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 Razgriz22 wrote:
I feel an aggressive eldar force in 6th edition.... isnt even an eldar force. Its a Dark eldar force with Eldar allies. Utilising both teams jetbikes and abusing fortune 2++ saves. At least it aint a flying circus

*shakes head* way to not answer his well thought out questions and statements.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

 Razgriz22 wrote:
I feel an aggressive eldar force in 6th edition.... isnt even an eldar force. Its a Dark eldar force with Eldar allies. Utilising both teams jetbikes and abusing fortune 2++ saves. At least it aint a flying circus

*shakes head* way to not answer his well thought out questions and statements.

And yet my post STILL added more to this thread then yours just did....I don't know why you even felt the need to post if that's all you had to say.

Moving on...
I do agree agressive eldar is slightly more difficult to play in 6th but as I stated it is boosted by bringing in another team that can match eldar a speed and aggressiveness. Dark eldar bring things to the table that eldar don't. So it allows for a wider set of "tools" to use so to speak.

Seer councils..... Hmmm that's sort of a love hate relationship. I think they are still viable as they are just as tough to kill. But as always, sting tactics must be used with them. Witchblades still have a decent effect at rear armour 10. They are also still great at forcing saves in cc. But I find myself taking a few more spears now. But that reduces the amount of attacks I put out in CC. So I guess tailoring the unit to Try to match up against what you will be using it for. Maybe they just lack a general direction now?

An expensive but still very useful tactic is taking along an autarch as well with a laser lace, mandis, and fusion gun. No MEQs can stand up to that.

Another thing I have seen done is baby council compromising of gjb's a warlock with embolden, enhance, or destructor with spear, and a farseer With fortune and maybe doom. Possibly adding the baron for a 3+/4++ for all the bikes and the ability to hit and run.

 Razgriz22 wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

 Razgriz22 wrote:
I feel an aggressive eldar force in 6th edition.... isnt even an eldar force. Its a Dark eldar force with Eldar allies. Utilising both teams jetbikes and abusing fortune 2++ saves. At least it aint a flying circus

*shakes head* way to not answer his well thought out questions and statements.

And yet my post STILL added more to this thread then yours just did....I don't know why you even felt the need to post if that's all you had to say.

Well you seem to be the one trying to mine information here, someone posted up a really well written post on the topic, and you completely ignored it
And now your "Moving on..." having a conversation with yourself, since the last person to post up part of the eldar/DE dialogue you ignored and kept waffling =\


*pulls out chair popcorn and beer* I'm curious to see how long you waffle to yourself

My "moving on" comment was aimed at speaking with big Mek. I then continued on to more thoroughly answering/ discussing the topic of agressive eldar and seer councils. Which was asked about a few comments back. So I really have no idea what you ate talking about.

See, Here's my thing. First and foremost, I am beginning to seriously hate the idea of allies, because it's causing us all to lose focus on our armies. "Oh well...we just don't have that, so we're going to go to another army and get it" Is not an answer when trying to look at the strengths and weaknesses of our main force. If I wanted to play dark eldar, trust me, I'd be playing dark eldar. So things like the baron, or kabalite warrior, or any of that is completely not a look at agressive eldar.

So, with dark eldar off the table (hopefully), at that point, I would like to begin a discussion on what I feel are our most viable units, and a look at ways of continuing to use them. Now, unfortunately, all armies fall into routine. So, constant talks of "banshee's suck" and "Dark reapers are no good, use 3x3 war walkers!" allow us to build our armies into ruts. Now, keep in mind, as a saim-hainn player, I have a thing for speed, and I'm interested in people's takes on Shining spears. Comparitively, they are already 10 points cheaper than warlocks w/o powers, and despite the power weapon nerf, still hit at 6 and 8 (exarch star lance) respectively. At that point, for those of us interested in running a second seer, would a single fortune seer with a spear allow us to create a minor death-star from this seemingly under-used unit? I know we're not talking Nob bikerz or anything, but that's alot of ap3 ass kicking, and it can move really really fast. What does anyone else think? Spears get a bit of a new lease on life with both Hammer of Wrath and the new JB rules?

And despite thier general weakness, I would like to visit Vypers, and also with that, hull points. War-walkers are very much considered to be one of the better Heavy support choices that we have, mostly due to volumes of fire. But they are slow. very very slow. They are also AV 10, and only carry two hull points. So, for example, I brought 3 to a fight with my Ork buddy recently, they popped out, killed 3 damned orks (scatter walkers with bad dice), but man, three dead orks, and then BAM, the dakkajet ended all of three of them. Based on that, and the fact that the vypers now all have jink, similar volumes of fire to a war walker ( a shuricannon and a scatter laser is still 7 shots), is it worth the point cost for lots of mobility, similar dakka, and with night fight, very consistant cover saves? Oh, and freeing up our heavy support slots.

I know this is a thread for all eldar, dark and craftworld, but I think right now, with DE having a new codex and more options, we eldar players need to look beyond over-costed units and ap3 banshees, and really try and see how a 4th ed codex fairs on its own merits.

Oh, and as a matter of course, I would also like to hear success stories of people running autachs, because as it stands, I cannot for the life of me find a single moment, in any list, or any fight, where an autarch adds something I couldn't be doing better with a Farseer. And adding a single melta, or a few power weapon attacks doesn't seem worth what normally costs more than most of our special characters.

I would say that the warp spiders are sort of an unsung hero squad. I have never heard anyone complain about them but I also don't see them fielded all the time. I plan on purchasing the models in the near future and giving them a go.

Mobile walkers..... Aka..... Vypers. I haven't quite been impressed with them, but then again, I haven't really had to much bad to say for them either. The jink save gives them that added bit of survivability which is nice. But their price always turns me off. Unless I want a strict skimmer/ jetbike army, I end up cutting them. The 24" of the Shuriken cannon always has turned me off. Maybe I am just spoiled with the scatter laser. But if I'm in 24" then so are they. S4 shots have a way of ending av10, 2 hull point vehicles. But maybe I am just being too precautions with them... Idk. I usually get my S6 fill elsewhere. Which really sucks because I like their fluff and models and I have a group of 3, just never really use them :-(.

Shining spears, now we are talking :-). I was a little scared to ask about them due to the amount of people who would scream "they are trash!!" at me. But a group of 5 (1 being an exArch) with a fortune seer would be a death all of ap3 goodness. Not quite as resilient as a normal council but still hits certain things harder then one. I don't have their stats Infront of me but the only thing I remember hating was the amount of attacks they have on the charge. If you take the autarch with lance and all that jaz, you should have more then enough attacks.

Which leads to the next thig you mentioned. The autarchs. I have always loved their fluff and how you can just scratch build them to suit your needs. But they don't fit in everywhere. I have taken one with my seer council before to give them more of a punch. Six S6 attacks on the charge at a high initiative (boosted even higher with enhance) was just solid. He single handedly would wreck squads before anyone else even swung. Is he worth the points spent? That is always a tough question. If his reserve modifier helps you out at all then maybe he is more worth it. I'd say he is an average pick but can be used very well in the hands of a smart player. Pretty sure he comes stock with haywire grenades as well (can't quite remember) so he can help a little there too.

I would like to see/ hear how a shining spear council plays out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And when you take an autarch vs a farseer... That's a tough comparison. I would almost always take a second farseer. The only time I have actually ever fielded autarchs is on a bike with a lance as I mentioned above. Outside of that role, I just don't see the worth. a foot slogging autarch Is always beaten out by the avatar. The only oter thing I could think of is a jet pack autarch with spiders to give the unit a fusion gun and larger beat stick for combat. But for the price... I don't think it would be worth it.

Razgriz22 wrote:My "moving on" comment was aimed at speaking with big Mek. I then continued on to more thoroughly answering/ discussing the topic of agressive eldar and seer councils. Which was asked about a few comments back. So I really have no idea what you ate talking about.

Which was the purpose in my post was to get you to not brush off his comment...

VegaGreywolf wrote:See, Here's my thing. First and foremost, I am beginning to seriously hate the idea of allies, because it's causing us all to lose focus on our armies. "Oh well...we just don't have that, so we're going to go to another army and get it" Is not an answer when trying to look at the strengths and weaknesses of our main force. If I wanted to play dark eldar, trust me, I'd be playing dark eldar. So things like the baron, or kabalite warrior, or any of that is completely not a look at agressive eldar.

So, with dark eldar off the table (hopefully), at that point, I would like to begin a discussion on what I feel are our most viable units, and a look at ways of continuing to use them. Now, unfortunately, all armies fall into routine. So, constant talks of "banshee's suck" and "Dark reapers are no good, use 3x3 war walkers!" allow us to build our armies into ruts. Now, keep in mind, as a saim-hainn player, I have a thing for speed, and I'm interested in people's takes on Shining spears. Comparitively, they are already 10 points cheaper than warlocks w/o powers, and despite the power weapon nerf, still hit at 6 and 8 (exarch star lance) respectively. At that point, for those of us interested in running a second seer, would a single fortune seer with a spear allow us to create a minor death-star from this seemingly under-used unit? I know we're not talking Nob bikerz or anything, but that's alot of ap3 ass kicking, and it can move really really fast. What does anyone else think? Spears get a bit of a new lease on life with both Hammer of Wrath and the new JB rules?

And despite thier general weakness, I would like to visit Vypers, and also with that, hull points. War-walkers are very much considered to be one of the better Heavy support choices that we have, mostly due to volumes of fire. But they are slow. very very slow. They are also AV 10, and only carry two hull points. So, for example, I brought 3 to a fight with my Ork buddy recently, they popped out, killed 3 damned orks (scatter walkers with bad dice), but man, three dead orks, and then BAM, the dakkajet ended all of three of them. Based on that, and the fact that the vypers now all have jink, similar volumes of fire to a war walker ( a shuricannon and a scatter laser is still 7 shots), is it worth the point cost for lots of mobility, similar dakka, and with night fight, very consistant cover saves? Oh, and freeing up our heavy support slots.

I know this is a thread for all eldar, dark and craftworld, but I think right now, with DE having a new codex and more options, we eldar players need to look beyond over-costed units and ap3 banshees, and really try and see how a 4th ed codex fairs on its own merits.

Oh, and as a matter of course, I would also like to hear success stories of people running autachs, because as it stands, I cannot for the life of me find a single moment, in any list, or any fight, where an autarch adds something I couldn't be doing better with a Farseer. And adding a single melta, or a few power weapon attacks doesn't seem worth what normally costs more than most of our special characters.

You bring very good points and obviously I am familiar with your play style. In my personal opinions, Eldar are still best built 2 ways, soft gunline [I say soft cause i saw what allies could do tonight (Guard and Orks) and barely endured it... ] Or cleaning off weak objectives and contesting others. The first idea is how i use to play them all the time, I would use snipers to force them foreward dire avengers to deal with armor 2 or hordes and banshees for the assualt back in the day. not and days mechcanized lists aren't too used though but i oddly enough find vec squadrons becoming more powerful and frequent. I really like the idea of shining spears and the fact is since guns have become such a hard staple in this edition you could very easily clear distance resist heavy fire and engage the enemy in close combat. Tonight i found NO SQUADS capable of bearing an assualt, so all i did was just rush my last enemy and punch him clean in the face with shoota boyz, You can do that just as well dropping artillery and weak troops (even marines), stay engaged for your assualt and disengage after his own with nearly a guaranteed chance of success and move into a new unit letting your scatter lasers and/or snipers finish off the skeleton of a even 20-30 model unit if hit properly it's all about using everything as effectively as possible.

I also agree whole heartedly about Allies and I fully support tourneys that allow them because it provides far too much power to people who want to min max. If this threat is purely about mixing the two it's a shame because it's rarely being done now because no one is enjoying the dumb combinations starting to spring up and doing what you are doing is perfectly acceptable and encouraged by most players to learn your own rather than cheese out as much as possible like a few people I've already wasted too much time with. Learning how to use the Eldar as best as possible and cope with changes rather than try and fill in the gaps is the proper way to play, i just hope that eldar gets it's update soon is all

Vypers have always been more my playstyle, and the fact you can take cover just for moving makes them so much better now in my mind as a fast attack compared to the horrible alternatives which seem far too overpriced to me.... that being said vypers aren't cheap... but compared to other choices which just don't seem to pay for themselves the way i would like to see... i suggest them before anything else except shining spears obviously.

Autarchs... you are on your own they are a horrible option they only paid off for me back in 4th ed and that was it.

Thanks guys. Those are the kinda things I'm hoping to get kicking in this thread. As i continue to battle-test stuff, I will keep my questions and opinions going.

Getting ready for work this morning, I read the comments, and thought about something. Vypers and thier cost.

As eldar players, we get used to paying though the nose, pretty much consistantly. but lets look at the unit that is kinda staples of our world. The Warwalkers (again, they fill a similar role).

If you look at the vyper, in it's classic incarnation ( shuri-cannon and scatter laser) it literally only runs 10 pts more than a dual scatter war-walker (most common there too) You give up out-flank, and you give up another shot and a bit of range on one gun, but you gain lots of mobility, and a spammable cover saves. and with hull points, I would think more survivability.

The only moment that they become more efficent is the out-flanking double shuri walker, and there, your getting into almost double points. but the shuri-walker is a VERY specific build for a very specific purpose, and I don't think you can make it anything else. the range is too short to be anything but a harrying unit.

But for basic fire support and survivability (I'm lookin' at you, dakka jet!), I think the nod, even at 10 points, now a days goes to the vyper. Now, if only the'd let the vyper "jetbike" have JB movement rules, we'd all be happy and go out and buy lots of 'em.

So I tried out the guardian jetbike mini seer council thing today. It was a real tough unit to kill. And could fly in and contest an objective and fight to control it and not get sent packing. The downfall being it just didt pack the kind of firepower i felt it needed too. But if your lookig for a SOLID troop choice, that is something that I never Realy thought of, but it works for that. A tough scoring unit that is hard to wipe out.

I think I tried to play it like a normal council though. So that could have been a bad player error on my part.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I tried the 3 outflanking dual Shuriken walkers as well. And I just didbt see the results I wanted. I did have some bad bs 3 rolling though. I honestly would have rather taken vypers that game. So maybe I will dust those bad boys off :-).

 VegaGreywolf wrote:


So, with dark eldar off the table (hopefully), at that point,

except the title of the thread is "40K ELDAR and DARK ELDAR thread." There are plenty of mono Eldar and mono DE threads about.

 Exergy wrote:

 VegaGreywolf wrote:


So, with dark eldar off the table (hopefully), at that point,

except the title of the thread is "40K ELDAR and DARK ELDAR thread." There are plenty of mono Eldar and mono DE threads about.

So now you are excluding people? Wow leave it to snooty eldar

I kid, but in all seriousness wouldn't asking questions about either or someone stating they only want a single part of the dual information be successful?

You want the optimization of Eldar and/or Dark eldar allies? You should be inviting discussions about them from all sectors and facets even if their needs do not match the original post, which is all he was doing; stating he thinks people need to brush up on an old codex a bit more than pat each other on the back about how cool Dark eldar are.

Hey DARKNESS ETERNAL, the dark reaper exarch powers include both crack shot, and fast shot. The exarxh has BS 5, with a tempest launcher, which is Heavy 2 blast, S 4, AP 3 (marines). you are rerolling scatter with guide, and crack ignores cover saves taken against this weapon. AND makes you reroll wounds. thats hits AND wound, AP 3, No armour, No cover. Rerolling both hits and wounds. do you see the death now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HEY EVERYONE

Id love to hear your thoughts on a 1000 point eldar army ive got going.

HQ - Eldrad (210)
TROOP1 - Pathfinders x (6) (144)
TROOP2 - Pathfinders x (6) (144)
HEAVY1 - Dark Reapers x (5) exrk, temp L, crack S, (205)
HEAVY3 - Wrathlord, 2 flamers, missile L, B lance (150)
HEAVY4 - Wrathlord, 2 flamers, missile L, B lance (150)

1003p
This is an ally battle, my ally is playing Nob rush orcs. against space wolves and chaos (nurgle)

 CorpseCommander wrote:
Hey DARKNESS ETERNAL, the dark reaper exarch powers include both crack shot, and fast shot. The exarxh has BS 5, with a tempest launcher, which is Heavy 2 blast, S 4, AP 3 (marines). you are rerolling scatter with guide, and crack ignores cover saves taken against this weapon. AND makes you reroll wounds. thats hits AND wound, AP 3, No armour, No cover. Rerolling both hits and wounds. do you see the death now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HEY EVERYONE

Id love to hear your thoughts on a 1000 point eldar army ive got going.

HQ - Eldrad (210)
TROOP1 - Pathfinders x (6) (144)
TROOP2 - Pathfinders x (6) (144)
HEAVY1 - Dark Reapers x (5) exrk, temp L, crack S, (205)
HEAVY3 - Wrathlord, 2 flamers, missile L, B lance (150)
HEAVY4 - Wrathlord, 2 flamers, missile L, B lance (150)

1003p
This is an ally battle, my ally is playing Nob rush orcs. against space wolves and chaos (nurgle)

Wraithlords are more than likely killed from long-fangs and obliteraters, Dark reapers will scare enemy so Space wolves will probably drop a deadnought or grey hunters via drop point in front of them unless completely sheilded by wraithlords, Path Finders will i assume be holding objectives? this will mean the easiest way to disrupt your movements is Jaws of the war wolf on orc Bikers as well as demon prince declaring a challenge and buying the entire army time to fight , shoot and move away and positon the army to continue iron clad wall your offensive unit.

it's dangerous but to many armies they will sense you have no true way to dealing with them in CC once the wraithlords are down, the orks should be used defensively rather than aggressively.

My ally, hes going to run 40 boys, 10 nobs, with warboss in trukk, maybe a battlewagon, and or aegis defence for me, and marybe ard boys, but basically a footslogging transport army, do you have any suggestions for defence against getting drop podded first turn by space wolves, whether termies or dready..

Been following this for a while too and I thought I'd chime in.

So far, I've found that 6th edition has been very kind to Eldar on the whole - Jetbikes got a major boost, our psychic powers got harder to block on the whole (barring Doom) and our shooting just got better.

However, needless to say, our sub-par assault units got even worse - to the point where Scorpions and especially Banshees are near unusable.

Despite this however, my games have shown me that the Seer Council is now definately a credible threat again - Fortune is godly in 6th (and I feel, a neccessity for Eldar) and the ability to be in your opponent's deployment zone in turn one - while no longer needing to forego Fortune - is unreal. I think the Council is definately the way to go for a take-all-comers style Eldar list, especially when Eldrad is sitting in the back supporting War Walkers etc.

Iranna.

I'm a Dark Eldar player, naver played Eldar as primary so can't comment too much on that subject. I have been finding that War Walkers are a great addition to DE, however.

High volume Str 6 shooting is great when paired with double figures of lances and high volume splinter. It fills the hole (armour 10-11) that those guns are not optimal for and can shift to infantry chewing if there's nothing else. Outflanking with them is also extremely complementary as 2 voidravens arriving upfield the same turn war walkers pop up from the rear is simply excellent. Makes decisions on what to shoot difficult even for gunline guard (especially when the rest of your army is filthy with venoms and contains a ravger).

Ok, few things to comment on, and something to ask the collective. First and foremost, gonna comment on Corpse Commander's list.

First and foremost, the thing I'm seeing in that list is an eldar gunline without the guns to back it up. I don't want that to sound cruel, but let me explain my position. Eldar have 3 things we can spam the hell out of: Psychic powers, Mobility, and str 6 bullets by the boat load. You have, in that list, taken a very quality heavy army. Now, granted, your playing with orks, so that's good that you have someone to rely, but here's my thing. Rangers are good for camping on your objective, and not drawing attention to themselves. As an eldar player, one thing I hate to do, so much that i forget to even when it's tactically useful, is move my rangers. I don't care what needs claiming, i pick a good spot, and they stay there, as long as they can. Using two squads gets you alot of very powerful shooting, but you loose mobility, and you have nothing that can quick claim an objective, or try to go for little quick victories (i.e. end game contests, or end-game linebreaker). The one squad's good, but I would say maybe some jetbikes? maybe some dAs? but something you can get across a battlefield if you need to.

the wraithlords....ver powerful mobile fire base, and each one only has two shots. Yes, it's two shots a BS 4, but it's two shots. means, if you have to fire at infantry, your killing 2-6 (depending on how you roll, and how much he packs his guys together for the small blast). If you want to use them both, great, but make one, say, scatters and eml, and the other eml and lance for a little bit of flexability. Or, for close to thier points, you might be able to do some walkers or (if you push it) vypers to provide supporting fire to the tank-cracking WL.

Love Dark reapers, ain't gonna talk bad about them. They are nasty to anything with a 3+ save, from tervigons to trygons to marines.

NOW, first of my two topics for discussion. Multiple seers instead of Eldrad. I feel you get better coverage and more options taking, say, a doom and fortune seer in your council, and a guide and doom seer in the back. They can get expensive, and you have to REALLY build them for thier jobs, but you get a better area of affect going that way, and you can end up with 4 powers for only a little more than eldrad. What do other people think? Is a two-seer list viable, or is eldrad still our king of kings?

The other thing I wanted people's opinion on tonight was your experiences with / thoughts on Shining spears in 6th. I know there's this big shy away from assault right now, but let me give an example. Last week, I have a game against a buddie's space-wolves with my Sam-hainn list. I had a fortune and doom seer flying around with a squad of 4 spears (hit and run, star lance exarch, with a cannon on his bike). gonna say, bs 5 on a shrui-cannon is awesome to lead with going into an assault, and fun to plink with from the outside till you decide to assault. But here's the thing. Based on our rules, with a star-lance, we're still hitting with a str 8 ap 3 weapon on the charge for 3 attacks. That's auto-kills for alot of non-monsterous creatures. And, since the laser lance is a power-lance that hits for str 6 (and that's still true), we have a quick hitting assault unit that, unless it's a termie, we're killing the minute we hit it. I wiped a full squad of long-fangs, turned, and while I didn't get my second charge off, I still hit hard when I had to. Plus, with the new change to power-lances, we still count as ap4 when not on the charge. Much better than the str 3 slappy fights we had in 4th and 5th. Running with the seer, and not only did i have an invunerable save to throw challenges at, but got re-rollable 3+, with lots of heavy duty power weapons on the charge. They take some finess, but as long as you don't get caught with your but in the wind, they can do alot of damage very quickly. And before anyone comes at me with cost, the cost 10 points less than a 'lock on a bike, and 20 points if you give them any power other than embolden. That can make for a very durable, very hard hiting council alternative if your looking for such a thing. What do other's think? are Shining spears worth taking? Or not?

I personally love the hit and run aspect of the Shining Spears, I like the flexibility of them.

I agree with the quality heavy list, i fear outflanking landraiders, deep stiking termies, dready etc. these tactics have been to most devastating to me. how ever i feel confident that my 2 6 man squads will preform well because of my pinning checks, and ap1 on hits of 5+6. rending then again on wounds if not already ap 1. thats all units being no armour. my wraithlords perhaps need a change. should i change both to 1 brightlance, 1 scatter or star?
i want to maintain a no armour saves army. this i find can make an enemy feel sick to their stomach about charging your ass when youve ticked em off.
I think veyga youve given me some of the best advice yet, any more with the wraithlord strategy that i can use to effectively keep them alive and firing?
and my original list was so:
1000
eldrad,
dark reapers x5, tempest, exarch, crack,fast
pathfinders x 6
dire avengers x 10
wave serpent, star engines, star cannon, spirit stones,
wraithlord, BR, Missile, 2 flamers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also think running a jetbike army is briliant, accept for the price. unless you buy on dakka or ebay
However, it is somewhat boring if you dont like assault much
:/ which is me.
BTW also wondering which do you feel is a better army for my aly in tourney,
DE or ORCS
DE
probably vect, or hemonculous,
if vect, in raider, hemonculous with 10 trueborn
then 1 more raider with kabalite x 10,
and 2 wrack squads, maybe a ravager
basically snipers and some cheap CC

ORCS
trukk with 10 man nobs with warboss, 2 x 20 boy squads, 20 ard boys, and a deffrolla battle wagon
basically objective spam and meat shields



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh nobs are in trukk
too

The thing about jetbikes (and keep in mind, I'm bias) is the fact that, even a min squad of 3 with an embolden-lock (around the price, points wise, as your rangers, maybe a bit less) gives you access to turn 5-6 fun. Get to the bottom of turn 6, and what happens? if you went second, turbo boost across the field, and claim line-breaker for an extra objective point. See a lone objective an opponent forget about? away they go, and grab that point for you. If your not using them as the heart of your army, like I do, a small squad can give you some late-game awesomeness, if you use 'em right. And if your using them for that, I'd say reserve them (keep 'em from getting shot up, you know?)

Wraithlords. The thing about them is, really, why do you want to keep them from getting shot? The thing to understand about them, as the last bastion of T8 in the game, they remain VERY VERY scary to any oppoent staring them down. And best part is, if they are firing on your wraithlords, they are NOT firing on your Dark reapers, far-seer, ect. I recommended more shots on them because, and this is kinda important, the more shots you can focus into single squads on your opponents side, the more likely you are to claim first-blood. Unless they just happen to have a boat-load of lascannons, wraithlords can be pretty hard to bring down. But, they are also really big, and hard to protect. Pray the toughness brings you though.

And kinda a final comment on all this. In terms of allies, I don't use 'em much, but if it was me, I'd be bringing orks. They provide a few things you don't have: namely cover, and bodies. (oh and if you go DE, don't bring the space pimp. Vect is WAY over-priced for someone who doesn't do assault. If you have to take DE, take baron instead). I mean, basic contingent of orks, take two squads of 30 shoota boys, nobs with claws, big shootas, and a big-mech with a KFF. If you want more fire power, bring lootas. And more boyz. But bring VOLUMES of bodies, not quality units like nobs. Let your orks handle the trash, let your eldar handle the elite, and screen with big, green bodies.

Because keep in mind, while your running an armor denial army, what do you do when your staring at a 'nid player with 4 tervagons that produce 36-50 gaunts a turn? What do you do against 120 ork boyz infront of cannons and lootas? Or, gods help us all, foot-guard? Right now, your spec-ed to kill the hell out of some marines. But anything coming at you in mass is gonna give you alot of trouble. Try and find a nice balance, and your army will slowly begin to handle more smoothly.

Well, so far for me, I've found that the need for speed is paramount in the 6th ed. This is especially true when playing with the Hammer & Anvil deployment .

My list (for 1750pt games) is consists of:-

Eldrad
Farseer: Spirit Stones, Guide, Fortune
3 GJB + Shu.Cnn
3 GJB + Shu.Cnn
3 GJB + Shu.Cnn
6 Fire Dragons
5 Fire Dragons
3 Vypers: Starcnns, Shu.Cnns
2 Vypers: Starcnns, Shu.Cnns
2 Vypers: Scatterlasers, Shu.Cnns
Falcon: Pulse Laser, Starcnn, Shu.cnn
Falcon: Pulse Laser, Starcnn, Shu.cnn
Falcon: Pulse Laser, Starcnn, Shu.cnn

Main problem is against AV12 flyers (Stormravens & Vendettas). I have better luck against the other flyers (Ork Bommers, Stormtalons, Razorwing) though.

So guys i played in the tourney with my list of
Eldrad
2 x 6man squads of pathfinders
1 wraithlord
5 dark reapers
aegis wall with quad gun.

ally, true born squad with 3 lances
ravager
hemonculus
wrack squad
eldrad
2 squads of dire avengers

OUTCOME

we were survivable against everybody. pathfinders were amazing at pinning and monstrous creatures
the trueborns were tough against vehicles and infantry HQ's
the ravager was amazing with eldrad buffs.
the wracks were good at merely keeping assault units at bay for a bit
the wraithlord served as a body guard quite well
dire avengers help objectives and served to thin out infantry squads with blade storm
as well as overwatch efficiently

BTW we faced a nid army with a tervagon tubes got tied first round and it got shot up. I guess we got lucky but the pathfinders would have been brutal to the pin check for a turn




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We took 3rd
although we were in second. and killing first place.
we lost the final round due to fething linebreaker rule which in my opinion is complete BS as we wiped the NID/ DE army off the table by 90%
tied objectives, had 1 and took first blood and two warlord kills.
still lost because they hid their nids in the back near the objective. so they got 2 and got line breaker with 4 guys.
BAGHHH Fkk SHTTT

Im assuming you took book powers for eldrad? And not the normal codex powers. I was just curious as to what powers the Ravager was benefiting from?

Eldrad 1
-Doom
-Guide
-Fortune
-Mind war
- Eldrich Storm

Eldrad 2
-Misfortune
-Precognition
-Prescience
-Forwarning

this allows to give units multiple buffs per turn while allowing for a variety of buffs to address ant type of situation that occurs during an unpredictable enemy turn. 4 up invul+ is amazing power when combined with fortune makes for a super resistant unit that will definitely survive any attack. this is amazing for a tank or high point value unit that is likely to be targeted. My reapers have been a strategy for along time, and when they sit in between two farseers that can either give them an invul+, fortune, guide, or doom the unit they target it means that you have a survivable mass murderer of infantry god i love the 2 farseer combo its amazing now with powers that can be rolled or chosen.
This battle allowed a team to take 2 of the same character, in a singles tournament however I would take Eldrad and an additional farseer with 3-4 powers taking probably rulebook perhaps codex powers to provide some stability in game.

Eldar players- use 2 farseer its called Buffing Beatdown Bro.


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BTW the ravager was benefiting from an invul save of 4+ and ALWAYS fortune. Sometimes a Jink save when necessary.

1. As far as I know, you can not take 2 of the same named characters even when using the double FOC at 2000 pts. Dont quote me there but I believe that is true. And if it is, then there is no double eldrad that can be happeneing.

2. You cant target the ravager with fortune. Fortune only targets ELDAR units.

 Razgriz22 wrote:
1. As far as I know, you can not take 2 of the same named characters even when using the double FOC at 2000 pts. Dont quote me there but I believe that is true. And if it is, then there is no double eldrad that can be happeneing.

2. You cant target the ravager with fortune. Fortune only targets ELDAR units.

it looks like they are doing a 2v2 in which case you can use any ally rules you want as they are not covered in the rulebook.

As I stated in my message. I dont think he read my whole message.

And Btw. Dark eldar are ELDAR, same race, different licing space. Its like saying humans instead of space marines or inperial guard.
and also the rulebook states battle brothers can benefit from warlord traits and psychic powers in battle.
DE and Eld are BB's so its all cool.

 CorpseCommander wrote:
As I stated in my message. I dont think he read my whole message.

And Btw. Dark eldar are ELDAR, same race, different licing space. Its like saying humans instead of space marines or inperial guard.
and also the rulebook states battle brothers can benefit from warlord traits and psychic powers in battle.
DE and Eld are BB's so its all cool.

Except p3 of the Eldar Codex FAQ explicity states the exact opposite of your arguement. Can't cast Fortune on a Ravager.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570042a_Eldar_v1.1.pdf

The FAQ was written specifically Agaisnt the notion of dark eldar being the same as eldar. They are two separate entities. The same as comparing ultra marines and grey knights.

Indeed, unfortunately their name is their race, so it goes both ways. But I see what your saying its just Im finding room for argument. The Faq does say no fortune, guide, however it says nothing about the rulebook powers not being able to work so full steam ahead with that.

Also guys, has anyone run DE lists when allying with eldar. Im curious what you guys think about raider gunboats.
I was curious also if anyone has a take on the UPGRADES for Raiders.

3 lists Im thinking of.

A vect.
raider (upgrades?) Splinter, night shields, (maybe retro jets?)
10 kabalite wrs. blaster, darklance, sybarite, blasters pwr weapon,

OR

A vect. w.DIAS
see above (none)
10 Kabalite wrs. Blaster, Darklance.

OR

A vect
Raider (upgrades?) retro jets, splinter wracks, Night sheilds, maybe flicker f. for INVUL not cover, covers weak when DS near enemies, need CC protection.
True born x 10 w/ 3 blasters 1 Darklance,
Kabalite wrs x 5 w/ (nothing)

CAN roughly spend 525-575 points for this army so if you have a DE codex and can add it up
while your suggesting it Id appreciate it.