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Okay guys i couldn't resist making a thread about this, i'm sure its been done before but what the hell lets get angry and rant!

1. Which Primarch is the STRONGEST

2. Which Primarch is the FASTEST

3. Which Primarch HAS the MOST weapon skills & talent, this may be a power maul wielder such as Horus a swordsman such as Fulgrim or a claw / fist wielder such as Konrad Curze

4. Which Primarch is the one most likely to just dodge you and stab you in the face aka Curze, Alpharius ??

5. Which Primarch is an melee underdog that could be really good, aka Mortarion? Khan?

Okay so i'm trying to put certain Primarchs into classes to get a better idea of skills and weapons and whom would be more deadly, allow this thread to become the DEADLIEST WARRIOR OF THE PRIMARCHS!

Well start with Primarchs that we know are good in combat, i'm going to try and make a list here of who i think is realistically the best or equal too.

1. Okay at the top i believe ( not including power or gifts from daemons, bare bones here ) the top 3 melee primarchs that i personally think deserve top rank are: Sanguinius, i believe he has fluidity with his movements, he is fast, and has wings which he could greatly benefit from in combat.
tied at first i think that Lion El Johnson would also be ranked in the top 3, because he fought 'monsters' and a calibanite lion and won with his bare hands naked. He trained for a while as well as many dark angels becoming knights and perfecting their master swordsmanship etc. For my last choice for top three fighters i really do believe Konrad Curze is a street fighter, he would be thinking clearly on his feet, i think he could beat any primarch in hand to hand combat including Angron and Russ. Curze is a murder, a brawler, street smart, he is fear incarnate.

Okay so far most of you guys will be pissed but im going to continue classing primarchs.

Next we have the power house class, Leman Russ, Angron, and quite possibly Perturbo. of the power house primarchs i think that Russ's wolf like attributes would help him in a one on one vs someone like Curze or Alpharius, but i think that Angron is just to damn scary for him. For the power class i vote for the following ranks, Angron, Russ, Perterbo. best from left to right.

Next up we have skillful, quick fighters who would also be fluid, and quick to strike. the following primarchs are in this class, Fulgrim, Corax, Sanguinius. To be honest i do not know enough about Corax to make a call but we all know how skilled Fulgrim is. And i placed Sanguinius in the top 3.

Next class would be the assassins, Alpharius, Omegon, Konrad Curze. I chose for Curze to be in the top 3.

Next class is the randoms, Magnus, Mortarion. Both of these guys are unique. Mortarion could have some crazy poison on his scythe you never know, not much is known about his fighting prowess. And for Magnus he can blast you from range but hes a wild card imo.

Next class is pretty much everyone else who i do not believe to be anything special, Rogal Dorn, Horus, Rowboat Girlyman, Khan, Vulkan, Ferris Manus i do not believe these guys are better then anyone else, they are tactical yes but lets be honest i dont see them having enough talent to best a fast attacker, or a quick attack.

I mean lets be honest here, in a one on one something crazy could happen right, Magnus could cast a fireball at Vulkan, Vulkan is immune to fire, he would charge through it and through is epic spear.. Corax could fly up with his jump pack and whip you to death, i know this forum is going to get crazy so lets try to keep things semi - possessional.

For the top three you could say Curze doesn't belong there, but i based the top three of basic facts. Such as: The lion beat Russ, Curze beat the lion. Curze shredded Dorn, Sanguinius should have been the Warmaster.things like that.

I'm really curious about Mortarion to be frank, hes such a noble, and humbly corrupt fellow. He is honorable, and he could have some crazy tricks up his sleeve.
I'm also curious about Khan, i have a feeling hes very talented with melee weapons of all sorts.

Okay so i'm done with this for now you guys take over, make a list from 1 to 5, answering my questions from the top of my post, and then a separate list with your Top 3 Primarchs. then post your rant after that so we stay organized and we can read each others posts with an easy format!

I didn't make any notes about Lorgar, i dont have a hate on for any primarch i have a good open mind for this sort of topic, but he really doesnt have any warrior traits so dont hate !

SHOOT !

Horus should not be in the "nothing special" class. If Sanguinius is in the top 3 for strength, and Horus isn't in the top three for anything, how could Horus kill him at the battle for Terra?

DOOMBREAD wrote:Horus should not be in the "nothing special" class. If Sanguinius is in the top 3 for strength, and Horus isn't in the top three for anything, how could Horus kill him at the battle for Terra?

Chaos Gods push his power level over 9000?

Frecklesonfire wrote:1. Which Primarch is the STRONGEST

Guilliman.

2. Which Primarch is the FASTEST

Guilliman.

3. Which Primarch HAS the MOST weapon skills & talent, this may be a power maul wielder such as Horus a swordsman such as Fulgrim or a claw / fist wielder such as Konrad Curze

Guilliman.

4. Which Primarch is the one most likely to just dodge you and stab you in the face aka Curze, Alpharius ??

Guilliman.

5. Which Primarch is an melee underdog that could be really good, aka Mortarion? Khan?

Guilliman


Guilliman is your only god.

Frecklesonfire wrote:
1. Which Primarch is the STRONGEST

Guilliman.
2. Which Primarch is the FASTEST

Guilliman.
3. Which Primarch HAS the MOST weapon skills & talent, this may be a power maul wielder such as Horus a swordsman such as Fulgrim or a claw / fist wielder such as Konrad Curze

Guilliman.
4. Which Primarch is the one most likely to just dodge you and stab you in the face aka Curze, Alpharius ??

Guilliman.
5. Which Primarch is an melee underdog that could be really good, aka Mortarion? Khan?

Guilliman

Guilliman is your only god.

I'm sick of your ultrasmurf fanboy shenanigans on every forum please quit warhammer i find you annoying

Frecklesonfire wrote:

Frecklesonfire wrote:
1. Which Primarch is the STRONGEST

Guilliman.
2. Which Primarch is the FASTEST

Guilliman.
3. Which Primarch HAS the MOST weapon skills & talent, this may be a power maul wielder such as Horus a swordsman such as Fulgrim or a claw / fist wielder such as Konrad Curze

Guilliman.
4. Which Primarch is the one most likely to just dodge you and stab you in the face aka Curze, Alpharius ??

Guilliman.
5. Which Primarch is an melee underdog that could be really good, aka Mortarion? Khan?

Guilliman

Guilliman is your only god.

I'm sick of your ultrasmurf fanboy shenanigans on every forum please quit warhammer i find you annoying

Nahhhhh. I like Warhams.

I would say Magnus he can fry ur brains from a distance and he had the power to break through the emperors defenses against the warp and chaos simply to warn his father.

Then Hours he simply has the best of almost everything and would have conquered the whole galaxy if not for his fall.

Not least I agree I am a Night Haunter fan as well he was smart enough to not fight you face to face he'd slit ur throat in ur sleep or stab you in the back in the dark and you would never see it coming.

1. Strongest Primarch = Ferrus Manus/Vulkan
Ferrus along with Vulkan have already several times been lauded as the strongest of the bunch (physically.) It is however unclear, who of the two brothers are the strongest.

2. Fastest Primarch:
This one is harder to narrow down. So far there have been a great many cases were a Primarch have shown considerable speed. Of my head I can remember Curze, Dorn, Fulgrim and the Lion.
I would also have liked to put Khan and Sanguinius on list, but haven’t read enough about those two to justify it.

3. Primarch with most weapon skill and talent:
This one can’t be answered yet. But if I was to choose, then I would put my money on Fulgrim or Khan, since Lorgar once described them as very skilled swordsmen.

4. Skipping this one, question too silly.

5. Underdog Primarch:
The title of underdog most definitely goes to Dorn. People here on the forums have zero confidence in his abilities as a Primarch

The answer to 1 and 2 is Magnus, imo.

He might not naturally be strongest nor the fastest, but being arguably the greatest Psyker in the entire mythos besides the Emperor, it stands to reason that he can amp his physical stats to ridiculous levels with his powers.

3 is undoubtedly Sanguinus, with Fulgrim coming in second place.

4 would probably be Kurze, Russ or Mortarion, all extreme pragmatists who care little for honor and just want to get the job done.

For 5 I want to say Kurze, but I don't really know. All of the Primarchs who might be "underdogs" are also completely featless when it comes to H2H combat. For example, Kurze vs. the Khan in a duel. Who wins? Who the hell knows?

Frecklesonfire wrote:Okay guys i couldn't resist making a thread about this, i'm sure its been done before but what the hell lets get angry and rant!



For the top three you could say Curze doesn't belong there, but i based the top three of basic facts. Such as: The lion beat Russ, Curze beat the lion. Curze shredded Dorn, Sanguinius should have been the Warmaster.things like that.

-False,Lion sucker-punched Russ when he stopped fighting and was sitting on his ass and laughing ( in a non lethal combat )
-False, Curze and Lion were in a stalemate - we don't know how would it ended
-False, Curze suckerpunched Dorn ( without PA) in rage ,which was shock and awe for Dorn
-Perturabo ? Seriosly ?
Don't get offended,but this is to much vague topic and people will always write their favorite primarch Mary Sue....
and btw there's been 10000 topics on this and all turned out to be pissing contest...

 Frecklesonfire wrote:
1. Which Primarch is the STRONGEST

If you mean in terms of raw physical power, it is between Vulkan and Ferrus Manus.

On the tier below them, I'd put Magnus, Leman Russ, and maybe Angron (Gut feeling).

2. Which Primarch is the FASTEST

In what fashion?

In terms of getting from a to b in the shortest amount of time, probably Sanguinius due to his wings (Or maybe Magnus, if he can teleport, which isn't too big a stretch).

In terms of reaction-time and combat speed, Fulgrim and Lion seem exceptionally quick in that regard, and Sanguinius would also probably be up there.

3. Which Primarch HAS the MOST weapon skills & talent, this may be a power maul wielder such as Horus a swordsman such as Fulgrim or a claw / fist wielder such as Konrad Curze

Horus and Sanguinius in terms of being classically trained warriors, but Angron is up there in terms of plain being a good fighter.

4. Which Primarch is the one most likely to just dodge you and stab you in the face aka Curze, Alpharius ??

Weird question.

5. Which Primarch is an melee underdog that could be really good, aka Mortarion? Khan?

Magnus, as shown in his fight with Leman Russ. Despite a reputation of being a big nerd, he very much held his own with Leman Russ in melee combat.

Also, bored and feel like adding my own opinion of the psychic levels of the Primarchs:

Magnus is obviously the most psychically powerful, followed by Lorgar, and then IMO Sanguinius, whose appearance in Aurelian suggests he is capable of using his psychic talents in combat. Followed by them is Corax (Can turn invisible sorta) and Leman Russ (Can unleash a psychic howl that causes other psykers to backlash and even be killed), and then all of the Primarchs who haven't tapped their psychic potential, except in ways they can't control (Like Curze).

I love the Iron Hands and I confirm, from a Black Library Book that Ferrus Manus was physically both the largest and strongest Primarch with Vulkan in a close second.

In Age of Darkness, the Salamander has a flashback of Istvaan and remembers Vulkan over turning a traitor Rhino with his bear hands. He then proceeds to say that in shear size and strength, only Ferrus Manus was bigger and stronger than Vulkan, who in turn was bigger and stronger than all of the other Primarchs.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I love the Iron Hands and I confirm, from a Black Library Book that Ferrus Manus was physically both the largest and strongest Primarch with Vulkan in a close second.

In Age of Darkness, the Salamander has a flashback of Istvaan and remembers Vulkan over turning a traitor Rhino with his bear hands. He then proceeds to say that in shear size and strength, only Ferrus Manus was bigger and stronger than Vulkan, who in turn was bigger and stronger than all of the other Primarchs.

Magnus the Red was the largest Primarch according to every source mentioning his size, noticeably bigger than the Emperor as well.

And no, Age of Darkness confirms that Vulkan is the strongest living Primarch in physical might, with only the dead Ferrus Manus being able to contest that claim. Size isn't mentioned at all.

Ferrus Manus is apparently taller than both Vulkan and even moreso Corax though.

Magnus however was considered a "giant", even by Primarch standards.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I love the Iron Hands and I confirm, from a Black Library Book that Ferrus Manus was physically both the largest and strongest Primarch with Vulkan in a close second.

In Age of Darkness, the Salamander has a flashback of Istvaan and remembers Vulkan over turning a traitor Rhino with his bear hands. He then proceeds to say that in shear size and strength, only Ferrus Manus was bigger and stronger than Vulkan, who in turn was bigger and stronger than all of the other Primarchs.

Nice ref bra, but the dude actually said he DIDNT know who was the strongest, I too lean towards Ferrus, but the fluff doesnt say it either way

Darthmarko:"-False, Curze and Lion were in a stalemate - we don't know how would it ended "

Sorry mate, Im a DA player and love them to death, but the Lion lost this one, had his equerry not intervened then his head would have been smashed in, In a fair fight Conrad would be toast, but thats a fair fight.

 Formosa wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I love the Iron Hands and I confirm, from a Black Library Book that Ferrus Manus was physically both the largest and strongest Primarch with Vulkan in a close second.

In Age of Darkness, the Salamander has a flashback of Istvaan and remembers Vulkan over turning a traitor Rhino with his bear hands. He then proceeds to say that in shear size and strength, only Ferrus Manus was bigger and stronger than Vulkan, who in turn was bigger and stronger than all of the other Primarchs.

Nice ref bra, but the dude actually said he DIDNT know who was the strongest, I too lean towards Ferrus, but the fluff doesnt say it either way

Darthmarko:"-False, Curze and Lion were in a stalemate - we don't know how would it ended "

Sorry mate, Im a DA player and love them to death, but the Lion lost this one, had his equerry not intervened then his head would have been smashed in, In a fair fight Conrad would be toast, but thats a fair fight.

I know but I didn't wanna insult DA fans with over the head statment - btw nice that someone will admit something bad for his legion,hats down to you sir

 DOOMBREAD wrote:
Horus should not be in the "nothing special" class. If Sanguinius is in the top 3 for strength, and Horus isn't in the top three for anything, how could Horus kill him at the battle for Terra?

How about all four Chaos gods lending him power...I mean, rather obvious

 Void__Dragon wrote:
then all of the Primarchs who haven't tapped their psychic potential, except in ways they can't control (Like Curze).

Curze could control his powers to an extent. In 'The Dark King' he uses a scream to shatter the lights in the room in which he is being held.

 Frecklesonfire wrote:
1. Which Primarch is the STRONGEST

Possibly Angron in physical terms. Horus and Sanguinius were reckoned to be able to beat him, but that would likely be more down to skill than brute force. Plus Sanguinius could fly. Psychically, Magnus, easily. I guess Ferrus Manus could also be reckoned to be strong, since he took a thunder hammer created and wielded by a primarch to the face and kept his head... for a while at least.

2. Which Primarch is the FASTEST

Movement wise, Alpharius, since he's everywhere at once. Otherwise, Sanguinius, since he can fly, and Magnus, sice he probably has some king of time-bending/teleportation skill. In a fight, possibly Fulgrim, since did seem to be pretty quick swinging that thunder hammer around.

3. Which Primarch HAS the MOST weapon skills & talent, this may be a power maul wielder such as Horus a swordsman such as Fulgrim or a claw / fist wielder such as Konrad Curze

They were all skilled in their own weapons. Curze was more of a weaponless fighter. Alpharius might have been worse than Guilliman, Guilliman might have been worse than Fulgrim, Fulgrim might have been worse than Ferrus (or the other way round). It all comes down to extenuating circumstances really, though Angron, Horus and Sanguinius were the most dangerous in close combat according to Curze.

4. Which Primarch is the one most likely to just dodge you and stab you in the face aka Curze, Alpharius ??

Curze I guess. Alpharius would stab you in the back five months after you thought the fight was over.

5. Which Primarch is an melee underdog that could be really good, aka Mortarion? Khan?

Dorn did get beaten by an unnamed Iron warrior, and Mortarion got roflstomped by Draigo, so probably those two.

 Formosa wrote:

Sorry mate, Im a DA player and love them to death, but the Lion lost this one, had his equerry not intervened then his head would have been smashed in, In a fair fight Conrad would be toast, but thats a fair fight.

To be fair, this is only because Curze managed to put Lion into a brawl where Lion isn't as experienced, and pinned him down. Previously, when they had been dueling with weapons, Lion was curbing him to the point he was described as being almost bored with the fight.

 Frecklesonfire wrote:


2. Which Primarch is the FASTEST

Sanguinius!

'cause Red Wunz Go Fasta'

To be fair, this is only because Curze managed to put Lion into a brawl where Lion isn't as experienced, and pinned him down. Previously, when they had been dueling with weapons, Lion was curbing him to the point he was described as being almost bored with the fight.

Lion el Johnson, was naked and alone nearly all of his life in a dark forest surrounded by chaos daemons the entire time; isn't good at brawling? umm what! , or good in a fist fight?. Johnson the one who killed a Calibonite Lion, with his bare hands, a Lion that can shift thick amrour plates around on his body etc, the most OP beast you've ever heard of, And yet with a weapon and armor Curze still gets the upper hand, dont try to tell me the Lion was out of his niche, if anything the Lion should be better at brawling then Curze, but since NL fluff is all about murdering and brawling etc they are better, but the fluff really supports Lion being better in hand to hand imo.

Lion was curbing him to the point he was described as being almost bored with the fight.

Before or after Lion cheap shotted him with a sword through the stomach..? and you wonder why he had an advantage? lol??? If you ask me the Lion knew how the fight would end up if he didn't use his tactical mind to use, he knew he needed the cheap shot so he could get a dwindling advantage over curze.

 Frecklesonfire wrote:

To be fair, this is only because Curze managed to put Lion into a brawl where Lion isn't as experienced, and pinned him down. Previously, when they had been dueling with weapons, Lion was curbing him to the point he was described as being almost bored with the fight.

Lion el Johnson, was naked and alone nearly all of his life in a dark forest surrounded by chaos daemons the entire time; isn't good at brawling? umm what! , or good in a fist fight?. Johnson the one who killed a Calibonite Lion, with his bare hands, a Lion that can shift thick amrour plates around on his body etc, the most OP beast you've ever heard of, And yet with a weapon and armor Curze still gets the upper hand, dont try to tell me the Lion was out of his niche, if anything the Lion should be better at brawling then Curze, but since NL fluff is all about murdering and brawling etc they are better, but the fluff really supports Lion being better in hand to hand imo.

Lion was curbing him to the point he was described as being almost bored with the fight.

Before or after Lion cheap shotted him with a sword through the stomach..? and you wonder why he had an advantage? lol??? If you ask me the Lion knew how the fight would end up if he didn't use his tactical mind to use, he knew he needed the cheap shot so he could get a dwindling advantage over curze.

Never said Lion wasn't good at brawling, if he wasn't, he would not have fought Leman Russ to a stand still.

Lion, however, whenever I've seen him, follows the "Knight" archetype, so of course it would make more sense for him to be more skilled and capable with a weapon then Curze.

Moreover, the injury barely troubled Curze, as he ignored the pain and quickly healed the wound. It is made blatantly clear that Lion is more skilled and capable when it comes to a proper fight and duel. Now, could their brawl have ended the other way with Lion on top and throttling Curze? Perhaps. However, the text states that the Lion was out of his element once Curze charged and grappled him.

 Frecklesonfire wrote:

Frecklesonfire wrote:
1. Which Primarch is the STRONGEST

Guilliman.
2. Which Primarch is the FASTEST

Guilliman.
3. Which Primarch HAS the MOST weapon skills & talent, this may be a power maul wielder such as Horus a swordsman such as Fulgrim or a claw / fist wielder such as Konrad Curze

Guilliman.
4. Which Primarch is the one most likely to just dodge you and stab you in the face aka Curze, Alpharius ??

Guilliman.
5. Which Primarch is an melee underdog that could be really good, aka Mortarion? Khan?

Guilliman

Guilliman is your only god.

I'm sick of your ultrasmurf fanboy shenanigans on every forum please quit warhammer i find you annoying

It's funny because you're the one bitching about Ultramarines players after harassing them.

 Formosa wrote:
Sorry mate, Im a DA player and love them to death, but the Lion lost this one, had his equerry not intervened then his head would have been smashed in, In a fair fight Conrad would be toast, but thats a fair fight.

In a "fair fight" the Lion wouldn't have started the fight with a cheap shot, namely a sword in the gut, which the Lion admitted was dishonorable (But then what isn't dishonorable about the Lion? He's frankly sort of a sociopath).

 Durza wrote:
Movement wise, Alpharius, since he's everywhere at once. Otherwise, Sanguinius, since he can fly, and Magnus, sice he probably has some king of time-bending/teleportation skill. In a fight, possibly Fulgrim, since did seem to be pretty quick swinging that thunder hammer around.

Oh that's right, Magnus could actually slow or even stop the flow of time.

 Frecklesonfire wrote:
Lion el Johnson, was naked and alone nearly all of his life in a dark forest surrounded by chaos daemons the entire time; isn't good at brawling? umm what! , or good in a fist fight?. Johnson the one who killed a Calibonite Lion, with his bare hands, a Lion that can shift thick amrour plates around on his body etc, the most OP beast you've ever heard of, And yet with a weapon and armor Curze still gets the upper hand, dont try to tell me the Lion was out of his niche, if anything the Lion should be better at brawling then Curze, but since NL fluff is all about murdering and brawling etc they are better, but the fluff really supports Lion being better in hand to hand imo.

Killing a Calibonite Lion doesn't impress me that much personally, considering a friggin' 14 year old boy managed it, that he was a psyker is irrelevant. Ferrus Manus strangled and drowned what was likely a powerful Necron construct (Maybe even a C'tan shard, if the writers decide to integrate new fluff and older fluff) with his bare hands, and Fulgrim crushed the throat of an Avatar of Khaine.

The Lion is skilled with a blade per fluff, but is never really portrayed as a particularly skilled H2H fighter IMO. Curze on the other hand punches his fingers through the chest of fellow Primarchs, namely Dorn. But on the other hand Dorn is kind of a punk.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Sorry mate, Im a DA player and love them to death, but the Lion lost this one, had his equerry not intervened then his head would have been smashed in, In a fair fight Conrad would be toast, but thats a fair fight.

In a "fair fight" the Lion wouldn't have started the fight with a cheap shot, namely a sword in the gut, which the Lion admitted was dishonorable (But then what isn't dishonorable about the Lion? He's frankly sort of a sociopath).

 Durza wrote:
Movement wise, Alpharius, since he's everywhere at once. Otherwise, Sanguinius, since he can fly, and Magnus, sice he probably has some king of time-bending/teleportation skill. In a fight, possibly Fulgrim, since did seem to be pretty quick swinging that thunder hammer around.

Oh that's right, Magnus could actually slow or even stop the flow of time.

 Frecklesonfire wrote:
Lion el Johnson, was naked and alone nearly all of his life in a dark forest surrounded by chaos daemons the entire time; isn't good at brawling? umm what! , or good in a fist fight?. Johnson the one who killed a Calibonite Lion, with his bare hands, a Lion that can shift thick amrour plates around on his body etc, the most OP beast you've ever heard of, And yet with a weapon and armor Curze still gets the upper hand, dont try to tell me the Lion was out of his niche, if anything the Lion should be better at brawling then Curze, but since NL fluff is all about murdering and brawling etc they are better, but the fluff really supports Lion being better in hand to hand imo.

Killing a Calibonite Lion doesn't impress me that much personally, considering a friggin' 14 year old boy managed it, that he was a psyker is irrelevant. Ferrus Manus strangled and drowned what was likely a powerful Necron construct (Maybe even a C'tan shard, if the writers decide to integrate new fluff and older fluff) with his bare hands, and Fulgrim crushed the throat of an Avatar of Khaine.

The Lion is skilled with a blade per fluff, but is never really portrayed as a particularly skilled H2H fighter IMO. Curze on the other hand punches his fingers through the chest of fellow Primarchs, namely Dorn. But on the other hand Dorn is kind of a punk.

Didn't the Lion and Russ fight for like a week straight over some contest?

They did, but similarly Russ has also never been known to be much of a bare-handed brawler Primarch.

That niche tends to be filled more by Vulkan and Ferrus Manus (Get by with raw strength and endurance), Curze, and maybe Corax (If only because his weaponry is a bit more similar to brawling).

 Frecklesonfire wrote:

1. Which Primarch is the STRONGEST

2. Which Primarch is the FASTEST

3. Which Primarch HAS the MOST weapon skills & talent, this may be a power maul wielder such as Horus a swordsman such as Fulgrim or a claw / fist wielder such as Konrad Curze

4. Which Primarch is the one most likely to just dodge you and stab you in the face aka Curze, Alpharius ??

5. Which Primarch is an melee underdog that could be really good, aka Mortarion? Khan?

I am an Eldar player with very little bias, here are my thoughts:

1) Ferrus or Vulkan.

2) Konrad imo. He beat the s--- out of two other primarchs. Both times he basically blitzed and overwhelmed them. Dorn was a debatable cheapish shot... but the Lion was fighting him and then got caught completely off guard. I'd say you can make a case for Sanguinus or Corax also.

3) In terms of pure skill... Horus, Sanguinus, Fulgrim, Lion. Angron I think is more of a brute with good enough skill to be extremely dangerous. So I wouldn't include Angron in this list, but I didn't forget about him.

4) Uh.. did you just want Alpharius to win something?

5) Ferrus Manus or Khan. Usually in these debates, Fulgrim comes out towards the higher end of the rankings (he did kill two imperial primarchs afterall), but people overlook that Ferrus fought him extremely evenly. Khan was also said to be extremely skilled, but I personally haven't read anything that shows it.

As for overall power, in a straight up duel:
1) Horus
2) Sanguinus
3) Angron
4) Konrad
5) Fulgrim, Russ, Lion (really hard to say... but the order I mentioned them is what I think)

Also, special mention goes to Magnus. His psychic powers are a complete wild card, I don't really know how to rank him. He could very well beat anyone on this list except for Angron or Russ, who both seem to be resistant to psychic attacks. So I'm just basing this off melee skills.

Still waiting for a HH book about the White Scars btw

1.) I love these reading these types of threads. Both for the intelligent insight-able debates and the bickering. (I know this is a tad off topic) AS far as The Lion v. Cruz debate that was throwing back and forth, I recently re-read “Savage Weapons” where they have their little run in. Using that a reference point Cruz would have beat The Lion if The Lion’s Honor guard didn’t get his sword thru Cruz’s spine. Not to say that The Lion couldn’t beat Cruz in other situation, but in that reference the evidence points from the script that The Lion was beat.
Which brings up another thought. Is the Horus Heresy series the only point of reference we should be using to determine the best Primarchs in these different categories? Seems right to have one focal source to reference too.

Either way I love these types of debates.. Once I can sneak some time at work I will post my thoughts and try to back them up with references. I’ll give one now which I will assume will cause debate cause people tend to hate on this Primarch a lot more than others.

AS far as the Primarch that is the biggest underdog: Lorgar. Hear me out. Yes Cruz saved him from Corax: Fact. The aftermath, from that in the book “Aurelian” (Horus Heresy) is what I am going to use for most of my reference for this statement. When all nine traitor Primarchs are gathered oh Horus’ warship, everyone knows something is up with Lorgar. 1.) He is the only one that knows Fulgrim is a Daemon. 2.) He then double dunks Fulgrim into the corner with a force that none have ever seen from him before. (ok two minor point that don’t prove much) 3.) Magnus and Horus start to realize something really big is up when some Lorgar’s Psychic abilities are almost a match to Magnus. 4.) Lorgar absolutely dealt with the huge Blood thirster (name forgotten but the bigger of them, maybe someone may correct me here) to double this point doesn’t Sanguinius get man handled by a lesser one?? (haven’t read “Fear to Tread” yet) 5.) All religious fanatics are pretty die hard once they believe they are right. Which make me think that after he finally turned to chaos he let out all the power that he was keeping at bay. (keeping it at bay cause of his religious believe for the God Emperor of Mankind back in the day). 6.) After the Emperor makes Lorgar and his crew kneel before him, Lorgar give Guillieman (sp?) a huge wack, throwing him to the ground. Note on this point: yes it was a sucker smack (and from the First Heretic; Horus Heresy) but the point is in the raw power of Lorgar and that it proves there is extreme fight in Lorgar in what he believes. (belief being a powerful weapon in his case: my opinion) 7.) Lastly Fate Weaver says he would kill Guillieman if Lorgar faced him in open combat but that in turn would lose him the war. Very Very debatable point since it is chaos and one of Fate Weaver’s heads is always lying and one telling the truth even though this one time only he says that he is always telling the truth. So very very debatable.

Just my thoughts.

 Mr. Balloon Hands wrote:
1.) I love these reading these types of threads. Both for the intelligent insight-able debates and the bickering. (I know this is a tad off topic) AS far as The Lion v. Cruz debate that was throwing back and forth, I recently re-read “Savage Weapons” where they have their little run in. Using that a reference point Cruz would have beat The Lion if The Lion’s Honor guard didn’t get his sword thru Cruz’s spine. Not to say that The Lion couldn’t beat Cruz in other situation, but in that reference the evidence points from the script that The Lion was beat.
Which brings up another thought. Is the Horus Heresy series the only point of reference we should be using to determine the best Primarchs in these different categories? Seems right to have one focal source to reference too.

Either way I love these types of debates.. Once I can sneak some time at work I will post my thoughts and try to back them up with references. I’ll give one now which I will assume will cause debate cause people tend to hate on this Primarch a lot more than others.

AS far as the Primarch that is the biggest underdog: Lorgar. Hear me out. Yes Cruz saved him from Corax: Fact. The aftermath, from that in the book “Aurelian” (Horus Heresy) is what I am going to use for most of my reference for this statement. When all nine traitor Primarchs are gathered oh Horus’ warship, everyone knows something is up with Lorgar. 1.) He is the only one that knows Fulgrim is a Daemon. 2.) He then double dunks Fulgrim into the corner with a force that none have ever seen from him before. (ok two minor point that don’t prove much) 3.) Magnus and Horus start to realize something really big is up when some Lorgar’s Psychic abilities are almost a match to Magnus. 4.) Lorgar absolutely dealt with the huge Blood thirster (name forgotten but the bigger of them, maybe someone may correct me here) to double this point doesn’t Sanguinius get man handled by a lesser one?? (haven’t read “Fear to Tread” yet) 5.) All religious fanatics are pretty die hard once they believe they are right. Which make me think that after he finally turned to chaos he let out all the power that he was keeping at bay. (keeping it at bay cause of his religious believe for the God Emperor of Mankind back in the day). 6.) After the Emperor makes Lorgar and his crew kneel before him, Lorgar give Guillieman (sp?) a huge wack, throwing him to the ground. Note on this point: yes it was a sucker smack (and from the First Heretic; Horus Heresy) but the point is in the raw power of Lorgar and that it proves there is extreme fight in Lorgar in what he believes. (belief being a powerful weapon in his case: my opinion) 7.) Lastly Fate Weaver says he would kill Guillieman if Lorgar faced him in open combat but that in turn would lose him the war. Very Very debatable point since it is chaos and one of Fate Weaver’s heads is always lying and one telling the truth even though this one time only he says that he is always telling the truth. So very very debatable.

Just my thoughts.

Agree with you - Lorgar is a badass(like all p),he just wasn't reaching his potential during the great crusade,btw even Angron noticed his growth in "Butcher's nails"....