of Nurgle Heavy Support
Keeper of Secrets makes DP of Slaanesh Heavy Support

DP costs 145 pts
Khorne +15 pts
Tzeentch +25 pts
Nurgle +15 pts
Slaanesh +10 pts
Daemonic Flight 40 pts
May take up to 50 points of gifts
none khorne DPs can buy Psyker levels up to level 3 at 25pts/lvl

Heralds may still be taken 2 per HQ slot. Every Herald adds a Boon to the unit he joins.

Icons can improve certain effects. Instruments can "summon" reserves or modify the result of the Warp Storm Table.

Thanks for the translation, Mohoc!

Well, the Warlord trait table is still pretty awesome, only number 3 is a real dud. Every table has to have at least one.

So eppy's tally only works on stuff within 6"? Ouch! I like how GW hypes up Nurgle for CSM, then slaps Nurgle daemons down. Lol.

Toughness five Great Unclean Ones for the win!!

 blood reaper wrote:

 pretre wrote:
BOLS http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/02/monster-chaos-daemons-rumors-in-german.html

A lot of characters don't buy equiment. They buy gifts in three different levels for points. What exacly these gifts are will be choosen random (D6). Roll at the same time as for the Warlord trait. One model can't have a gift twice (reroll), but you can have a gift more than one time in your army. You can replace one of the gifts with the 0. You gain a weapon or artefact for it (just one example given in the german text - Blade with Ap2, mastercrafted and special weapon).

This alone makes me question even buying this Codex. If I can't even customise my characters to my liking, something I love to do, why even take non named Heralds? This isn't "cinematic", this is just a big feth you.

Goddammit Phil Kelly, you ruined this too?

This is basically how I feel. I can't even make my own army list any more, I just roll on some tables and stuff comes out.

Huh... That sounds like D&D actually. I thought I was playing 40k.

updated translation above.

Ugh I was hoping for a fun Nurgle ally for my CSM :(

CleverAntics wrote:
Toughness five Great Unclean Ones for the win!!

Eh...?! They are not toughness 5, are they!?

I'm really liking the Warpstorm chart. It's not NEAR as bad as I thought it was going to be. It adds some downsides, but a lot of upsides.

Between that and the significantly better Warlord Traits, CSMs may end up second fiddle to the Daemons.

Hm.... interesting leaks.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm really liking the Warpstorm chart. It's not NEAR as bad as I thought it was going to be. It adds some downsides, but a lot of upsides.

Between that and the significantly better Warlord Traits, CSMs may end up second fiddle to the Daemons.

What I like about it, is that it seems to discourage mixing the god's of the army up too much, as for each additional god, you have a bit more of a chance of getting them blasted by an irritable god, who doesn't like them

Evileyes wrote:
Eh...?! They are not toughness 5, are they!?

No, no. I was giving mere speculation based on the supposed toughness four Plaguebearers, as it'd seem most logical. So far, it seems Kelly's butchered Nurgle; at least as far as Plaguebearers go. If the new hotness is -1 toughness for Nurgle, then so it shall be!

Evileyes wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm really liking the Warpstorm chart. It's not NEAR as bad as I thought it was going to be. It adds some downsides, but a lot of upsides.

Between that and the significantly better Warlord Traits, CSMs may end up second fiddle to the Daemons.

What I like about it, is that it seems to discourage mixing the god's of the army up too much, as for each additional god, you have a bit more of a chance of getting them blasted by an irritable god, who doesn't like them

Yeah, it has some really crushing downsides, but the upsides are pretty great. I think it's pretty fluffy, and it seems like it will work out pretty well gameplay wise.

CleverAntics wrote:

Evileyes wrote:
Eh...?! They are not toughness 5, are they!?

No, no. I was giving mere speculation based on the supposed toughness four Plaguebearers, as it'd seem most logical. So far, it seems Kelly's butchered Nurgle; at least as far as Plaguebearers go. If the new hotness is -1 toughness for Nurgle, then so it shall be!

Rumor I saw on them, they were toughness 8, which was why I was so shocked xD