Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sounds like they are making the codex the prototype for the next vanilla marines one again which means it will be once more pointless to play them and the elites are still too crowded screaming master of Deathwing or Ravenwing appear at every DA battle from squad patrol upwards .

Vermillion wrote:
Sounds like they are making the codex the prototype for the next vanilla marines one again which means it will be once more pointless to play them and the elites are still too crowded screaming master of Deathwing or Ravenwing appear at every DA battle from squad patrol upwards .

Even though the rumor is that Deathwing are supposed to be in the codex as Troops choices? Yep, I sure will be seeing Belial every game! Where are you getting the idea that they're a prototype for Codex: Space Marines again? Historically it's been the case, but right now it just looks like you didn't really read the OP.

 Brother SRM wrote:

Vermillion wrote:
Sounds like they are making the codex the prototype for the next vanilla marines one again which means it will be once more pointless to play them and the elites are still too crowded screaming master of Deathwing or Ravenwing appear at every DA battle from squad patrol upwards .

Even though the rumor is that Deathwing are supposed to be in the codex as Troops choices? Yep, I sure will be seeing Belial every game! Where are you getting the idea that they're a prototype for Codex: Space Marines again? Historically it's been the case, but right now it just looks like you didn't really read the OP.

Am I missing something? Don't the rumours in the OP still have Belial unlocking Terminators as troops?

 Brother SRM wrote:

Vermillion wrote:
Sounds like they are making the codex the prototype for the next vanilla marines one again which means it will be once more pointless to play them and the elites are still too crowded screaming master of Deathwing or Ravenwing appear at every DA battle from squad patrol upwards .

Even though the rumor is that Deathwing are supposed to be in the codex as Troops choices? Yep, I sure will be seeing Belial every game! Where are you getting the idea that they're a prototype for Codex: Space Marines again? Historically it's been the case, but right now it just looks like you didn't really read the OP.

While I don't necessarily agree with him, I will say that the rumors we've seen thus far don't really convince me enough will change to make DA truly stand apart from C:SM. Hoping the new units rumored aren't just the chaplain squad and plasma pred, that DA will get something that isn't just going to be handed over to C:SM in 6 months.

 English Assassin wrote:

Am I missing something? Don't the rumours in the OP still have Belial unlocking Terminators as troops?

From the OP:

There are two basic troops choices and not just one.
Tactical Squad and Deathwing are troops.

I do share the worry that GW won't make them different enough to keep them from being Space Marines with a few minor changes, but we'll see soon enough.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 English Assassin wrote:

Am I missing something? Don't the rumours in the OP still have Belial unlocking Terminators as troops?

From the OP:

There are two basic troops choices and not just one.
Tactical Squad and Deathwing are troops.

I do share the worry that GW won't make them different enough to keep them from being Space Marines with a few minor changes, but we'll see soon enough.

So I was missing something, sorry.

So far a differentiating Dark Angels from regular Marines goes, I'm in two minds. Obviously new stuff is interesting, as is a greater breadth of tactical options; on the other hand I don't want Deathwing to be so far removed from regular Terminators in terms of equipment that it will no longer be easy to made a "1st Company" list for any chapter just by taking a Terminator-armoured Captain as a counts-as Belial.

FWIW The "3 week old" rumours in the OP does say Belial unlocks Deathwing as troops.

I don't personally see Chaos next month now that the back image has been shown. The last few back images have hinted at what is to come, and I doubt they would cover the starter set again.

Who knows, maybe it'll be a double Codex release.

If there does turn out to be a Deathwing box and it's anywhere near the GK terminator quality then we'll have a lot of happy campers.

 Brother SRM wrote:

Vermillion wrote:
Sounds like they are making the codex the prototype for the next vanilla marines one again which means it will be once more pointless to play them and the elites are still too crowded screaming master of Deathwing or Ravenwing appear at every DA battle from squad patrol upwards .

Even though the rumor is that Deathwing are supposed to be in the codex as Troops choices? Yep, I sure will be seeing Belial every game! Where are you getting the idea that they're a prototype for Codex: Space Marines again? Historically it's been the case, but right now it just looks like you didn't really read the OP.

I don't know about "historically". It happened once. And it was terrible! But the codex before that was also terrible, and that was because it was an undercooked 3rd edition slim-dex (with some hasty, arbitrary updates shoved in afterwards).

I like the rumoured Flakk upgrade rule. There's no reason a standard missile launcher should become even more of a no-brainer swiss army knife.

Yeah, Codex Angels of Death was after Codex Ultramarines in 2nd, though the Dark Angels were a bit under powered in that edition (outside of odd builds like Land Speeder armies). And all the marine codices paled in comparison to the first (which became a blueprint of what not to do), the Space Wolves. In 3rd the main marine codex was the base blue print for the add-on chapters. But those heinous books stripped out 80% of the fluff and were pumped out so quickly (and obviously poorly tested) that the 1996 AoD codex was seen as far superior. The only time the Dark Angels were used to test out a new direction was the last codex we got, and again, it was a disaster that made AoD look great in comparison.

But truth be told, looking back through everything, none of our codices have ever been anything to write home about. Angels of Death simply stands out and gets held up as a paragon of what the Dark Angels are about because nothing has ever done better than it. In itself AoD had great background but the mechanics were largely boring and suffered the same problems as other SM armies in 2nd, but worse (marines were heinously overcosted in 2nd Edition as it was, and a lot of DA units were just more expensive versions). If GW can give us a good codex in this edition then they may finally get over people comparing everything to codices that are 16+ years old at this point.

That said, so many of these rumours out of Faeit212 double back and/or contradict themselves that I'm considering the whole batch a wash. Even if he gets a bit right there is a lot in there that just doesn't add up. So far the only things I am set on is the changes to Masters, Librarians and Ravenwing (from the Dark Vengeance leaks). Beyond that I am going to wait for a more reputable source to chime in (or for the release).

 Brother SRM wrote:

 English Assassin wrote:

Am I missing something? Don't the rumours in the OP still have Belial unlocking Terminators as troops?

From the OP:

There are two basic troops choices and not just one.
Tactical Squad and Deathwing are troops.

I do share the worry that GW won't make them different enough to keep them from being Space Marines with a few minor changes, but we'll see soon enough.

When I read through the troops stated just tac squads under it. But fair enough, perhaps I am just plain jaded that for an edition the entire army has been pretty much pointless in my eyes (same with the 3rd and 5th editions that said ), with a codex that paved the way for the vanilla dex to outshine it totally and make it redundant. Ok, Codex SW too when the Loganwing came in from what I read. But still, an edition too late for an update imo, will still get shot of the army.

And agree that Angels of Death was the codex that made the army most effective, probably due to the ruleset it was in and the was the army was put together for every army back there (% of points on characters, squads, vehicles and allies back then.) I just cannot see them leaving Codex marines alone this ed and suddenly the variant chapters with the possible exception of SW are overshadowed as that dex will do their job but better thanks to codex creep.

A few of these updates as a free PDF update last edition would have at least saved the last dex.

Getting ravenwing bikes, deathwing terminators, and company tactical squads as troops might make them more interesting, think of the weird armies you might see!

I was also really hoping to see some chariots and strafing run units in this codex, I guess I should just be happy with new missiles and WW rockets.

If those banners/chaplains aren't too expensive you might see some armies make use of those, but that kind of reeks of BA bubbles already.

If the new whirlwinds are good I could see myself running a list like this

3x whirlwind
3x mortis dread of some kind
1x tactical squad w/ weapons
1x aegis defense line + quad gun
2/3x deathwing terminator squads

I'm just a little worried that DA will have the first of the price hiked terminators.

 Lucre wrote:


I'm just a little worried that DA will have the first of the price hiked terminators.

See, again, that is nothing a quick bit of errata in a PDF, free on the website cannot fix...

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Yeah, Codex Angels of Death was after Codex Ultramarines in 2nd, though the Dark Angels were a bit under powered in that edition (outside of odd builds like Land Speeder armies). And all the marine codices paled in comparison to the first (which became a blueprint of what not to do), the Space Wolves. In 3rd the main marine codex was the base blue print for the add-on chapters. But those heinous books stripped out 80% of the fluff and were pumped out so quickly (and obviously poorly tested) that the 1996 AoD codex was seen as far superior. The only time the Dark Angels were used to test out a new direction was the last codex we got, and again, it was a disaster that made AoD look great in comparison.

But truth be told, looking back through everything, none of our codices have ever been anything to write home about. Angels of Death simply stands out and gets held up as a paragon of what the Dark Angels are about because nothing has ever done better than it. In itself AoD had great background but the mechanics were largely boring and suffered the same problems as other SM armies in 2nd, but worse (marines were heinously overcosted in 2nd Edition as it was, and a lot of DA units were just more expensive versions). If GW can give us a good codex in this edition then they may finally get over people comparing everything to codices that are 16+ years old at this point.

That said, so many of these rumours out of Faeit212 double back and/or contradict themselves that I'm considering the whole batch a wash. Even if he gets a bit right there is a lot in there that just doesn't add up. So far the only things I am set on is the changes to Masters, Librarians and Ravenwing (from the Dark Vengeance leaks). Beyond that I am going to wait for a more reputable source to chime in (or for the release).

Yes, Yes, I concur those were the thin little Codex 40K books? Yes, they were absolutely woeful. You have the right of it in saying that they never really got a decent codex but hopefully this is the time.

So, am I the only one that noticed in the WD batrep that they used the terminators as scoring troops, and Belial was not there?
Hoping that this is a sign of what will be in the new codex.

GW has played their own rules incorrectly in WD BatReps before. That said, I have the same hopes.

 nolzur wrote:
So, am I the only one that noticed in the WD batrep that they used the terminators as scoring troops, and Belial was not there?
Hoping that this is a sign of what will be in the new codex.

Hmm, that is interesting in the very least. Did they mention anything about the Ravenwing special rules? My hunch is that they have Skilled Rider back again but I'd love to see if that can be confirmed yet. With Skilled Rider back they would be back to their 2nd Edition skill-set (Expert Rider and Jink were both unique Ravenwing rules during 2nd Edition and the former morphed in to Skilled Rider during 3rd, though the two rules are very different). But unless the RW bikers ended up going through difficult terrain (and it got mentioned) or they mentioned that they were saving on a 4+ cover save then it will be hard to know without specific mention.

 nolzur wrote:
So, am I the only one that noticed in the WD batrep that they used the terminators as scoring troops, and Belial was not there?
Hoping that this is a sign of what will be in the new codex.

I posted about this in the OP already. Deathwing Terminators are Troops in the new codex, according to the rumors posted.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 nolzur wrote:
So, am I the only one that noticed in the WD batrep that they used the terminators as scoring troops, and Belial was not there?
Hoping that this is a sign of what will be in the new codex.

I posted about this in the OP already. Deathwing Terminators are Troops in the new codex, according to the rumors posted.

I know, I was simply pointing the fact out for the people who keep posting saying they won't be, or that you will still need Belial.

 Gamble wrote:
GW has played their own rules incorrectly in WD BatReps before. That said, I have the same hopes.

Well it would help if they actually played the games, instead of making them up. Another reason why I quit buying WD. It was proven, forget how, that some, I said some of the bat rep are up and right fakes and make believe.

i wanna see termis with 2 wounds each if we cant roll 10 in a squad like C:SM

 nolzur wrote:
So, am I the only one that noticed in the WD batrep that they used the terminators as scoring troops, and Belial was not there?
Hoping that this is a sign of what will be in the new codex.

Can you give a quote or example of where this happens. I'm getting someone on another forum that says the only objective where scoring matters (the relic) has the Ravenwing making off with it and the Deathwing are never referred to or treated as scoring units. A direct quote would probably help all of us that don't tend to touch White Dwarf. I'm certainly interested in knowing where the notion came from at least since I'm hoping the Deathwing (and also Ravenwing) end up being permanent troop slots and I'd love to have more exact info.

I'll try to remember to post a direct quote frmo the article tonight, I don't have the WD with me at work.

Damn, the RW Bikers having two attacks appears to have been a typo in the previous leak. Oh well, that's kind of a down (well unless they get a proper veteran unit of course). On the other hand they still do get the upgrade to Ld 9 which is at least a little interesting. Do we have the actual special rules for each unit yet?

also the liby is now the crapy liby stats out of codex marines and the company master is now WS6

Dark Angel Company Master with WS6?! Surely a typo

The Ld10 is probably a bigger buff than the loss to I and A.

Huh, yeah, didn't notice the Librarian stat changes. Wow, that localization leak apparently had a lot of differences, wonder if it was a hoax after all?

I'm hoping that when the codex actually comes out, the Ravenwing get the Skilled Rider rule.

If Belial doesn't unlock Deathwing troops, I hope that he at least has some cool rules instead of being the most generic named character in the game. I have a pretty cool Belial model and I would hate for him to be totally useless.