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 labmouse42 wrote:
Oh, assuming that a daemon with mark of nurgle counts as Daemon with the alignment of Nurgle.

Mutilators and Oblitators could have heralds join them.
Mutilators with FnP + shrouded might actually be halfway decent. That would make them extremely durable.

Wouldn't the Obllits have to have daemonic instability for the herald to join them?

We already resolved that. IC without DI cannot join a unit with DI. IC with DI can join a unit without DI.

skarsol wrote:
We already resolved that. IC without DI cannot join a unit with DI. IC with DI can join a unit without DI.

The "We" he is refering to is internet nerd collection. I would in no way purchase my army based on 40k dudes thoughts on what the rules mean.

Once you get the book I will be interested to see how you can possibly twist the words in that section. It's not like we're performing poetry interpretation here.

skarsol wrote:
We already resolved that. IC without DI cannot join a unit with DI. IC with DI can join a unit without DI.

Thank you Skarsol, I must of missed it.

 Swara wrote:
Wouldn't the Obllits have to have daemonic instability for the herald to join them?

No.
Daemons can only join units that are comprised entirely of Daemons of the same alignment as themselves (i.e. a Herald of Slaanesh may not join a unit of Plaguebearers)

Only units with daemonic instability can join units with daemonic instability. This locks out CSM units from joining daemons. Not the other way around.
The question is this "Does a unit of Mutilators with the Mark of Slaanesh count as having the same alignment as a daemon of slaanesh". That will need to be FAQed at your local tourney or by GW.

This is designed so that people doesn't put Lords and Sorcerors in a squad of Deamons and Deep Strike with them, even if they have a Termi armor.

A Nurgle Sorceror in a pavement of 20 PB's + Herald...

But a Herald+PM's, is apparently doable.

Mmmh... An Herald of Khorne in a Khorne Chosen Squad...

About the alignments, when you look at the Warpstorm table the results that hits units also mention " Deamons of X or Marked by X" so it might be 2 things, its designed that way because the Soulgrinder is the only unit of the book that can be Marked, or its done so for when you play CSM allies and they get also hit.

SO maybe, and i say maybe, because its a sling shot that i'm doing here, Marked units are regarded as alignend to the same god, as the Deamons.

Dunno if it is more clear in the dex or anything, but it might be something cleared up in a following FaQ.

And i do hope that the Crushers saves will be faqed...

 skkipper wrote:
yeah some of us are 37 minutes from midnite sadly. I don't want to wait. :(

Just wait. I guess you'll be disappointed.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Swara wrote:
Wouldn't the Obllits have to have daemonic instability for the herald to join them?

No.
Daemons can only join units that are comprised entirely of Daemons of the same alignment as themselves (i.e. a Herald of Slaanesh may not join a unit of Plaguebearers)

Only units with daemonic instability can join units with daemonic instability. This locks out CSM units from joining daemons. Not the other way around.
The question is this "Does a unit of Mutilators with the Mark of Slaanesh count as having the same alignment as a daemon of slaanesh". That will need to be FAQed at your local tourney or by GW.

Thanks. I was a bit confused by it, but hopefully FAQ wise it is doable. FnP with 3 Oblits would make them beastly. And the Loci of poison is only wound on 2+ for only hits that are a 6 correct?

 Swara wrote:
Thanks. I was a bit confused by it, but hopefully FAQ wise it is doable. FnP with 3 Oblits would make them beastly. And the Loci of poison is only wound on 2+ for only hits that are a 6 correct?

Correct. "To hit rolls of a 6 ... close combat ... Poisoned (2+)"

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
But a Herald+PM's, is apparently doable.

Sorry, this is not allowed.
Plague Marines are not daemons. A herald can only join a unit of daemons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swara wrote:
Thanks. I was a bit confused by it, but hopefully FAQ wise it is doable. FnP with 3 Oblits would make them beastly. And the Loci of poison is only wound on 2+ for only hits that are a 6 correct?

I think it opens a lot of doors, and might add some functionality to otherwise useless units.

Mutilators are garbage. If I can give them FNP, then they might be better. If they can deep strike in off a daemon icon, they might be even better.

skarsol wrote:

 Swara wrote:
Thanks. I was a bit confused by it, but hopefully FAQ wise it is doable. FnP with 3 Oblits would make them beastly. And the Loci of poison is only wound on 2+ for only hits that are a 6 correct?

Correct. "To hit rolls of a 6 ... close combat ... Poisoned (2+)"

At least they made it a simple choice of which loci I'm going to take. : (

I looked through the thread and didn't see the answer to this. I was curious as to what the Loci of Khorne are. I know that they have a banner which gives a charge of 6+D6" which is pretty badass.

Lesser: Adamantium Will
Greater: Rage
Exalted: Hatred

This extreme fear of any real direct interplay between CD and CSM irks me.

You can put an IG primaris psyker attached to a squad of Black Templars. You can have Eldrad fist-bumping a haemonculi in the same unit and a scrub Guard IC bossing proud Ultramarines around.

But having a squad of plague marines being led by an incarnation of the deity they have dedicated their souls to? Unthinkable. A Khorne Lord adding his juggernaut to a stampede of bloodcrushers? Not fluffy at all. Ahriman leading a host of horrors he just pulled from the Warp? Na ga happen.

Hell, pretty much 90% of CSM fluff revolved around using icons and rituals to brong Warp Daemons about to swell their numbers and fight by their side, but if you looked at these two codexes you'd never guess.

Guess they need to work toward having the organic, long-lasting bond shared by Eldar and Tau.

I suspect as more and more 6th edition books come out, they'll all be locked down in a similar fashion.

I agree with the forced lack of synergy between codexes. There's only been one loyalist 6th book and it unlocked 4++ IG blob squads. I'm not seeing anything on that level here. (still happy about what I'm hearing from the codex for the most part though )

 Sephyr wrote:
This extreme fear of any real direct interplay between CD and CSM irks me.

You can put an IG primaris psyker attached to a squad of Black Templars. You can have Eldrad fist-bumping a haemonculi in the same unit and a scrub Guard IC bossing proud Ultramarines around.

But having a squad of plague marines being led by an incarnation of the deity they have dedicated their souls to? Unthinkable. A Khorne Lord adding his juggernaut to a stampede of bloodcrushers? Not fluffy at all. Ahriman leading a host of horrors he just pulled from the Warp? Na ga happen.

Hell, pretty much 90% of CSM fluff revolved around using icons and rituals to brong Warp Daemons about to swell their numbers and fight by their side, but if you looked at these two codexes you'd never guess.

Guess they need to work toward having the organic, long-lasting bond shared by Eldar and Tau.

I really don't think you can attach a Primaris Psyker to Black Templars. It says very clearly that Black Templars cannot ally with any psykers except grey knights.

+1 here.
It makes me sad that Vect and Eldrad can bro-fist, but Nurgle forbid that one of his chosen deamons join a squad of dedicated plague marines.

Now Slaanesh will have Eldar/Dark Eldar as preferred enemy.

The plaguemarine incident can be explained simply that it's too dangerous for the plague marines to be in the same immediate vicinity as a herald. Or that the herald doesnt consider them worthy of his prescence.
But oblits, mutis, and warp talons have crossed a threshold, where they have given up any humanity to become a "true weapon" of the dark gods, where as a plaguemarine might embrace nurgle for selfish reasons. Something like that....
As far as "marks = daemons of," i personally don't think they do, because there is a difference, but no clear evidence to the contrary either. Either way you argue, it's safest to assume that marks =/= daemons of....

skarsol wrote:
I suspect as more and more 6th edition books come out, they'll all be locked down in a similar fashion.

Nice hardcover books but playing DA or CSM? No, thank you, I wouldn't.

skarsol wrote:
I suspect as more and more 6th edition books come out, they'll all be locked down in a similar fashion.

Yup. It's plainly obvious that GW is being very careful to leave the door wide open for the removal of Allies in 7th.

Edited by Manchu

skarsol wrote:
I suspect as more and more 6th edition books come out, they'll all be locked down in a similar fashion.

The only thing I'd add to this thought is this. With the single decision to have ATSKNF transfer with independant characters any army who is battle brothers with a loyalist chapter already has an amazing level of synergy before a single word is written in a 6th update.

Neronoxx wrote:
As far as "marks = daemons of," i personally don't think they do, because there is a difference, but no clear evidence to the contrary either. Either way you argue, it's safest to assume that marks =/= daemons of....

Except that GW has already ruled cases where they do mean the same thing. The FAQ giving a daemon prince of knorne access to the Axe of Blind Fury (which requires a mark of khorne) is an example.

It will require a FAQ, either on GWs part or on the tourney organizers.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

skarsol wrote:
I suspect as more and more 6th edition books come out, they'll all be locked down in a similar fashion.

Yup. It's plainly obvious that GW is being very careful to leave the door wide open for the removal of Allies in 7th.

I would be very surprised if allies remained in 7th. Knowing GW, allies was implemented both as a way for certain armies that lacked things (anti-air, fliers, long range weapons, etc.) to get them, and more cynically, so they could force people to buy different armies. Once 6th nears its end and most armies get access to these things in some way, allies will be removed entirely. Most tournaments already don't allow them if I'm not mistaken (along with double FOC buts that's a whole other issue).

 lord_blackfang wrote:


Yup. It's plainly obvious that GW is being very careful to leave the door wide open for the removal of Allies in 7th.

"Better expand those 500 points of IG you bought to boost your Ultramarines into a proper army now, fanboy! Oh, and we nerfed Vendettas into the ground, so they don't even count toward the goal!"

As for Neronox's explanation for not allowing IC attachment, that's really reaching. you think daemons wouldreally care about who fights alongside them during the rare chances they get to tear things up in the Materium?

"Stop this charge NOW, my fellow Bloodletters! Kharn is trying to be a party pooper and tag along again! Warp help me young man, I'll turn this slaughter right around and head home if you don't behave!"

or

"See Typhus, it's not that we don't -like- you and your plague marines. We think's your just swell! It's just that we're a bit too toxic to hang around with you. I know you're actually WAY more durable than us, with higher toughness, power armor and organic FNP, and we all carry the same poisoned weapons...but...um...it's not you, it's us."

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Most tournaments already don't allow them if I'm not mistaken (along with double FOC buts that's a whole other issue).

I haven't seen a tournament that doesn't allow allies in 6th.

 labmouse42 wrote:
+1 here.
It makes me sad that Vect and Eldrad can bro-fist, but Nurgle forbid that one of his chosen deamons join a squad of dedicated plague marines.

If you think that's bad, read the Disciple rule on Phoenix Lords. "Cannot join ASPECT SQUADS that are not their aspect."

Incubi are not aspect squads.

RAW, Karandras can join a unit of Incubi led by Drazhar.

Because apparently they can put their differences aside when the Archon and the Autarch tell them to play nice.

On topic: Why do people think it's obvious that GW is leaving the door open to get rid of allies in 7th edition by saying in 6th edition books that things can't ally. By your logic, GW's ploy is to get people to buy multiple armies. So wouldn't it make more sense to let people ally CSMs and Daemons, then simply remove the ally rules in the 7th edition rulebook? That way they can be that money-grubbing, greedy, capitalist company that we all know Gamesworkshop to be (that was sarcasm, by the way). Why would the codices need the rules to disallow allies when, according to you, allies won't be allowed at all in the next rule set, all the while saying GW is trying to get all our moneyz? And to scream "it makes no sense!!" before you even have the codex in your hand is equally silly. Unless, of course, you speak fluent German.