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Hi guys, thanks very much for reading.

A little bit of background;

Not played since 2nd Edition and only recently dug out my old miniatures after many years. Initially it was only cos I fancied having a bit of a paint, I went out and bought a Death Company box just cos they were great models that I was always jealous of as a former Ultramarine player. Now, I confess I've been totally bitten by the bug again. I'm going to start playing again and hopefully collect mabye a 2000-3000pt Blood Angel army, or at least a Blood Angel based army with lots of CSM kit-bashing going on (totally inspired by this lot) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/431491.page

So as I said, I haven't played since 2nd ED and am pretty out of date with some of the rules and modern tactics. I have had a look through the new rulebook and tried to get an impression of how some things may work but I would really appreciate anyone's advice and wisdom, particularly in terms of wargear and weapons and how they work in a game (e.g powerfists used to be awesome but now there's this unweildy rule so am I just better off with chainswords and pistols?).

The very quick and provisional list that follows is extremely provisional based loosely on approx points values found in the 5th ED Codex. My choices will probably be based primarily on looks and image but I still dont want to get spanked all the time. So please have a look and tell me what you think, what I may have missed, generally try steer me in the right direction.

HQ

Maybe a Captain in Terminator armour
Librarian with hounour guard (just cos I have the Sevrin Loth forgeworld set)

Elites

Terminator Squad (Are cyclone missile launchers still worth having? although I should have a spare assault cannon terminator to swap in and out)
Terminator Assault Squad (Are thunder hammers worth upgrading to)

Troops

10 man approx Death Company with jump packs and including Lemartes (suggestions on assault weappons?)
10 man Assault Squad, led by Chaplain, all w/ jump packs (weapons?)
Death Company Dreadnought with fists

Fast Attack

3 Land Speeders, one typhoon, one w/ heavy bolter + multimelta, one w/ bolter + assault cannon

Heavy Support

Dreadnought w/ fist and multimelta
10 man Devastator Squad w/ 4 Lascannons(Lascannons because I don't seem to have too much anti-tank stuff... and anti-spaceship stuff that you seem to need these days!)


So I very roughly estimate this to come in at around 2500pts based on the 5th ED Codex. Also I dont really know the army structure limitations, so I dont even know if this list would be legal.

My basic battle plans would involve my terminators going after objectives, the land speeders going after opposition HQ or elites on assassination attempts, and the jump pack guys generally bouncing around being a nuisance. By the way, Terminators used to be able to teleport into battle, is this still and option? can they use drop pods?

Ok, if you've continued reading this far I very, very much thank you and appreciate your time. I would greatly welcome all advice and tips or anything.

Thanks guys...

Well, the rules have changed a little bit since 2nd edition. Before we begin, please be aware that because 6th edition is so new, it's still somewhat unclear as to what's good. That said, some overall advice:

First, you need to decide what sort of army you want, and how you're going to kill things. Do you want a CC army or a shooting army? Also, do you want lots of vehicles, or none? (Taking a few is not a good idea, unless we're talking multiple Stormravens)

In 5th edition, the two main flavors of BA army were Mechanized, which massed cheap Razorbacks and usually AV13 hulls like Predators and Baal Predators, and Descent of Angels, which massed Jump Infantry like Assault Marines. Mech is still probably viable, except that a Necron airforce list (9+ fliers) will horribly beat you. The jury is out on Jump Infantry. In many ways they improved on paper, but in 6th edition it is now much harder to kill large squads in close combat than in 5th. Airforce type lists with multiple Stormravens are good now too, and the Death Company is now pretty great.

So, what sort of list do you want to run? Whatever you do, you will need more scoring units than you have at present. In case you aren't aware, only Troops choices can claim objectives now, and Death Company have a special rule that makes them non-scoring. I would also suggest you not run a few vehicles, and also not run a 10 man squad of Devastators with 4 Lascannons. It's way too expensive for what you get. 2 squads of 5 with 4 Missile Launchers is a much better idea.

Hi, thanks for the reply.

I suppose I was planing a mostly close combat kind of force rather than shooty. You think it's definitely better to go fully down one route as opposed to trying to balance the two?

I did read that Death Company can't take objectives but thought that terminators could. If they're gonna still be elites then they can't, yeh?

You think I should just load up on assault squads? I know jump packs are expensive and I'm certainly not committed to them but imagine they'd be useful for getting about, claiming objectives.

I'm not that interested in tanks, thought the dreads might just offer a bit of fire power and soak up a bit of attention. I do like the idea of the Land Speeders zooming around though. You dont rate them much?

Thanks again, just reading your guide now


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hi Tom,

Just read your guide. It was very interesting. I totally understand the concepts of your fully mechanised or DoA armies. It makes a lot of sense and already I'm thinking of ditching the dreads and devastators. But, like you acknowledge, many players pick models simply because they look good. I'm definitely one of those players, I don't see many tournament wins in my future and that's OK. I'm always gonna make space for a scary terminator squad. But I'm absolutely going to take some of your advice onboard.

Just a question on how you deal with enemy armour without big guns of your own though. Do you just kinda mob them with assault marines? Do you still get melta bombs? They used to be pretty effective.

And are you expecting many significant changes whenever the new codex is released?

Thanks again

The 6th edition codex is now out, if that's the new codex to which you're referring. There won't be a new BA codex for the foreseeable future.

My guide is now out of date, and wasn't geared towards the casual player anyway. I would suggest you not buy anything for a little while, as I believe two new codexes come out on Saturday. There will likely be some major FAQs for all codexes that will come out after that.

As for Terminators, they were significantly improved by 6th ed, but they still can't score.

I've only run the mechanized list in my guide, although I will probably put together something like the other one at some point. That list really relies on Meltaguns and the Power Fists to pop tanks, historically. In 5th edition, you hit vehicles that moved more than 6" on sixes, and only got 1 attack per Krak Grenade or Meltabomb. Now, you hit on fours at worst against Rear armor, so mass Kraks can do a lot of damage.

 MrEconomics wrote:
The 6th edition codex is now out, if that's the new codex to which you're referring.

I would suggest you not buy anything for a little while, as I believe two new codexes come out on Saturday. There will likely be some major FAQs for all codexes that will come out after that.

So far, there have been no 6th edition codexes released.

There are no codexes coming out this weekend, you are thinking of the new starter box, which has a smaller version of the 6th edition rulebook, but no codexes.

There has already been a wave of FAQs for all of the codexes shortly after 6th edition ruleset was released.

You could go with a dreadnought list with drop pods... Surround it with assault marines, lemartes and your captain and have some fun with a little shooty (dreads) and a lot of CC (death dread, termies).

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. I think I've got a rough idea of how the army is going to go. Like Mr Eco suggested, mostly assault squads with some DC, no tanks, with other units like dreads and terminators as a luxury for bigger games and mostly because they're cool looking.

By the way, can terminators arrive in drop pods, or is it only stormravens and landraiders?

I guess my main concern before I start modelling this army is whether or not the squad wargear allowances are going to change or anything. For example, what if I give all my DC power weapons and then the rules change to make it only 1 in 5 are allowed power weapons like with infernus/plasma pistols?

I know MrEco suggests magnetising everything, which certainly would be handy, but I really really cant be bothered with that hassle, coupled with the hassle of buying alternate arms, shoulder pads and weapons for every marine.

Maybe it's just a gamble.

Nolzur, I've been reading the latest Blood Angels codex which I believe was produced for the 5th ED? Has there been an update faq released since 6th ED? Or do we kinda just have to wait and see whenever they get round to releasing full codicies over the next year or whatever?

You understand that I'd hate to start building only to discover that it's all illegal by the time I finish, you know?

Thanks again

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440134a&categoryId=1000018§ion=&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&start=2&multiPageMode=true

There are updated 6th edition FAQs for every codex.

Thanks for that

OK guys, if anyone's still interested, this is about where I am at the moment. Any thoughts? Just to reitterate, this isn't an intended tournament army, just one that will provide entertainment and hold its own, hopefully, in most battles. This is an initial 1500pts list. The 2000pts list will be the same with the addition of a Terminator Squad w/ Cycclone Missile Launcher, a Terminator Captain and a fuller Death Company. Many thanks again.



Blood Angels 1500pts


HQ

Librarian (100pts)

Honour Guard w/ Blood Champion, Sanguniary Novitiate, 4x Bolt Pistosl, 4x Power Weapons (195pts)



Elites

Chaplain, Melta Bombs, Jump Pack (130pts)



Troops

Assault Squad 1 (235pts)
9x Assault Marines, Hand Flamer, Plasma Pistol, Retain Jump Packs
Sergeant Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs,Power Weapon

Assault Squad 2 (235pts)
9x Assault Marines, Hand Flamer, Infernus Pistol, Retain Jump Packs
Sergeant Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon

Death Company (250pts)
5x Death Company Marine, 5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Chainsword, (100pts),
+Lemartes (150pts)


Fast Attack

Land Speeder, Assault Cannon,Heavy Bolter (90pts)

Land Speeder, Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher (90pts)

Land Speeder, Heavy Bolter, Multi Melta (70pts)



Heavy Support

Dreadnought, Multi Melta, Blood Fist (105pts)


Created with BattleScribe

You haven't added jump packs to the death company.

Honour guard as a cc dudes is a waste given death company or vanguard or termies or sang. guard.

Hand flamers and plasma pistols are not too brilliant and not worth the points.
double melta guns+powersword is very reasonable set up, though I still deciding what actual set up is best.

Dread needs help getting into range, try 2TLautocannon or a drop pod.

Your assault marines really could do with being in range of the priest, pretty much at all times.

Also you will have trouble against flyers.

You have a reasonable list and some really fun units.

Thanks. Cant belive I overlooked the jump packs, there goes one of the land speeders. I'm gonna blame the fact that im new to batttlescribe I think.

With regards to the special weapons choice, I'm kinda struggling to see the benefit of hand flamers as well. I'd like to give them all infernus instead of plasma but I just dont have the bits. Think I only have one or two from the DC box. They never seem to come up on ebay.

The reason I've went cc with the honour guard is that I was planning on magnetising the back packs and running them with jump packs as well occasionally. You dont think there as good as others in cc? Or do you think I should always take at least some mid range assault weapons? I suppose for smaller lists like this I could just not take any honour guard and stick the Librarian with one assault squad and take a priest with the other.

I could look at the autocannon on the dread. Im planning on having a few interchangable arms.

And, yeh, Ive heard that I could struggle with flyers. Think I'll just have to live with that. But if I get soundly beaten by a guy fielding 10 doom sythes or whatever, then who's the real loser there.

Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated.

you can grab all the bits you need on ebay cheap. People sell the plasma and infernus pistols everywhere. You could just magnetize the arms and make 5 of each.

Probably cost you about 15 bucks

Thanks Steve. I'm finding eBay has hardly any infernus pistols. Loads of plasma pistols. I have loads of plasma pistols myself. I'll keep looking though. Actually thinking about maybe converting some out of plasma pistols if I can find anything that looks like melta nozzles.

try spikey bitz
http://www.spikeybits.com/servlet/Categories

Also some sanguinary guard arms have infernus pistols too. you can grab them too i think.

I guess the demand for infernus pistols are eating away whats out there.

Thanks for the link. Good site, especially the "Free International Shipping" bit.