Daemons of Chaos Rumours (Fantasy & 40k) - First post updated with release list, prices, and pics!

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**Goat**

So if all of your units have banner/instrument you basically daisy chain all of your reserves right onto the field? Now I wonder if you can fail the reserve roll with a unit then still force them to come in via the instrument. So you basically can never fail reserves if you wish, as long as at least one unit passes the reserve roll.

**xole**

I'm imagining a nurgle drone taking a dangerous terrain test as his little friend down under banging into a rock.

**skarsol**

It doesn't chain. It triggers on passing the roll and the 2nd unit doesn't roll. It also specifically excludes units that have failed their roll already.

**Sasori**

wuestenfux wrote:
By the way, the new Nurgle FA unit is cavalry and jump pack. We double checked. Seems a bit weird.

No, it's JET pack and Cavalry.

**ZebioLizard2**

Just realized you only take ONE locus, and even with multiple heralds only the highest works. What the hell kelly? Half those powers aren't worth taking over others!

**skarsol**

If they're not worth taking, then no great loss that they don't stack, neh?

**ZebioLizard2**

skarsol wrote:
If they're not worth taking, then no great loss that they don't stack, neh?

Actually what I was meaning, was that they would be worthwhile if they could be taken together, but with being only able to take one that drastically reduces the use of some of them down to specific choices.

**Sasori**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Just realized you only take ONE locus, and even with multiple heralds only the highest works. What the hell kelly? Half those powers aren't worth taking over others!

I don' think you would generally take more than one Locus though.

**Mohoc**

Sasori wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Just realized you only take ONE locus, and even with multiple heralds only the highest works. What the hell kelly? Half those powers aren't worth taking over others!

I don' think you would generally take more than one Locus though.

I thought it was one Locus per Herald.

**skarsol**

It's one locus per herald, one locus per unit, regardless of the number of heralds, highest takes precedence.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

How often would you want more than one Herald in a single unit though ?

**skarsol**

You dont since their loci don't stack.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:

-Vanilla Greater Daemons are much better than named ones. This is mainly because you can up their psyker level, and take Daemonic Gifts. I expect GDs will almost always be rolling twice on the greater Daemon chart, and upping their Psyker level.

DP: 9 5 6 5 4 8 5 9 - for 145
KOS: 9 6 6 6 5 10 6 9 - for 170

KoS is already psycher level 1, so that matches the DP cost (25). Both can go to Psycher level 3 for 50 more points. Both can take 50 points in gifts. Daemon of Slaanesh is another 10 points already paid for in the KoS. Prince has the options of flight and armor, for more points. KoS is a much better deal if you don't need a flyer/3+/Biomancy.

**schadenfreude**

Sasori wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
I'm surprised by the screamer thing. Are their normal attacks still AP2? Or no AP at all? I ask because everyone else who's seen the codex said there was no change to the horrors but they could have misinterpretted the trade all attacks for one part of the rule.

Screamers regular attacks are AP -. They can trade all of their attacks for 1 Strength 5, AP 2 Armorbane one. The move over vector slashing thing is still the same though.

My initial impression so far:

-Vanilla Greater Daemons are much better than named ones. This is mainly because you can up their psyker level, and take Daemonic Gifts. I expect GDs will almost always be rolling twice on the greater Daemon chart, and upping their Psyker level.

-Only the Changeling and Horrors are restricted to choosing from their God Lore. GUOs can take ML 3 and get 3 rolls on biomancy....

-Horrors are pretty bad, even with a herald. They DO NOT go up in Mastery level as the squad size increases, they only gain Warpcharges. So, you only get one power, and the only one you would ever take is the Primaris. Even with 3 Warp Charges, and the Strength
boost from the Locus, and a rerolls to hit from the Primaris Divination, you're only on average killing 4 marines. Warpflame is also terrible.

-Nurgle seems to come out on top, as far as troops go. You can give them FNP with a locus, and the Herald with a Balesword can be pretty nasty in challenges.

- I think the Soulgrinder will be the go to Heavy support choice. Comes standard with a powerfist, and a 3 Shot autocannon that you can use Skyfire with. You can then choose to upgrade a Mawcannon, with 1 of three choices, to fit in with the rest of your list.

-Screamers are still good, just not as good. Flamers are still pretty good, just not as good. Bloodcrushers are T4 with 3W and Cav now. Time will tell if they are good.

-There is something for every god here. There really are not a lot of bad choices in this book. The Gift charts are actually really good. The best thing is you can always swap for a Primaris.

Horrors will be far from useless.

Horrors in ruins + area terrain or behind an aegis+ go to ground= cannot be shot off an objective without shots that ignore cover.

4+ cover goes to 2+ and Tzeentch deamons reroll 1s on failed cover saves=an average of 36 wounds to kill 1 horror=360 wounds needed to kill a 90 point scoring unit.

**Swara**

skarsol wrote:
You dont since their loci don't stack.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:

-Vanilla Greater Daemons are much better than named ones. This is mainly because you can up their psyker level, and take Daemonic Gifts. I expect GDs will almost always be rolling twice on the greater Daemon chart, and upping their Psyker level.

DP: 9 5 6 5 4 8 5 9 - for 145
KOS: 9 6 6 6 5 10 6 9 - for 170

KoS is already psycher level 1, so that matches the DP cost (25). Both can go to Psycher level 3 for 50 more points. Both can take 50 points in gifts. Daemon of Slaanesh is another 10 points already paid for in the KoS. Prince has the options of flight and armor, for more points. KoS is a much better deal if you don't need a flyer/3+/Biomancy.

He was talking about the normal greater daemons vs. the named ones. Like GUO versus Ku'gath.

**labmouse42**

Makumba wrote:nice but there are helldrakes too and it would suck to have an army which dies as soon as your opponent comes and he brings in 2-3 baledrakes.

I have no idea what you mean with that sentence. Are you trying to say that helldrakes are better than flamers?

Nakor The BlueRider wrote:Whats everyone takes on Daemons being Allies with CSM? With such cheap scoring units I can see a whole a lot of benefits. I do like the 9 Screamers + Herald on a Disc DeathStar running with CSM Bikes or Spawn to put the pressure on straight away

Daemons offer some really good deck-chair units. Plague bearers are smashingly good at squatting on objectives and going to ground. I would rather have them over cultists any day of the week.

Aside from that, daemons can offer some cheap bodies, and fast moving bodies to throw at your enemy.

Sasori wrote:-Horrors are pretty bad, even with a herald. They DO NOT go up in Mastery level as the squad size increases, they only gain Warpcharges. So, you only get one power, and the only one you would ever take is the Primaris. Even with 3 Warp Charges, and the Strength
boost from the Locus, and a rerolls to hit from the Primaris Divination, you're only on average killing 4 marines. Warpflame is also terrible.

I agree with most of your assements, but here we diverge.
Take 20 horrors. Add a herald, make him a level 2 psyker with exaulted locus of conjuration. Take the primary from divination and change. Cast prescience on the horror unit every turn from the herald, who gets 2 warp charge spells per turn.
Your horrors then shoot 4d6 STR 6 attacks hitting 75% of the time.
Your herald shoots 2d6 STR 6 attacks hitting 89% of the time.
You hit 16.73 times, you wound 13.94 times, and 4.64 MEQ die.

Your saying "Only kills 4 MEQ" but to get that same result, you would need to fire 41.55 bolter shots! Your saying that one squad of horrors + herald have as much firepower at 21 MEQ within rapid fire range. How is that bad again?

Since the horrors are STR 6 as well, your also a threat to vehicles - particular flyers. The horror unit will snap shot and hit flyers with ~6.3 STR 6 hits per turn. That's going to do some damage to night scythes,

Sasori wrote:-Nurgle seems to come out on top, as far as troops go. You can give them FNP with a locus, and the Herald with a Balesword can be pretty nasty in challenges.

I think slaanesh is also something to be feared. Daemonettes are moving ~13.5" a turn. On turn two, they will have a respectable assault range of 26.5" from their starting point. This means they will be on you by turn 2 or 3. That's a lot of rending attacks in your face.

**skarsol**

Ooooh, I play Slaanesh and we don't get one of those, so I guess that's where my confusion came from.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

labmouse42 wrote:
I think slaanesh is also something to be feared. Daemonettes are moving ~13.5" a turn. On turn two, they will have a respectable assault range of 26.5" from their starting point. This means they will be on you by turn 2 or 3. That's a lot of rending attacks in your face.

And seekers add 9"/turn to that + an attack and HoW for 3 points per...

**Mohoc**

My favorite so far is a LoC with Level 3 and Staff of Change.

**labmouse42**

No doubt. I'm putting 40 seekers on order next paycheck. At 12 points a model they are crazy.
Add in 2 heralds and you can have some pretty good facekicking in before the rest of the party shows up.

Speaking of heralds. Khorne Heralds on Juggernauts are sick.
For example, look at what a 110 point herald of Khorne gives you. It wields an AP2 weapon that causes ID on 'to wound' rolls of a 6.
WS...BS....S....T....W....I.....A....Ld....Sv
....7.....7.....5....5....3.....6....4.....8.....6
That statline and AP2 weapon is enough to make a C:SM captain cry himself to sleep at night.

I am curious to see what happens when I stick 2 of those in 2 squads of bloodletters, which are close on the heels of the 40 seekers mentioned earlier.

**skarsol**

labmouse42 wrote:
No doubt. I'm putting 40 seekers on order next paycheck. At 12 points a model they are crazy.
Add in 2 heralds and you can have some pretty good facekicking in before the rest of the party shows up.

Or outflank them and be fairly confident they'll get where they're needed at the same time as everyone else.

**labmouse42**

Outflanking is nice b/c it lets you get them where you want them to be.
It's not nice because you are assaulting on turn 3 at the earliest. If you could still assault from reserve it would be awesome.
That one turn with having "whatever daemonettes have" hanging in the wind could be very bad.

IMHO rending got a lot better in this edition. Or at least, it stayed as useful when power weapons were nurfed.

**skarsol**

You're assaulting turn 3, the same turn that your other units likely are. Turn 2 Daemonette assaults aren't super reliable.

**Kroothawk**

BTW don't bother to check Warseer for rumours and discussion of the new Daemons Codex. A mod rage-locked the thread today. The thread on Tyranids in March is still open though

**skarsol**

Yeah, I noticed that last night. Didn't care enough to scroll back and see why.

I have the codex though if anyone still has questions, although it seems like most of the info has been spoiled already.

**Hulksmash**

What does the torrent flamer upgrade cost on the Soul Grinder and what are it's stats?

**skarsol**

S6 AP4 Assault 1 Torrent for 20

**Hulksmash**

I like it. It's comparable to DK due to it's AV13. Very nice.

**Sephyr**

I'll likely be bringing a big Tzeentch bird to my CSM force to gain acces to Divination. And since it seems it will be a better psyker AND CC beast then the Daemon Prince, it should be alright.

Then a small pool of scoring troops to sit on objectives, and a Soul Grinder to replace my chaos vindicator when I want to splurge.

So far, it seems decent. Very radical in its reshuffling of what is good and what is crap, which is always a problem in my book, but the end result seems playable, as long as you cave the $$$ to adapt to the new horde paradigm.

**MandalorynOranj**

Do Pink Horrors have any shooting that isn't a psychic power? Not loving that my 20-man squad can end up with 4 shots due to bad dice, or that the enemy can Deny the Witch and cancel out my shooting.

**Janthkin**

Sephyr wrote:
So far, it seems decent. Very radical in its reshuffling of what is good and what is crap, which is always a problem in my book, but the end result seems playable, as long as you cave the $$$ to adapt to the new horde paradigm.

Advantage to those of us with Fantasy Daemon armies; we already have large numbers of daemons lying around.

**Chaospling**

Kroothawk wrote:
BTW don't bother to check Warseer for rumours and discussion of the new Daemons Codex. A mod rage-locked the thread today. The thread on Tyranids in March is still open though

Yeah that moderator sure likes to show of. Quite pathetic...

Hulksmash wrote:
What does the torrent flamer upgrade cost on the Soul Grinder and what are it's stats?

At Faeit I read that it's S6 and AP3!!! If that's the case then... Christ... A Dreadnought with tiny weeny arms have S10 but such huge claws S6 and AP3. If that's the case, then GW will never sell me a Defiler or Soul Grinder...