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It's like newspapers. People don't read them to find things out, they read them to vindicate their own opinions.

What surprises me about Dakka is just how aggressively right wing some people are. I compare it to the science fiction and roleplaying fandoms I'm involved in and there is huge tolerance and acceptance of all sorts of people, gay, transgender, anything - very liberal people.

See, what with 40K being a both SF and gaming I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a greater overlap. What I see both inside and outside OffTopic is quite a streak of various prejudices that manifest as mild misogyny or slightly homophobic/racist. For example, I don't really care about the politics of an individual but I didn't expect recentlyon this forum to have to explain why I wouldn't be happy to spend *my* free time playing a person who was a flag waving BNP supporter who was very racist. Apparently, I'm the bigot it that situation because I don't want to socialise with white supremacists while gaming.

As for off topic, well that's where some of these things come to the surface. Now I'm biased as a left wing person, but I think the right wingers are far less open to persuasion on the basis of evidence. All the gay rights and abortion threads go this way, because people stamp their feet about their religious beliefs and think that counts as an 'argument' against historical, social and scientific studies. There's also quite a bit of misogyny in general, it's hardly worth pointing out most of the time but I guess it stems from the belief this is a 'boys hobby'. And what I was saying about some of the more aggressively right wing posters, some are so entrenched and bigoted they really nasty pieces of work. Sorry, but it's true, and I find it actually shocking that they exist in this little offshoot of the wider SF and gaming hobbies/fandoms.

I can change my opinion on things, if I see better evidence for something, a more persuasive piece of research. When doing my scientific work I worked along various ideas and changed and shaped my arguments over time. I actually liked finding better evidence because I was more satisfied I was getting a stronger and more coherent picture even if it had to be modified. I've become a so much more tolerant and accepting of people of all races and orientations, because of the internet. I wouldn't say I've had my mind changed a lot recently in debates, but the first year or so on debating forums changed me a great deal in my late teen and I grew up quite a bit. A lot of that was just having exposure to people from backgrounds I wasn't familiar with, actually getting to talk to people of different races and orientations, because where I'm from everyone is white and I can't recall anyone being openly gay.

As an aside, Ido not have tens of thousands of posts in the off-topic section. Just shy of one third of my posts are made here, about a total of 6500. Meh.

Also I have a vague memory that Off Topic in Dakka wasn't a section dedicated to political and other non-gaming topics. It was specifically treated like a scrap yard to shunt threads going off topic in other parts of the forum so they could just die off, as an alternative to closing or deleting. Am I right about this or was there another section now gone, or was that another forum entirely?

Sadly, even The Economist seems to be suffering from this at times; a certain writer on there, for example keeps misrepresenting Romney and Ryan's budget proposals so that they can claim that they "tackle the deficit" and that no one else has a plan to do so.

Even though they don't... and they're not even complete proposals, missing a lot of specifics that the president's budget did not miss as it was intended as a working budget, not a purely political move that they knew would never pass. Numerous comments have pointed this out, providing dozens of links and hundreds of arguments, but I don't think this particular writer reads them (many writers at TE actually DO read the comments section, and even respond to some, especially posts that point out factual errors), or perhaps, just doesn't care.

I'd have to give a feth about any of you to allow you to change my opinion on anything.

Except food. I've tried some new foods based on opinions I've read here. Always trust a fat man's opinion on food. We have lots of them here...

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
What surprises me about Dakka is just how aggressively right wing some people are.

Just as many, if not more, aggressively left wing people, to be fair. If you disagree with me, then you obviously have a different opinion...

 kronk wrote:
I'd have to give a feth about any of you to allow you to change my opinion on anything.

Except food. I've tried some new foods based on opinions I've read here. Always trust a fat man's opinion on food. We have lots of them here...

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
What surprises me about Dakka is just how aggressively right wing some people are.

Just as many, if not more, aggressively left wing people, to be fair. If you disagree with me, then you obviously have a different opinion...

True and true (well, I don't know about numbers, but both sides are just as vocal and ignorant at times).

Reminds me, we haven't had a good food thread in a while.

 Ouze wrote:

Have you ever had your opinion on a matter, news story, or political position changed by a topic we discussed here in the OT? If so, who and what?

I wouldn't say changed outright, but then I don't have many strong opinions anyway so there isn't much to change. I've definitely gained greater perspective on how different modes of thought tend to manifest, though. I've also reaffirmed one of my only convictions: that hard analysis is always superior to aesthetic analysis.

I won't say that it's changed my opinion on anything, but it's helped me understand the other side of an idea/arguement better.

kronk wrote: If you disagree with me, then you obviously have a different opinion...

Well obviously, that's a bit of a tautology.

You know ,even if it's true that most of the people in the debates will never change their minds, at least they're trying to have intellectual discussions. I hate it when I'm in a debate and people are just leaving stupid snarky posts that don't contribute to the discussion at all. Like this...

Person 1: Skub is the best!

Person 2: Skub is the worst!

Person 1: Skub is the best!

Person 2: Skub is the worst!

Snarky Dude: Oh wow, you guys are so smart. You're definitely not just people getting angry at each other on a forum about toy soldiers.

Those snarky people think they're being edgy or smart or whatever, but they're just being jerkasses.

The thing is, when you've been here long enough the "intelligent debates" get so repetitive that the trolling and snark are the most entertaining part of the thread.

 Monster Rain wrote:
The thing is, when you've been here long enough the "intelligent debates" get so repetitive that the trolling and snark are the most entertaining part of the thread.

Quiet poopie face!
neener neenerneener!!!

The best part of any religious thread is when mattyrm can no longer restrain himself.

 Monster Rain wrote:
The best part of any religious thread is when mattyrm can no longer restrain himself.

I'm a jesus freak and its funny even to me.

It's like he has atheist tourrettes.

 Monster Rain wrote:
The thing is, when you've been here long enough the "intelligent debates" get so repetitive that the trolling and snark are the most entertaining part of the thread.

The thing is, it's only entertaining to the snarker. To everyone else, he's just another jerkass who wants to seem 'above the petty debate'.

Da Boss wrote:
It's like he has atheist tourrettes.

Exalted, good sir!

I rarely join in on a thread of significance bar stupid comments, cos I often I have no opinion or can't word it well enough to consider it an argument. and when I do the other posters, much like in real life, tend to only get half a thought, kind of rendering it pointless.

so in answer to the question yes. the few times i have seriously joined in, one particular poster with their facts and stubbornness has often opened my eyes a little.

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Monster Rain wrote:
The thing is, when you've been here long enough the "intelligent debates" get so repetitive that the trolling and snark are the most entertaining part of the thread.

The thing is, it's only entertaining to the snarker. To everyone else, he's just another jerkass who wants to seem 'above the petty debate'.

Even if that were true, what of it?

 Monster Rain wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Monster Rain wrote:
The thing is, when you've been here long enough the "intelligent debates" get so repetitive that the trolling and snark are the most entertaining part of the thread.

The thing is, it's only entertaining to the snarker. To everyone else, he's just another jerkass who wants to seem 'above the petty debate'.

Even if that were true, what of it?

It's annoying.

Basically, someone is annoyed by a discussion, so they decide to go there and talk about how far they are above it. They're just trying to prove how superior they are to everyone, but no one cares.

Someone seems to care a lot.

Snarky comments and some of the random stuff that is added in. often make a thread more amusing.

 Monster Rain wrote:
Someone seems to care a lot.

I ought to clarify. No one thinks the snarker is superior, intelligent or witty. That's what I meant. The only reason people sometimes reply to the snarker is out of annoyance.

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Monster Rain wrote:
Someone seems to care a lot.

I ought to clarify. No one thinks the snarker is superior, intelligent or witty. That's what I meant. The only reason people sometimes reply to the snarker is out of annoyance.

which generally means he/she wins, due to the fact they are often a troll in disguise.

 nomsheep wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Monster Rain wrote:
Someone seems to care a lot.

I ought to clarify. No one thinks the snarker is superior, intelligent or witty. That's what I meant. The only reason people sometimes reply to the snarker is out of annoyance.

which generally means he/she wins, due to the fact they are often a troll in disguise.

The intent in trolling is to anger someone.

Mildly pestering them with thousands upon thousands of pointless posts isn't very good trolling.

 LoneLictor wrote:

 nomsheep wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Monster Rain wrote:
Someone seems to care a lot.

I ought to clarify. No one thinks the snarker is superior, intelligent or witty. That's what I meant. The only reason people sometimes reply to the snarker is out of annoyance.

which generally means he/she wins, due to the fact they are often a troll in disguise.

The intent in trolling is to anger someone.

Mildly pestering them with thousands upon thousands of pointless posts isn't very good trolling.

Not necessarily, the best/ most successful troll I've encountered did exactly that, then cried to the mods when things went against her. (different site)

Again, being annoying isn't successful trolling. Successful trolling is when you get them to post furious death threats in caps locks. Just being a pest isn't trolling, it's being a pest.

I have changed my mind plenty of times, but then, I tend to have longer and more intellectual conversations with people because I am far more pleasant and well mannered than most of you backwards ill-mannered fething dolts.

 mattyrm wrote:
I have changed my mind plenty of times, but then, I tend to have longer and more intellectual conversations with people because I am far more pleasant and well mannered than most of you backwards ill-mannered fething dolts.

Ah, classic comedy routine