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 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I have it on good authority that Ezekiel will be able to consume men with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse!

He'll also be wearing a skirt for some reason.

To shoot the aforementioned ass-lightning, of course. It is the darkest secret of the Dark Angels.

 GhostOfCaliban wrote:
I did the EXACT same thing Nivek. SAME THING. So now Im rolling BA as my first army. DW / RW in the works for DA Codex release though.

Play the DA.

Really.

If you like them, play them. If you think they are cool, play them. Who cares if the book is old.

Also, maybe it is... know what, that will make you a better player.
Really.

An outdated dex forces you to up your game as they are usually somewhat behind on the powercurve - this is a good thing.
They are still marines, so will still be very forgiving with their decent saves and good statlines - play them.

As someone who learned 40k on an outdated dex (tau and 5th - and still my primary army) I can say do not underestimate this factor.
After cutting my teeth on tau and older necrons (and later nids...I am a glutton for punishment) this has a great impact on my skills as a player.

When I play more recent dexes, they seem almost easy in comparison.

So if you want to play them, play them. Have fun.
The fact it will make you a better player in the long run is just freaking gravy when the new book comes out.

just my perspective...

davethepak wrote:

 GhostOfCaliban wrote:
I did the EXACT same thing Nivek. SAME THING. So now Im rolling BA as my first army. DW / RW in the works for DA Codex release though.

Play the DA.

Really.

If you like them, play them. If you think they are cool, play them. Who cares if the book is old.

Also, maybe it is... know what, that will make you a better player.
Really.

An outdated dex forces you to up your game as they are usually somewhat behind on the powercurve - this is a good thing.
They are still marines, so will still be very forgiving with their decent saves and good statlines - play them.

As someone who learned 40k on an outdated dex (tau and 5th - and still my primary army) I can say do not underestimate this factor.
After cutting my teeth on tau and older necrons (and later nids...I am a glutton for punishment) this has a great impact on my skills as a player.

When I play more recent dexes, they seem almost easy in comparison.

So if you want to play them, play them. Have fun.
The fact it will make you a better player in the long run is just freaking gravy when the new book comes out.

just my perspective...

Yes I do agree that playing an older dex will perhaps teach me to endure a beating against newer codex. Thus helping me to learn how to play the game. However, I have a lot of disposable income. So I will probably end up playing both armies. I love both Chapters fluff equally. I think I was pushed towards DA because of the DV set more than it was liking them more than the BA's. I also read the BA codex after purchasing the DV set. I was a little miffed that I didn't read it before hand, but I got a start on my future DA army and I got the mini 6E RB so not a total loss. Besides it's not like I'm restricted to playing ONE army. So WHEN and IF the DA codex drops I will be purchasing alot of new minis then as well. I should have my BA's finished (loosely using this term as I'm sure I will always purchase more) by then and ready to build a face melting plasma spam DA army.

davethepak wrote:


Play the DA.

Really.

If you like them, play them. If you think they are cool, play them. Who cares if the book is old.

Also, maybe it is... know what, that will make you a better player.
Really.

This right here. I've played WH40K on and off again since 3rd and have always had DA as my marine army. If you like a faction then I would play it instead of just using a different book. The DA book is old but it's able to beat other armies, newer or not. My only issue with it right now is that if I don't have Terminators, Bikes, and use Deathwing Assault, then it feels like I'm playing the game wrong when I could do everything else with C:SM and have points left over so. I mean with a full company of Terminator armor you'd think we would have crazy things like Deathwing with jumppacks and lascannons, but instead they just say we like plasma even though I'm pretty sure Space Wolf can bring more plasma to a fight and use it just as well...

Certainly a few tweaks I would like to see in a new book, but I'm not about to use another till it comes out.

On the other hand BA with DA allies? Why the heck not? I found my old Death Company squad so I was thinking of using them as allies after I added a little more to it.

Salty rumors. Ithink what I'll pay attention to most is the release date that Italian playtester guy cited. Feb to April. I was hoping for something sooner. Not spending money on new DA in 2012 is killing me slowly. As far as the other new rumors I got mixed feelings on them. For me

Would like to see jetbikes in more of an honor guard (means 0-1) fashion as opposed to retconned mass jetbike tech for the descendants of the I Legion.

BS5 units seem like a waste to me. A little too over the top vs whats established for 40k Marines. I guess in really low numbers. Same for 2 wound Dark Palidans...do that and there's an arms race brewing. More termie Hw options I'm down with..make the DW different by bringing home the 2 heavies per squad thing back.

Giant flyer thing will probably happen. I'll buy one too if it looks as cool as the Storm Eagle.

Just some thoughts I've had concerning some of the rumored units.

1. Unique flyer-- I don't think it makes sense for DAs to have a unique flier, maybe a custom variant of stormtalon/stormraven would be cool.

2. Plasma Predator -- Now this would be cool,

3: Inner Circle -- This doesn't make sense to me, It makes for good fluff, but wouldn't it be comprised of Chapter masters, captains and the like? AKA We already have them as HQ choices.

4: I would like to see something that works like the blood angels Sanguinary Priests, that you take a unit of 3, but then can divide them with your other units to give them bonuses. This might be were Interrogator Chaplains would work good.

Ralis wrote:
Just some thoughts I've had concerning some of the rumored units.


3: Inner Circle -- This doesn't make sense to me, It makes for good fluff, but wouldn't it be comprised of Chapter masters, captains and the like? AKA We already have them as HQ choices.

My guess is it would be something like a necron royal court. You can take them seperatly, or take a court with them all attached.

Copied from BOLS

Rumor followups courtesy of Stickmonkey


Deathwing
Honor Guard Terminator squad unlocked by select HQs (Belial - others???). One such unit per HQ, only one may carry a Chapter Banner. Other banners exist however. Models are W:2 WS/BS:5 Non-scoring. Can take Apothecary.

Elite Terminators are W:1, WS/BS:5. Unit has new CC options neverbefore seen on termys. Unit size max of 5. Vanguard Strike upon Deepstriking!

Troops Terminators are standard DW. Sergeant may upgrade to to Chaplain. Can take new options such as Plasma Cannon. Up to 10 models per unit. No more Cyclone/CC option on single models. Mix of CC and Ranged models still permitted withing unit.

Ravenwing

RW Command Squad is only unlocked by select HQ characters. One banner option for RW. No apothecary for RW, with a "Mini-Chaplain" upgrade instead. This option provide a Litanies buff his unit only.

Troop RW squad matches the current RW bike squad, minus the Speeder.

RW Attack Bikes - plasma gunner option
RW Land Speeders - plasma gunner option

I'm not fan of RW losing their apothecary, but for the rest I thank our spiritual liege.

Came back from the store with my bag of salt (was a big bag!).

Got plenty to spare.

Ralis wrote:

3: Inner Circle -- This doesn't make sense to me, It makes for good fluff, but wouldn't it be comprised of Chapter masters, captains and the like? AKA We already have them as HQ choices.

Those guys are certainly part of the Inner Circle, but there's more to it. It's not just the "Highest Ranking" members of the Chapter...it's those who are considered the "Most Trustworthy". Those who can keep a secret. Those are the kinds of individuals admitted to the Inner Circle.

But not just the high ranking guys. Oh no. You could theoretically have a Scout Sergeant who was elevated to the Deathwing and Ravenwing both as part of the Inner Circle.

Man, Stick is certainly amping up the rumors. Hmm. Added to the tracker.

I suppose having a small group of power armoured guys in the inner circle would help too in some situations where the deathwing and ravenwing aren't too helpful.

Out of curiosity...

I've heard many on this thread bemoan not having a "proper Mortis Dread"... I was under the impression that a "Mortis Dread" was just a dreadnought with 2 main ranged weapons, instead of 1-ranged / 1-CCW...

If this is not the case... Then what is a "proper Mortis Dreadnought"?

A proper Mortis Dreadnought is one with two identical ranged weapons - like two TL Autocannons or two TL Lascannons. A lascannon and ML does not a Mortis make.

PredaKhaine wrote:
Copied from BOLS

Rumor followups courtesy of Stickmonkey

Troops Terminators are standard DW. Sergeant may upgrade to to Chaplain. Can take new options such as Plasma Cannon. Up to 10 models per unit. No more Cyclone/CC option on single models. Mix of CC and Ranged models still permitted withing unit.

Always thought they needed more heavy weapons, and models per squad as an option but no Cyclone/CC? I've seen this posted but I still don't get why they would do it. I could maybe see keeping the storm shield off a heavy weapon but it doesn't seem like it would have much effect on lighting claw models. Just seems like my cyclone would live long because it would have no reason to be up front in this edition.

Liking the idea of several types of DW/RW squads a bit though, would add a little uniqueness to their units.

Getting the rules from somewhere that isn't forge world would be lovely as well.

If it weren't for Mat Ward I'd say most of these sound like the insane ramblings of a demented fanboy ranting about his fandex, taking one aspect of an otherwise rather adherent chapter and going all out bonkers with it.

Alas, I fully expect all sorts of silly inexplicably DA specific terminator stuff and the like with entire FoC's of terminators

 Vaktathi wrote:
If it weren't for Mat Ward I'd say most of these sound like the insane ramblings of a demented fanboy ranting about his fandex, taking one aspect of an otherwise rather adherent chapter and going all out bonkers with it.

Alas, I fully expect all sorts of silly inexplicably DA specific terminator stuff and the like with entire FoC's of terminators

Not to ruin this great tear you are on but remember that it isn't just Ward that takes one aspect and goes crazy with it, that's GW as a whole. (see, Skulls, Wolves, etc).

Keep on beating that dead horse though! Oh, and don't forget to mention Finecast.

 Skipphag da Devoura wrote:
I played CSM with the 3.5 dex... And IMHO, it was way, way OP... I absolutely hated the nerf-herder dex that just went the way of the dodo... And actually rather like the new CSM dex...
I have always been a Chaos Dread fan... AND the last dex made them worse than useless... AND the new one made them shiny again!!!

This is sarcasm, right? Dreads are more or less the same and were mediocre last go round- 4th and crazed made them stupid. Alot of people played them wrong with 5th LOS. 6th HPs makes them very meh and plasma on them worse (one of the few places Chaos could get it). Not that they have ever been great. An option to boost front AV to 13 would have been really nice.

DA really could use some Mortis dreads for them. I expect alot of Dark stuff of Vengeance, though.

The general meh-ness of dreads in 6th is directly proportionate to the general meh-ness of all vehicles in 6th...

The 3.5 Chaos dex made the dreads slightly crazy, and so, slightly dangerous if they didn't have LoS and/or range to enemy models... They only went crazed on a single roll result (1 I think, but it might have been 6), then you rolled for result...

The 5 Chaos dex made them completely crazy, and horribly dangerous if they were closer to your units, than to enemy units... They went crazy on a 1 or a 6, and that was the result as well...

This one makes them slightly crazy... and not generally killing your own units...

How about we stay on DA?

Well I feel better hearing that from Stick, still a little leery though. But I am starting to hope for a proper Deathwing Honour Guard unit that is tough as nails (and I am personally hoping for 2W). Losing scoring sounds like a good trade for a dead hard combat unit.

Increased heavy weapon choices for things is great, though I'm wondering what role a PC will actually play in a DW squad. I just hope the cost isn't too high so that it sees some use next to the assault cannon. Either way I'm sure the model will look great if it is something we will be getting. Losing the CC option on CMLs kind of bites though, there is a model I wont be able to use, and unlike the metal ones I had to futz around with when the last codex dropped, good luck getting that apart without ruining it. Hopefully that was just something found in one iteration of the playtest and got dropped. It they brought back the targeter as an option for it then that may be neat, but I doubt that will be a thing. But I tend to be less of a fan of reigning in changes like that unless GW is pretty open that it will be a change for all codices (i.e. the SW get an entry in their FAQ saying such a combo is a no-go as well). Because it always stinks as one of those things they are going to test out and then change back at the next opportunity if the backlash is bad. But then, the last codex made me kind of paranoid about that.

The idea of swapping in Chappies to lead DW squads is actually kind of awesome. I hope that ends up being true.

Glad to see the speeder may get the nix from the troop squad. It always seemed like a weird setup to me and was also kind of needless. I wonder if that means we may see multiple Attack Bikes in one unit?

The RW Command Squad sounds interesting. Losing the Apothecary is no fun (another model some will not be able to use) but a chappie upgrade is interesting.

Overall it sounds like the constant re-implementation of the RW/DW command units is going to be a sticking point here. No two codices have had the same load out and each new codex has seen me tearing apart one unit or another as it has become obsolete. In 3rd they introduced the command squad and the DW got a Techmarine, Apothecary and Standard Bearer. In 4th the Techmarine was dropped (since they stopped being part of command squads long prior to that) and the independant version had no TDA option. Now it looks like RW are sharing the same fate (possibly) with their Apothecary. And my current command squad would have been fine save for the possible loss of CML+LCs.

Oh well, this new one at least sounds interesting so I shant complain too much. But from the sounds of it, they are finally adding enough new stuff that I may buy new Dark Angels to pad out my force. I pray the April release is accurate, because I will need to save for that month.

Stickmonkey wrote:HQ:
Azrael - Artificer or Terminator options. New model. Lions Helm grants 3+ Inv., Lion's Wrath grants Gets Hot rerolls (army-wide?), Master crafted Plasma Blaster (see Horus Heresy book?), Sword of Secrets is Sx2 Master Crafted Power weapon. Watcher in the Dark model is W:1 5+ Inv, with no other stats. It cannot be targeted by anything including blasts, and must stay within 2" of Azrael or is removed. Watcher can take Look Out Sirs.

Belial - Terminator armor. New model. Eternal Warrior 2+ Inv!!! Grants Elites Deathwing Termys Heroic Intervention if he is attached. Cannot take options, Master Crafted Strombolter. Sword of Secrets is a Relic Blade with an additional effect. Belian grants a buff to Termys within 6".

Sammael - If mounted in his Speeder, unlocks scoring Speeders. Can also take his normal bike.

Azmodai - Current model (finecast) Unlocks no units. His Litanies grants a longer ranged more potent buff.

Ezekiel - Current model (finecast), Psyker Level 3

Barakiel - Master of the Forge. Armed with a "Reaper Cannon" - 36" S:5 Assault (6 or 12?) AP:3 Extremely Expensive in points.

Librarian - Power Level 1 (upgrade to 2)
Company Master - Power Armor, or Terminator armor
Interrogator Chaplain
Command/Honor squad Terminators or Bikes with Belial or Sammael respectively, Apothecary, Standard bearer, 1x Heavy weapon upgrades. W:2 regardless of armor, or bikes.

Elites:

Chaplains / Brother-Interrogators - Unit size 1-3. Chaplain style death masks, dual bolt pistols and power maul. (can upgrade pistols). B-I have an increased BS over regular chaplains and can operate independantly as IC or join units, B-I only buff the unit they join with litanies (more potent version), while non-upgraded chaplains buff a 6" bubble. B-I are only characters if independent, and cannot leave attached units (similar to Wolfguard).

Inner Circle Unit Terminator armor. W:1, Heroic Intervention if Belial is attached to the unit. WS/BS 5. They get a cover save upon deepstriking. "Lion-themed" visually. Entire unit can purchase Sergeant upgrades. No heavy weapons, Unit max size:5. Categorized as Deathwing Assault Unit

Dreadnought - Venerable and Mortis options. Categorized as Deathwing Assault Unit.

Scouts - Land Speeder Storm as dedicated transport. "Markerlight" effect targets one enemy unit - other Dark Angels units then get a bonus (reroll to hit?) versus the unit as long as the Scouts are within line of sight to thier "Fallen" target. Teleport Homer. Sergeant Namaan (WOOHOO!!) returns, granting Reserve rerolls to all Death Wing units.

Techmarine

Veterans

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/11/40k-rumors-dark-angels-hqs-and-elites.html

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?24243-DA-Rumours

The more I see these rumours the harder it is for me to tell if someone isnt just making it up like some fandex. Scoring Speeders? S8 power sword? 2+ Invul on Belial?

Kinda interesting that the Inner Circle unit we've been hearing about is actually the elite Terminator Deathwing unit. Was always under the impression it was PA (and thus led to much speculation)

Current codex used to have a scoring speeder, the one which was purchased with the RAS, I don't know if the 6th edition changed that.

 Cyrax wrote:
Current codex used to have a scoring speeder, the one which was purchased with the RAS, I don't know if the 6th edition changed that.

No it doesn't, vehicles don't score in 5th even if they're troops.

Have to say that most of the above rumours sound really really lame. Like fandex written by 12-year old. Urgh.

Backfire wrote:
Like fandex written by 12-year old. Urgh.

Sounds about right.

I don't think there will be a 2++ on Belial. I don't know of anything off the top of my head (even in Apoc) that has a 2++.

These seem a little far-fetched.

 Sasori wrote:
I don't think there will be a 2++ on Belial. I don't know of anything off the top of my head (even in Apoc) that has a 2++.

These seem a little far-fetched.

Warding stave for grey knights (I know its not the same thing but its still a 2++) and the armor you can get for a dark eldar archon

It could even be something like a warding stave, will have to wait and find out I guess