Dark Angels Rumors thread: Update 11/25

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**pretre**

Kroothawk wrote:
Faeit 212 Anonymous Commenter wrote:Dark Angels will have at least 3 units never seen before, not including special characters. Plus, there is another flyer + FAQ wave coming

... and they will have at least one new plastic kit and 2 new Finecast characters. And GW will raise prices next June.

Vague rumors ftw!

**Brother SRM**

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?351780-DA-Rumors

stickmonkey wrote:Good day warseer. I've got some juicy model rumors on the upcoming DA release.

Despite the WD cover, I am hearing Nov/Dec timeframe. Not sure if this is reveal in Nov WD (released in Oct) release in Nov, or reveal in Dec WD...the way the rumors are flowing its getting very difficult to be sure what is meant.

Here's what my sources have past along:

Characters:
New Azrael - PA, helmet on and off options, still with a watcher model holding combi-plasma (supposedly the watchers have an expanded role on table top now, but this is the first I've hear of this and no details given, so lots of skepticism.)
Azmodai - TA
Ezekial model staying the same.
Ravenwing Bike captain
Named Sargeant (Nameth?)
Belial gets a model
Sammael gets a new model (I am not certain, but this could be the bike captain being mistaken)

Units:
Landspeeder-esq flyer. (we've heard this before, so could be rehash) Has Aquila like wings. TLAC, TML, TLPC, TLHvyB (sounded like these were options, not that it had them all at once)
Plasma Pred (heard this before, too) TLPC turret.
Deathwing Box (new to me) AC, Cyclone Launcher, THSS x2, LC x2, PS x1, PC, HF, PF x5, SB x5, CF x2 (Lots of bits there, consistent with the load of extras in things like the Space wolf Termies, Plasma Cannon Termie? IBIWISI)
New Dreadnought type. Mortis options.
Inner Circle box. Elites. Robed PA. dual unit box. one is CC focus, the other is dual pistols (gunslingers, anyone?) one version uses chaplain helmets.
Seige unit. (not many details given on this, sounds like techmarine thunderfire type unit, hoping to get more on this)

That's all I have for now.

Cheers.

I sincerely doubt we'll get a new Azrael, Terminator armor Azmodai, or Inner Circle box with any of those unit ideas he mentioned like gunslingers. I don't see a new model for the Master of the Ravenwing, and a Deathwing box sounds wishlisty but cool.

**Brometheus**

The plasma cannon is lol, but would make for an amazing Obliterator conversion.

Too bad we CSM players didn't have a bit like that available years ago.

Anyways, I agree with you on the Master of the Ravenwing point. That model is doing great for its age, and I don't see them replacing it for a long while.

**gilljoy**

No reason the master of the ravenwing couldn't be a land speeder or an upgrade kit for the plastic land speeder

**English Assassin**

Sammael's a fairly new model; I'd be most surprised to see him go. Azrael, Exekiel and Asmodai are old and tiny, and ought to be resculpted; the same however is true of Ragnar and Dante, and they're still around. I think this list rather dubious.

**Brother SRM**

gilljoy wrote:
No reason the master of the ravenwing couldn't be a land speeder or an upgrade kit for the plastic land speeder

There already is an upgrade kit for the plastic Landspeeder to make the Master of the Ravenwing. It's called the Ravenwing sprue. There are bits there (like the twin linked heavy bolters) that are only usable on that unit.

**Nvs**

If they're going to go through the trouble of making another terminator kit, I hope these are robed to really make them stand out. Otherwise they'd really just match the normal tactical unit and they'd be better off just making a terminator upgrade sprue.

I imagine the inner circle unit is the previously mentioned mini-chaplains?

**Brother SRM**

I don't see them making robed Terminators. There's no precedent in any of the models, and even Dark Vengeance only has a tabbard.

**Kanluwen**

Brother SRM wrote:
I don't see them making robed Terminators. There's no precedent in any of the models, and even Dark Vengeance only has a tabbard.

Sure, no precedent in any of the models--but the artwork has precedent, notably in Belial's artwork.

**Brother SRM**

It's just something I've seen wishlisted for so long I'll have to believe it when I see it. Stickmonkey's record is, well, Stickmonkey's record, so it doesn't lend all that much. Figured I'd include it for the sake of it and since it had some ideas that are interesting, even if I don't think they'll happen.

**Kanluwen**

Sure, it's been wishlisted for so long but they're going to need to release something for Dark Angels and unique Terminators is a given considering that apparently Space Wolves merited their own Terminator kit.

**MightyGodzilla**

If they weren't going to do something drastic with the terminator sprue (robes, tabards) would there be enough for GW to do a new termie kit that is DA specific? Their weapon options are already available (unless they're getting new options) and I don't know that DA inconography would justify a new kit. Especially with the DV termies out en masse. GW didn't give BAs new termies, BA players had to try their luck battling for SH bits. Which is a very parallel situation.

**whoadirty**

While the DW terminator box sounds awesome, has GW ever put 4 heavy/special weapons in a squad that can only field one?

**Formosa**

Brother SRM wrote:
I don't see them making robed Terminators. There's no precedent in any of the models, and even Dark Vengeance only has a tabbard.

lol whut?

you mean appart from the pic with Azrael standing infront of some robbed termies?

**spiralingcadaver**

whoadirty wrote:
While the DW terminator box sounds awesome, has GW ever put 4 heavy/special weapons in a squad that can only field one?

The closest are IG heavy weapons teams (one team with all options) and various special weapons.

Also, (C)SM tac/basic have flamer/plasma/melta and the chaos one has a ton of extras- enough to arm, like, 3 sergeants. I believe the space wolves box has a similar degree of options. Also, the GK plastics have a pretty ridiculous number of options

**MightyGodzilla**

whoadirty wrote:
While the DW terminator box sounds awesome, has GW ever put 4 heavy/special weapons in a squad that can only field one?

The standard tactical box has 3. Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, and Cyclone Missile Launcher. That's cuz Termies only have the 3 HW options at present. Someone's rumoring that DA Tactical Termies will have a plasma option, hence the fourth. As for in a squad that could only field one part, the standard Tact Termies came out when you could have two HW in a squad as small as five (in the vanilla codex 4th) or yes in the DA codex they could only have one HW. The 4th vanilla codex isn't really a good example because in 4th everyone was rolliing 2x Assault Cannons, they were the way to go compared to other options at that time. That one bit sold for $15 on the secondary market consistently for years.

**Kanluwen**

MightyGodzilla wrote:
If they weren't going to do something drastic with the terminator sprue (robes, tabards) would there be enough for GW to do a new termie kit that is DA specific? Their weapon options are already available (unless they're getting new options) and I don't know that DA inconography would justify a new kit. Especially with the DV termies out en masse. GW didn't give BAs new termies, BA players had to try their luck battling for SH bits. Which is a very parallel situation.

Blood Angels have never had anything special for their Terminators, nor have they really ever had anything too special in terms of how their elite units looked.

The Sanguinary Guard are the brand new, unique concept for the Blood Angels--much like robed Terminators would be for the Dark Angels.
The Death Company and the previously existing Honor Guard had a similarity to the robed Marines for the Dark Angels.

**Spartiat1s**

Possibly these new kits add merit to the deathwing becoming troops rumor in the new codex. This would free up some elite slots for the "gunslinger" and "innercircle" and make the DA unique.

**Kanluwen**

Spartiat1s wrote:
Possibly these new kits add merit to the deathwing becoming troops rumor in the new codex. This would free up some elite slots for the "gunslinger" and "innercircle" and make the DA unique.

No it wouldn't.

Grey Knights have Terminators as Troops to start with and an Elite Terminator variant as well, with Space Wolves have the ability to make Wolf Guard Terminators Troops.

At this point, nothing is going to make "Terminators as Troops" unique beyond weapon load-outs. Hell, even giving the Deathwing an "Elite Inner Circle" variant which gain hero level stats would not be unique as the Grey Knights have that as well in the form of Paladins(an Elite Terminator choice which can become Troops with Draigo).

The Dark Angels having a ridiculously bloated Elites section is practically guaranteed at this point, since Scouts are purported to maintain their slot there in spite of any bloody sense of logic.

**Brother SRM**

Formosa wrote:

you mean appart from the pic with Azrael standing infront of some robbed termies?

Notice I said "models" and not "artwork" as Kan already noted.

Kanluwen wrote:
Spartiat1s wrote:
Possibly these new kits add merit to the deathwing becoming troops rumor in the new codex. This would free up some elite slots for the "gunslinger" and "innercircle" and make the DA unique.

No it wouldn't.

Grey Knights have Terminators as Troops to start with and an Elite Terminator variant as well, with Space Wolves have the ability to make Wolf Guard Terminators Troops.

At this point, nothing is going to make "Terminators as Troops" unique beyond weapon load-outs. Hell, even giving the Deathwing an "Elite Inner Circle" variant which gain hero level stats would not be unique as the Grey Knights have that as well in the form of Paladins(an Elite Terminator choice which can become Troops with Draigo).

The Dark Angels having a ridiculously bloated Elites section is practically guaranteed at this point, since Scouts are purported to maintain their slot there in spite of any bloody sense of logic.

DA seemed to be going in the direction of Terminator troops and power armored Elites with the last release, I can see it happening again. DA will almost definitely get Sternguard veterans in addition to whatever else is in there. I too think that Scouts being Elites is ludicrous though. Even if they have better stats, I don't like them being there. It's completely senseless.

**MightyGodzilla**

That DA Termie set does seem like wishlisting. Everything you'd want to make a 5 man Termie squad if they keep the tactical / assault mix up they had going in 4th. And an excuse to iconographi them up. Would be nice if it were true.

Scouts in the elite spot I never understood. I never fielded them either. It's against my own personal doctrine. DA scouts are trainees, shouldn't be elites. Never should have been.

**Nvs**

Well the old captain and librarian in terminator armor both have robes/tabbards also. But like I said, they need something to make them stand out as just having deathwing shoulderpads hardly seems to warrant a new terminator set when we already know they're moving toward the upgrade sprue direction.

Even if they get a plasma terminator weapon, that isn't going to warrant a new terminator box.

Unless of course they were planning to merge the assault and tacticals into a single box and just paint them up in deathwing colors on the cover for a splash release.

**Kanluwen**

MightyGodzilla wrote:
That DA Termie set does seem like wishlisting. Everything you'd want to make a 5 man Termie squad if they keep the tactical / assault mix up they had going in 4th. And an excuse to iconographi them up. Would be nice if it were true.

Scouts in the elite spot I never understood. I never fielded them either. It's against my own personal doctrine. DA scouts are trainees, shouldn't be elites. Never should have been.

That's actually not true.

This is something which has always been fallaciously repeated for not just Dark Angels, but every Astartes Chapter out there.
Scouts are not just trainees. They are made up of Brothers who have not been assigned to a Company or veterans who chose to remain with the 10th Company to train the next generation of Astartes.

The Wolf Scouts are a far better representation of Astartes Scouts than Scouts themselves are in the standard books.

**MightyGodzilla**

Kanluwen wrote:

That's actually not true.

This is something which has always been fallaciously repeated for not just Dark Angels, but every Astartes Chapter out there.
Scouts are not just trainees. They are made up of Brothers who have not been assigned to a Company or veterans who chose to remain with the 10th Company to train the next generation of Astartes.

The Wolf Scouts are a far better representation of Astartes Scouts than Scouts themselves are in the standard books.

Trainee was the wrong wording....they still after all have all their mariney organs and training, so they're superior to normal humans. But I've only ever read the codices (Compilation/Compendium, 2nd AoD, 3rd, 4th & WDs). Does the Black Library material expand on a scouts role? See I see scout (based on my reading) as not a full battle brother because they haven't been assigned to a company...and hence not a battle brother = noob/trainee/poor wording to me. The remaining with the 10th was news to me, but makes sense. Black Templars with their in squad novices and battle brother mix did more to cement this for me, BBs training the trainees.

Space Wolves were the only ones I ever thought of as being seasoned vets, as why they made a big deal about it in the 5th ed dex.

But we are in agreement that those damn scouts shouldn't clog up and elite choice.

**Kanluwen**

Not just Black Library material does.

You've got examples like Naaman and Telion from Codices, and Cyrus from DOWII.

Black Templars are a bit on the weird side, mostly due to the "knight" and "squire" attempt that they had going on.

**MightyGodzilla**

Kanluwen wrote:
Not just Black Library material does.

You've got examples like Naaman and Telion from Codices, and Cyrus from DOWII.
Black Templars are a bit on the weird side, mostly due to the "knight" and "squire" attempt that they had going on.

Exceptions to the norm. Curiousities to my powered armored mind.

**Brother SRM**

Those are also sergeants. Scout sergeants are veterans just as much as any tactical Marine sergeant is a veteran.

**Kanluwen**

Brother SRM wrote:
Those are also sergeants. Scout sergeants are veterans just as much as any tactical Marine sergeant is a veteran.

And if you'll recall, Black Library recently made a point of making it very clear ("Purging of Kadillus") that by the time a Scout is getting ready to "graduate" that he is at least as experienced as any veteran Guardsman.

**lord_blackfang**

MightyGodzilla wrote:
Scouts in the elite spot I never understood. I never fielded them either. It's against my own personal doctrine. DA scouts are trainees, shouldn't be elites. Never should have been.

Makes more sense than Troops or Heavy. You could maybe make a case for Fast Attack.

**Kanluwen**

lord_blackfang wrote:
MightyGodzilla wrote:
Scouts in the elite spot I never understood. I never fielded them either. It's against my own personal doctrine. DA scouts are trainees, shouldn't be elites. Never should have been.

Makes more sense than Troops or Heavy. You could maybe make a case for Fast Attack.

Fast Attack actually always made sense for them, IMO.

The Dark Angels Scouts have always had close ties to the Ravenwing, and why the LSS was first given to the Codex Chapters rather than Dark Angels is a mystery to me.