What the hell, Stormfront?

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**Melissia**

Orlanth wrote:
Heretic. The language is beautiful.

I do understand that there is a generation gap problem with it, people don't understand proper English anymore, whether from the UK or abroad. At least you have some excuse being a Yank. Reading Tolkien is very natural to me, it may be partly indecipherable to some, but its silky smooth prose to others.

You brits have a problem with language yourselves, tossing around the term "Yank"/"Yankee" as if you actually understood its meaning!

:fistwave.png:

Jokes aside, I loved the way it was written, and I'm a southern American, which is about as far from British as you can get.

**Orlanth**

Will redneck do then?

**Melissia**

Only if you're talking about yourself.

**KalashnikovMarine**

youbedead wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
youbedead wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Actually the FOOD is valid criticism that LOTR and Brian Jacques's Redwall books must be saddled with. Goddess forsake that is a lot of delicious grub, and it's rather difficult to read through some of the various feasts in either series without having the urge to do the kind of cooking that involves multiple large water fowl.

The redwall cookbook http://www.amazon.com/The-Redwall-Cookbook-Brian-Jacques/dp/0399237917 makes the feasts much more entertaining

....Welp from the description "Heavy on butter and cream" I think I might be gaining a pound or two from this! Now if only there was a LOTR cook book my nerd cooking library would be complete.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Lord-Rings-Cookbook-ebook/dp/B005JQ9FSI

...you're trying to kill me aren't you?

**Luco**

White nationalists can't enjoy Tolkien's works too?

**LoneLictor**

Lord of the Rings is pretty damn racist.

White skin=protagonist
Dark skin=antagonist

Most modern readers look past the racism, because it's a pretty good book when you ignore that.

**Melissia**

LoneLictor wrote:
White skin=protagonist
Dark skin=antagonist

Already disproven.

Melissia wrote:
the reinforcement to Pelennor Fields for example included dark-skinned people from the southern part of Gondor

There were other examples as well, of good-natured dark skinned peoples in LotR.

Also, Sarumon was also very white, and many if not most of Sauron/Sarumon's flunkies were white. In fact, many of the "evil" human soldiers (including hte dark skinned ones) were actually not evil at all, but rather fearfully obeying a tyrannical dictator who was under the thumb of Sauron.

Orc/Orks (Tolkien liked Ork better during the later part of his life, though the book was published with Orc) were also not dark-skinned, but rather, heavily misshapen to the point of being inhuman-- and in fact were at one point intended to be tortured elves, or descended from the same, although Tolkien struggled all his life with finding out the meaning behind his Orcs, why they were always evil when evil in his ideology was a choice, not genetics.

**Inquisitor Ehrenstein**

Orlanth wrote:

Visiting Stormfront is the real facepalm, especially if you are from the UK.
The government already has a right to a full transcript of all websearches conducted by persons in the UK, and watch certain websites for activity, Operation Orb is a good example of this.
This would be ok, were it not that we live in a society where blanket assumptions are often made by those in authority. Turn up often enough at a website like that and authorities might wonder why you are doing so, and by and large they don't stop to think you are researching. According to the current doctrine people don't research, they visit sites to sate baser desires, so anyone known to visit Stormfront is therefore likely to be a far right extremist. You might not get a chance to convince anyone otherwise, and this might effect you if you go for certain job positions.
Turning up at a far right extremist site to research is similar to what Pete Townsend did researching paedos. It might be logical, but its still grossly unwise, it could come back to haunt you. One or two visits is likely safe, but I wouldn't stretch beyond that. I would like to visit Stormfront because it is important to know what people think and do, however I dare not visit so heavily monitored site as that, not with our dogmatised police service.

That guy not only went to a website that had child porn, but he also entered his credit card into that website. Not only is that actually illegal, but it's actually a step toward committing it. I don't think it's likely to be treated the same as visiting a legal website and only browsing. That said, caution is strongly advised against going to such websites. Even going to troll them is inadvisable, as registration is an act of joining them, and it's not likely that someone who watches the entire internet is going to take the time to review your posts. Also, the consequences could be extreme; the visits would be recorded in a government database, which would likely be accessed when applying for government positions. It's also unlikely that they would tell you why you were turned down, or that the person telling you would know, which would mean that there would be no way to explain the reason.

**Orlanth**

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Orlanth wrote:

Visiting Stormfront is the real facepalm, especially if you are from the UK.
The government already has a right to a full transcript of all websearches conducted by persons in the UK, and watch certain websites for activity, Operation Orb is a good example of this.
This would be ok, were it not that we live in a society where blanket assumptions are often made by those in authority. Turn up often enough at a website like that and authorities might wonder why you are doing so, and by and large they don't stop to think you are researching. According to the current doctrine people don't research, they visit sites to sate baser desires, so anyone known to visit Stormfront is therefore likely to be a far right extremist. You might not get a chance to convince anyone otherwise, and this might effect you if you go for certain job positions.
Turning up at a far right extremist site to research is similar to what Pete Townsend did researching paedos. It might be logical, but its still grossly unwise, it could come back to haunt you. One or two visits is likely safe, but I wouldn't stretch beyond that. I would like to visit Stormfront because it is important to know what people think and do, however I dare not visit so heavily monitored site as that, not with our dogmatised police service.

That guy not only went to a website that had child porn, but he also entered his credit card into that website. Not only is that actually illegal, but it's actually a step toward committing it. I don't think it's likely to be treated the same as visiting a legal website and only browsing. That said, caution is strongly advised against going to such websites. Even going to troll them is inadvisable, as registration is an act of joining them, and it's not likely that someone who watches the entire internet is going to take the time to review your posts. Also, the consequences could be extreme; the visits would be recorded in a government database, which would likely be accessed when applying for government positions. It's also unlikely that they would tell you why you were turned down, or that the person telling you would know, which would mean that there would be no way to explain the reason.

Looks like we are agreement then. I used Townsend as an example in case people think that visiting sites for research and curiosity is harmless and cannot lead to problems. Its hard to find concrete examples otherwise. Its not like the police say "we highlighted another six people amongst those visiting Stormfront this week and we have labeled them potential right wing extremists on government files and that might result in them failing vetting tests for jobs in public service positions".

And yes its a problem in the US also.

**AegisGrimm**

I've been told by sources that "People be crazy".

I tend to agree.

**Monster Rain**

Orlanth wrote:
Testify wrote:

No, orcs are the industrial working class.

No they are not, thats revisionist rubbish. Tolkien himself said there was no allegory in Lord of the Rings.

Yeah, but what does he know? Clearly people that apparently barely read his works know exactly what he was thinking decades after his death.

As to the Stormfront forum:

I'm really not surprised. If I had a nickel for every Nazi IG thread I've seen...

**Melissia**

Also, later in his life, Tolkien even considered the idea of there being good Orcs, but they just were not involved in the stories that he told. One wonders if he would have written about the good orcs in his various collections of tales to be added to the Simarillion and other such collections.

**AegisGrimm**

It's possible, especially after the fall of Sauron. If the Elves, a race that's been uniformly indoctrinated to be good, can have bad apples, than an "evil" race should be able to have oddballs that are good.

**Melissia**

That's the thing, Tolkien said he didn't believe in evil being something naturally inherent within living creatures.

Orcs weren't inherently evil as a race, basically.

**Orlanth**

Monster Rain wrote:
Orlanth wrote:
Testify wrote:

No, orcs are the industrial working class.

No they are not, thats revisionist rubbish. Tolkien himself said there was no allegory in Lord of the Rings.

Yeah, but what does he know? Clearly people that apparently barely read his works know exactly what he was thinking decades after his death.

Sarcasm?
Assuming not for now; people can draw allegory into Tolkien's work if they choose, in fact interpretation of a finished artform is the observers privilege and one Tolkien would understand.
However the work cannot be classified as racist of itself if no allegory is intended. One can choose to see racist allegory in it if one chooses as an artistic interpretation but that doesn't lay any moral baggage on Tolkien or the work.

Melissia wrote:
Also, later in his life, Tolkien even considered the idea of there being good Orcs, but they just were not involved in the stories that he told. One wonders if he would have written about the good orcs in his various collections of tales to be added to the Simarillion and other such collections.

Its likely they would be hunted anyway, the irony would not be lost on Tolkien.

AegisGrimm wrote:
It's possible, especially after the fall of Sauron. If the Elves, a race that's been uniformly indoctrinated to be good, can have bad apples, than an "evil" race should be able to have oddballs that are good.

The Silmarillion has plenty of accounts of evil elves. It also stated that the corruption of Morgoth stained even Valinor and division persisted there even after the chaining of Morgoth. So Tolkien's promised land is to an extent itself tainted by evil.

**AegisGrimm**

I always saw it rather that Morgoth (and then Sauron) drove them insane, and kept them starved and ignorant.

The Silmarillion has plenty of accounts of evil elves. It also stated that the corruption of Morgoth stained even Valinor and division persisted there even after the chaining of Morgoth. So Tolkien's promised land is to an extent itself tainted by evil.

That's where I got my basis from. Also, a wayward elf is the cause of the beginning of Turin's life choices in the Children of Hurin.

**Orlanth**

AegisGrimm wrote:
I always saw it rather that Morgoth (and then Sauron) drove them insane, and kept them starved and ignorant.

The Silmarillion has plenty of accounts of evil elves. It also stated that the corruption of Morgoth stained even Valinor and division persisted there even after the chaining of Morgoth. So Tolkien's promised land is to an extent itself tainted by evil.

That's where I got my basis from. Also, a wayward elf is the cause of the beginning of Turin's life choices in the Children of Hurin.

How about Feanors threat to murder the Teleri if they failed to hand over their fleet, and carrying out the threat when they didnt. Or the sacking of Doriath.

**youbedead**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
youbedead wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
youbedead wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Actually the FOOD is valid criticism that LOTR and Brian Jacques's Redwall books must be saddled with. Goddess forsake that is a lot of delicious grub, and it's rather difficult to read through some of the various feasts in either series without having the urge to do the kind of cooking that involves multiple large water fowl.

The redwall cookbook http://www.amazon.com/The-Redwall-Cookbook-Brian-Jacques/dp/0399237917 makes the feasts much more entertaining

....Welp from the description "Heavy on butter and cream" I think I might be gaining a pound or two from this! Now if only there was a LOTR cook book my nerd cooking library would be complete.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Lord-Rings-Cookbook-ebook/dp/B005JQ9FSI

...you're trying to kill me aren't you?

It's even in handy E-book form

**KalashnikovMarine**

Sadly it's not available, or I'd send you a package of Lembas bread.

**Inquisitor Ehrenstein**

Monster Rain wrote:
As to the Stormfront forum:

I'm really not surprised. If I had a nickel for every Nazi IG thread I've seen...

LOL

I've seen too many of those.

**mattyrm**

Melissia wrote:
I'm a southern American, which is about as far from British as you can get.

Of course it isnt! Proper Southerners ARE British right?

Thats why you always get Irish Americans and Italian Americans but never British Americans, because white blokes from the 13 colonies who arent one of the big three or four immigrant communities just think of "American" as "a descendant of them limeys who started the whole thing off" Anyway, thats the answer I have received when Ive asked blokes from Oaky and Virginia why nobody ever says "British American"

British soldiers feel more at home with a bunch of American soldiers than they do with some blokes from Nicaragua or the Philippines or some Persians or something!

And our culture and food is almost identical, the colours on our flags are the same, our language is the same, ad its thus with all our relatives.. Canada, USA, Australia and New Zealand......people from all of those nations come together and socialise about as easily as they do with people from the same county, let alone country. About as far from British as you can get?!

You need to face it, but you lot are about as British as it gets!

**Melissia**

No thanks, I like my tea iced.

**mattyrm**

Melissia wrote:
No thanks, I like my tea iced.

Hey me too..

Gimme a hug you big lug!

**CT GAMER**

mattyrm wrote:
Melissia wrote:
I'm a southern American, which is about as far from British as you can get.

Of course it isnt! Proper Southerners ARE British right?

Thats why you always get Irish Americans and Italian Americans but never British Americans, because white blokes from the 13 colonies who arent one of the big three or four immigrant communities just think of "American" as "a descendant of them limeys who started the whole thing off" Anyway, thats the answer I have received when Ive asked blokes from Oaky and Virginia why nobody ever says "British American"

I hear "Anglo-American" on occassion...

**Melissia**

Wait, why is Captain America's skin orange?

**CT GAMER**

Melissia wrote:
Wait, why is Captain America's skin orange?

Spray tan.

Everyone wants fake dark skin, just none of the baggage associated with actually having it...

**AlmightyWalrus**

Melissia wrote:
Wait, why is Captain America's skin orange?

That's not Captain America, that's his long-lost relative Agent Orange...

**mattyrm**

Melissia wrote:
Wait, why is Captain America's skin orange?

Old comics.. the color was worse.

Or it might be the black Captain America.. I remember him.

Hey the color was worse.. did you see what I did there?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CT GAMER wrote:
mattyrm wrote:
Melissia wrote:
I'm a southern American, which is about as far from British as you can get.

Of course it isnt! Proper Southerners ARE British right?

Thats why you always get Irish Americans and Italian Americans but never British Americans, because white blokes from the 13 colonies who arent one of the big three or four immigrant communities just think of "American" as "a descendant of them limeys who started the whole thing off" Anyway, thats the answer I have received when Ive asked blokes from Oaky and Virginia why nobody ever says "British American"

I hear "Anglo-American" on occassion...

That's pretty rare though considering Americans with some British lineage are what.. the third biggest group? .. mostly British Americans just say "American!" because they have inherited their cousins haughty arrogance.

**Monster Rain**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Wait, why is Captain America's skin orange?

That's not Captain America, that's his long-lost relative Agent Orange...

This was the most brilliant post I've seen in months.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Monster Rain wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Melissia wrote:Wait, why is Captain America's skin orange?

That's not Captain America, that's his long-lost relative Agent Orange...

This was the most brilliant post I've seen in months.

Why thank you good sir!

On a side note, why is the new quote system evil?