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Q: "Why has no one taken a photo of the Earth that proves it is flat?"

A: Only those connected to the conspiracy have access to heights from which the shape of the Earth can be discerned. Also, nobody has been to the edge of the Earth and lived; conditions on the Ice Wall get increasingly treacherous the further you get out, and navigation methods become unreliable that far south. It is also possible that the conspiracy is guarding the edge to prevent people from getting too close to the truth.

Wow.

People spreading this kind of non-sense should be shot along with the astrologers, palm readers, and other ridiculous pseudo-science fools.

 Barksdale wrote:

Q: "Why has no one taken a photo of the Earth that proves it is flat?"

A: Only those connected to the conspiracy have access to heights from which the shape of the Earth can be discerned. Also, nobody has been to the edge of the Earth and lived; conditions on the Ice Wall get increasingly treacherous the further you get out, and navigation methods become unreliable that far south. It is also possible that the conspiracy is guarding the edge to prevent people from getting too close to the truth.

Wow.

People spreading this kind of non-sense should be shot along with the astrologers, palm readers, and other ridiculous pseudo-science fools.

I think you are missing the point there. Its a good answer for its purpose.

Flat Earthers are consistent and encyclopedaic in their answers. They need to be because the scientific conspiracy is a plague that covers the earth from corner to corner.

 Orlanth wrote:
They need to be because the scientific conspiracy is a plague that covers the earth from corner to corner.

Yeah, I'm missing the point. Right.

Just checked out the site...Wow. Totally ludicrous.

Erm.... wut?? I really hope they don't really believe in this. If they don't, kodos to them for putting up this hilarious site!

Also.... WUT??

Q: "What is underneath the Earth?"

A: This is unknown. Most FE proponents believe that it is generally composed of rocks. Please note that in Hinduism, the Earth rests on the back of four elephants and a turtle.

You think thats bad, there are people who think its their right to be able to drive drunk.

Wow just wow

and Hotsauce man, I agree with those people, it is their right to drive drunk and it's society's right to A. never let them drive a car again and B. lash them roman style till their backs look like blood salad upon capture and conviction.

Why do I feel I just walked into a room with a load of guys with fingers in their ears going 'la la la, its not happening' while reading that site?

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Why do I feel I just walked into a room with a load of guys with fingers in their ears going 'la la la, its not happening' while reading that site?

Because you did.

Ding ding ding... we have a winnar!

Hehe, they sorta scare me, as in a raised eyebrow I'll just head over here kind of way. I suppose at least its harmless if a little odd, and I'm not enraged by some bigotry or some such, ala Fred Phelps.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:


Hehe, they sorta scare me, as in a raised eyebrow I'll just head over here kind of way. I suppose at least its harmless if a little odd, and I'm not enraged by some bigotry or some such, ala Fred Phelps.

I dont think you can put the two in anything remotely like the same category.

The Flat Earth Society is a movement that need not be explained within the social context it operates. Its a counter-intellectual movement and quite tweedy, it has no links to conspiracy theory groups, fundamentalists or fanatics. Its members choose to take on the mantle of a Flat Earther almost as a live in hobby, many are in good professional jobs including lawyers bankers etc, just not (usually) scientists due to conflict of interests. The Flat Earth Society has been around for a while at least since the 50's, though it has reinvented itself several times as it is a very disjointed movement, not through lack of numbers but because its reason for existing is to puncture scientific egos, not to propagate any belief system.

Flat Earthers are normally middle class or higher, arts graduates, usually private educated. It is clearly an intellectual counter-culture not a rabble rousing fanatic conspiracy group. I think they would be embarrassed if the like of David Icke tried to join, they don't have any political axe whatsoever.

Flat Earthism is repeatedly debated and most welcome at the Oxford Union debating society. The further Flat Earthers go to explain away Gravity or Eclipses etc the more they are liked. A Flat Earther should have an answer to all the critique, which is ritually considered valid with rather less scrutiny than usual if delivered straight faced and with sufficient aplomb.

I wasn't suggesting they where in the same catagory.

Its just often in OT the links in these kinds of threads, go toward the highly negative, ala Phelps. I was pointing out it at least it was just something odd, rather than the kind of thing that boils my blood.

The whole flat Earth thing started early in the 19th century when a guy published his study that was called 'The failings of science on the modern Earth and their inconsistency with scripture' or something like that. While it began with one Christian's drive to conform scientific understanding to his faith, it's a bit harsh to hold that against all Christians, because it was just one guy and it was 200 years ago. They did last up until the start of the 20th century, which is kind of embarrassing, though. I don't know if the reason for rejecting science had any overly Christian motive, or if it was just bull headed contrarianism.

Since then Flat Earth societies have sprung up from time to time, and I think they were all started as a joke (though clearly some members aren't quite in on it). I think the idea is vaguely to parody anti-scientific ideas like creationism and anti-vaccine movements, but mostly they're just having a laugh.

 sebster wrote:

Since then Flat Earth societies have sprung up from time to time, and I think they were all started as a joke (though clearly some members aren't quite in on it).

Its very hard to tell. Flat Earthers that step out of character are like mime artists that talk and clowns that get serious. Flat Earthism doesn't work on the internet:

"I want to explain to you how I know the world is flat."
"Ure a moron lol."

There is an unwritten code to Flat Earthers like there is for mime artists and clowns, the cut off age for Flat Earthers is university, ok most kids under the age of 18 would reaslise what is up, but to mass convey what is up without it being stated really works only from around that age group and social setting. So you never proport the Flat Earth theory in secondary schools. Explaining Flat Earth mentality is dropping 'out of character;' and is a big no-no because it ruins the consistency, were I a Flat Earther, I wouldn't have been able to join this thread because all I write here is against the code.
Active Flat Earthers basically stay off the subject online, or stick to their own corner.

Flat Earthism is at total loggerheads with practically everything we know about physics or astronomy, in a nice way and is all about having a lot of fun while appearing to be humourously proporting a dry-as-toast 'scientific' counter-theory. And that is a very English way of having fun.

 sebster wrote:

I think the idea is vaguely to parody anti-scientific ideas like creationism and anti-vaccine movements, but mostly they're just having a laugh.

The parody is of the seriousness of science plus the internal doctrinal divisions that seep into scientific debate. It has no message against any particular group, that would soil the ethic of the society. Some might add or alter ideas to be 'topical' but targeting anyone with Flat Earth is generally frowned upon. The last thing the Flat Earthers want is to cause offense, so no parody of religion is intended.



Flat Earthism is something that some universities have a long found a use for. This is why its a popular debate in Debating unions in Ox-bridge, and possibly Ivy League universities in the states, though I don't know if the latter is still true.

Flat Earthism is a whole lot of fun and provides a sufficient volume of material in support of it for the purposes of a vocal debate, its a debate on a subject that is itself interesting connected with a level of science that any University undergraduate would be firmly aware of to the extent that the internal concepts will not be foreign to them and yet the 'joke' will not require explaining.
Because the issue is so one sided from the outset the debator for Flat Earth has time to prepare the materials and has to defend his position with aplomb.
The Round Earth advocate has a harder job actually, because their debate is somewhat less interesting and at no stage can they imply that the Flat Earth is a joke argument. They have to listen respectfully to ther Flat Earth argument respectfully taking it in each concept and comparing it gently to known science with gravitas.

Remember this is Ox-bridge, the guys involved are probably headlined to work in the diplomatic service. I think you can see the training benefits.

I think part of the reason people join the flat-earth society is some sort of counterculture need and to be rebelious while getting their liberal arts degree.

I'm thinking this is simply an amazing troll that has been taken to the extreme and then a bit further. Just looking at the answers to some of these questions helps support this:

Q: What about satellites?
A: They are lies.

Q: What about the edge of the earth? Can you fly off?
A: Yes, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't real.

Q: What about pictures from orbit?
A: Pictures can be faked.

Q: What about planes flying near the south pole to shorten flights?
A: They lie and curve north instead.

Q: And Gravity.
A: We are held in place by inertia. Everything is simply accelerating at the same speed so we can't see the movement.

Q: Why do other planets and stars X? (replace "X" with some way that they are different from the earth)
A: The Earth is special.

All of these answers are troll answers; they cannot be proven either way. Even if you were to become a pilot, build a properly working compass, build a massive jet, fly 60 people each from both sides (flat and round) to the south pole/end of the world, circle the entire circumference of the edge/cycle back to the north pole and make it back; the "disproved" side would simply bake up some way of disproving you (saying you're a liar in some round-about way or that you've screwed up somewhere along the way).

I'm beginning to think this is a joint effort of trolls, physicists, mathematicians, sociologists, and psychiatrists to simply tinker with/troll the public.

It's only 'trolling' if you consider it a point of offense. That would show a lack of maturity frankly.

The nature of Flat Earthism shouldn't have to be explained to its target audience, which generally isn't the whole Internet..

The earth isn't flat. Its inverted.

The sun also orbits the Earth.

Earth is also the center of the Universe.

 Orlanth wrote:
Its very hard to tell. Flat Earthers that step out of character are like mime artists that talk and clowns that get serious. Flat Earthism doesn't work on the internet:

"I want to explain to you how I know the world is flat."
"Ure a moron lol."

True. There's a lot of things that are quite fun out in the real world that just do not translate to the internet.

There is an unwritten code to Flat Earthers like there is for mime artists and clowns, the cut off age for Flat Earthers is university, ok most kids under the age of 18 would reaslise what is up, but to mass convey what is up without it being stated really works only from around that age group and social setting. So you never proport the Flat Earth theory in secondary schools. Explaining Flat Earth mentality is dropping 'out of character;' and is a big no-no because it ruins the consistency, were I a Flat Earther, I wouldn't have been able to join this thread because all I write here is against the code.

Basically university is that time when, for whatever reason, irony and self congratulating cleverness are king, and so nonsense arguments about flat earth societies are very popular. It was my first exposure to it.

It's weird that it doesn't have a place on the internet, because irony and self congratulating cleverness are very popular here as well. Maybe its just that when actual anti-scientific silliness like anti-vaccination is next door Flat Earth kind of loses its fun.

Flat Earthism is something that some universities have a long found a use for. This is why its a popular debate in Debating unions in Ox-bridge, and possibly Ivy League universities in the states, though I don't know if the latter is still true.

Interesting, I had no idea it held that kind of place in top tier universities. My exposure to it was through other under graduates playing around with it, and had about as much importance as the endless stream of debates over the morality of blowing up the deathstar.

Since then I learned about the American centred bodies that joke around with the idea, but never learned about its place in UK universities. Thanks for that.

Wow, those people seem just as crazy as David Ike!

 sebster wrote:

Interesting, I had no idea it held that kind of place in top tier universities. My exposure to it was through other under graduates playing around with it, and had about as much importance as the endless stream of debates over the morality of blowing up the deathstar.

Since then I learned about the American centred bodies that joke around with the idea, but never learned about its place in UK universities. Thanks for that.

It's not that the idea has any respect, so much as the intellectual exercise of making your argument one way or the other. That is what debating is all about, and it is debate which can be had on a subject everyone can agree is silly, but not too silly, and is not likely to get any passionate and angry argument.

 nomsheep wrote:
OP has quite obviously has never been to 4chan.

This is far from a recent development, people also still believe in Valhalla, paganism and Santa.


And the hollow earth theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth

Nom

No, I have indeed been to 4chan . One of two things would happen: I would get trolled, or these people would get trolled. Both more likely.

And after looking through some more of that Flat Earth site, I still think they may be trollin. At least some of them are, but I think others actually believe. Heck, the site may have been started by trolls and real believers came later for all I know Or humanity is just that fething stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orlanth wrote:

 sebster wrote:

Since then Flat Earth societies have sprung up from time to time, and I think they were all started as a joke (though clearly some members aren't quite in on it).

Its very hard to tell. Flat Earthers that step out of character are like mime artists that talk and clowns that get serious. Flat Earthism doesn't work on the internet:

"I want to explain to you how I know the world is flat."
"Ure a moron lol."

There is an unwritten code to Flat Earthers like there is for mime artists and clowns, the cut off age for Flat Earthers is university, ok most kids under the age of 18 would reaslise what is up, but to mass convey what is up without it being stated really works only from around that age group and social setting. So you never proport the Flat Earth theory in secondary schools. Explaining Flat Earth mentality is dropping 'out of character;' and is a big no-no because it ruins the consistency, were I a Flat Earther, I wouldn't have been able to join this thread because all I write here is against the code.
Active Flat Earthers basically stay off the subject online, or stick to their own corner.

Flat Earthism is at total loggerheads with practically everything we know about physics or astronomy, in a nice way and is all about having a lot of fun while appearing to be humourously proporting a dry-as-toast 'scientific' counter-theory. And that is a very English way of having fun.

 sebster wrote:

I think the idea is vaguely to parody anti-scientific ideas like creationism and anti-vaccine movements, but mostly they're just having a laugh.

The parody is of the seriousness of science plus the internal doctrinal divisions that seep into scientific debate. It has no message against any particular group, that would soil the ethic of the society. Some might add or alter ideas to be 'topical' but targeting anyone with Flat Earth is generally frowned upon. The last thing the Flat Earthers want is to cause offense, so no parody of religion is intended.



Flat Earthism is something that some universities have a long found a use for. This is why its a popular debate in Debating unions in Ox-bridge, and possibly Ivy League universities in the states, though I don't know if the latter is still true.

Flat Earthism is a whole lot of fun and provides a sufficient volume of material in support of it for the purposes of a vocal debate, its a debate on a subject that is itself interesting connected with a level of science that any University undergraduate would be firmly aware of to the extent that the internal concepts will not be foreign to them and yet the 'joke' will not require explaining.
Because the issue is so one sided from the outset the debator for Flat Earth has time to prepare the materials and has to defend his position with aplomb.
The Round Earth advocate has a harder job actually, because their debate is somewhat less interesting and at no stage can they imply that the Flat Earth is a joke argument. They have to listen respectfully to ther Flat Earth argument respectfully taking it in each concept and comparing it gently to known science with gravitas.

Remember this is Ox-bridge, the guys involved are probably headlined to work in the diplomatic service. I think you can see the training benefits.

Hmm... I think we have an ex-member here, don't we?

Steve steveson wrote:
It's not that the idea has any respect, so much as the intellectual exercise of making your argument one way or the other. That is what debating is all about, and it is debate which can be had on a subject everyone can agree is silly, but not too silly, and is not likely to get any passionate and angry argument.

Yeah, I understand that. Orlanth made it quite clear in his post.

Just for your knowledge, 4chan is anonymous for a reason, they don't have accounts, and unless you bring porn, weed or cats you will either get told to leave ( not that nicely) or ignored. 4chan is not all it's built up to be.

Hell, half of it's 'members' ditched it for Reddit.

 sebster wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:
It's not that the idea has any respect, so much as the intellectual exercise of making your argument one way or the other. That is what debating is all about, and it is debate which can be had on a subject everyone can agree is silly, but not too silly, and is not likely to get any passionate and angry argument.

Yeah, I understand that. Orlanth made it quite clear in his post.

Its also defending the indefensible, which works well in diplomacy. Ambassadors get called in to explain the government polciies to a foreign government that doesnt like them all the time. In addition to minimising hatreds, I think the goal is less about persuasion and more about stalling.
Its also listening to the indefensible, which also works well in diplomacy. Ambassadors need(ed) to learn how to listen to someone like Idi Amin, or Robert Mugabe, who have a rep for talking total bollocks as much as they have a rep for taking a very dim view of anyone who critiques them.

Its quite subtle actually. Amongst some undergrads the Flat Earth Society is something cool to dabble in, but there is more to that beneath the surface.
I wouldn't go as far as to say its a discipline mainly because it has no structured leadership, so eventually as generations pass people adopt it and try to make it their own. I think this is where the 'official' Flat Earth Society currently stands. I wouldnt join mainly because there is one guy (the website owner who thinks only he can make up, sorry reveal, Flat Earth canon.
Flar Earthism was and should be open to internal debate and refinement as any (other) scientific doctrine. Flat Earthism is intended to be consistent, so for example any item of physics not explained away must be applied. Hand waving is to be kept to a minimum,, ofc course that minimum covers quite a lot.

If you can defend it, it isn't indefensible and listening to the indefensible isn't terribly difficult.

Flat Earth is anti-intellectual in the same sense that drinking PBR is counter-culture.

I'm confused is the general idea that these guys are idiots or gods?

 nomsheep wrote:
Just for your knowledge, 4chan is anonymous for a reason, they don't have accounts, and unless you bring porn, weed or cats you will either get told to leave ( not that nicely) or ignored. 4chan is not all it's built up to be.

Hell, half of it's 'members' ditched it for Reddit.

And now Reddit sucks.

I remember when Reddit was a good website. True, it was mostly pictures of cats. But beyond that it was a pretty good website.

Then all the 4chan people came.

I feel like only /b/ and maybe /a/ is being talked about. The /tg/ board isn't that bad.