Why are African Immigrants more successful than blacks born in the US?

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**Alraz_ka**

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigrants#cite_note-19

Educational attainment

African immigrants to the U.S. are among the most educated groups in the United States. Some 48.9 percent of all African immigrants hold a college diploma. This is more than double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans.[13] According to the 2000 Census, the rate of college diploma acquisition is highest among Egyptian Americans at 59.7 percent, followed closely by Nigerian Americans at 58.6 percent. [14] [15]
In 1997, 19.4 percent of all adult African immigrants in the United States held a graduate degree, compared to 8.1 percent of adult white Americans and 3.8 percent of adult black Americans in the United States, respectively. [16] According to the 2000 Census, the percentage of Africans with a graduate degree is highest among Nigerian Americans at 28.3 percent, followed by Egyptian Americans at 23.8 percent. [17] [18]
Of the African-born population in the United States age 25 and older, 87.9% reported having a high school degree or higher,[19] compared with 78.8% of Asian-born immigrants and 76.8% of European-born immigrants, respectively.[20]
Africans from Nigeria (89.1 percent), Ghana (85.9 percent), Botswana (84.7 percent), and Malawi (83 percent) were the most likely to report having a high school degree or higher. Those born in Cape Verde (44.8 percent) and Mauritania (60.8 percent) were the least likely to report having completed a high school education.[21]

I'm having trouble understanding how racism is holding the black man down.

**Jihadin**

Different upbringing? Just shooting from the hip on that.

**Testify**

Well I guess anyone who can afford to emigrate to the USA rather than Europe (which is much closer, and MUCH easier to get to for most africans) is probably relatively wealthy for an African.

**Corpsesarefun**

It takes a lot of effort and determination to move from most of Africa to the US so it follows that they put the same effort and determination into schooling.

**feeder**

ALL the American blacks are already there. Rich, poor, motivated, lazy, etc. Only rich, motivated African blacks will emigrate.

Racism is still a real thing, however.

**Frazzled**

Corpsesarefun wrote:
It takes a lot of effort and determination to move from most of Africa to the US so it follows that they put the same effort and determination into schooling.

There you go. Frazzled's theory is that immigration to the states is effort, thus acting like a test. The hard working people become immigrants to the US generally.
I know all my neighbors in Houston are very hard working people. My Austin neighbor - who is a major contractor - will only people he directly knows or immigrants. Its not the pay. Its the fact they work much harder and do much better work than your generic US native, especially teenagers.

Many african immigrants are not rich though. The illigal immigration trade is bringing many poor Somalians and Nigerians up through Latin American routes. It was a very interesting article on National Geographic.

I wonder how many terrorists have come up from this route.

**Mannahnin**

On a science-fiction note, Heinlein talked about that in Time Enough For Love.

Not in regards to race, but in regards to how pioneers and colonists, at least anyone who goes voluntarily to make a new life in a far place, are more motivated and on average more intelligent than people who don't. In TEfL he was talking about colonizing other planets, and how the folks who did so were stronger and harder-working and more adaptable people than the relatively soft folks who stayed back on Earth.

**dogma**

Wait, the cited article is comparing Egyptian Americans to black people? What?

Also immigrants everywhere in the West tend to be better educated than the domestic populace. They have to be, or they wouldn't usually be let in.

**LordofHats**

I can actually agree that they work harder in school from experience. I had some African immigrants in classes, and they work their asses off. The only person I saw work harder than them as the girl from Kuwait.

**Melissia**

Because those born here are born in to a culture that doesn't encourage successful lives. Also, because those who manage to successfully immigrate in to the US are the exceptional persons.

**Medium of Death**

Blacks?

Really?

That is being kept in the title?

African American or Black Americans at a push, surely.

**Bromsy**

African Immigrants who become Americans are African Americans as far as I'm concerned. And Black Americans just sounds silly. I haven't met many people who get pissy about just being called black.

**Testify**

Melissia wrote:Because those born here are born in to a culture that doesn't encourage successful lives.

People say that here too. I'm not so sure. Honestly I feel sorry for a lot of people in the lower socio-economic class, especially those who aren't too bright. They will never get a decent job, but throughout growing up they're led to believe that they will, and they gakky jobs are below them. I think we're culturally in denial about the existence of working class jobs.

Medium of Death wrote:Blacks?

Really?

That is being kept in the title?

African American or Black Americans at a push, surely.

Blacks. Black people.

Have some sense of context, it's obviously not being used pejoratively.

**sirlynchmob**

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with people who immigrate because they are refugee's from their own country and your government is willing to take them in and take care of them. With all sorts of socialist programs including paying for their college degrees.

It could only mean americans who can't afford to go to college because their own government won't pick up the tab are lazy.

**Shadowseer_Kim**

Testify, I think you are on to something, about the denial.

I heard an interview not too long ago with the president of a mid size company in the northwest that said they can not find enough machinists and welders. The jobs are available, but no young people are interested in the work. The old guys are well, getting old and wanting to retire.

He suggested the same thing, people are in denial about working class jobs and being raised to believe they can all do something much better.

One of the suggestions that came out of it was media, yes mass media. you know, television shows. We have a ton of programs about random rich people and their "reality" lives. or whatever. But we rarely if ever see a positive image, much less a show about standard working class folk. The last 2 shows I can think of that even came close were Roseanne, and Grace Under Fire.. Roseanne was the more popular, and was all about the drama and making fun of being poor.. Grace Under Fire was a little better, but then of course not as popular.

Lesson for the kiddies, train and study and prepare, when oppurtunity knocks, and it will, you will be ready. Now all you have to be is brave enough to grasp it.

**Khornholio**

Mannahnin wrote:
On a science-fiction note, Heinlein talked about that in Time Enough For Love.

Not in regards to race, but in regards to how pioneers and colonists, at least anyone who goes voluntarily to make a new life in a far place, are more motivated and on average more intelligent than people who don't. In TEfL he was talking about colonizing other planets, and how the folks who did so were stronger and harder-working and more adaptable people than the relatively soft folks who stayed back on Earth.

Heinlein was extremely perceptive..

**AustonT**

Hey Kim random fact Grace (her name is Brandon Butler right?) is on daytime soaps on CBS.

**DutchKillsRambo**

Possibly because the social factors holding black americans down isnt just tied to affirmative action?

**Bromsy**

DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Possibly because the social factors holding black americans down isnt just tied to affirmative action?

........ I'm not quite getting where affirmative action came into a thread about how immigrants from africa are generally more educated than white people from america let alone black people from america... but do tell. And you meant "aren't", not "isnt"

**DutchKillsRambo**

Speaking out of context maybe but in my experience comparing why certain groups of blacks are doing better than others inevitably drags affirmative action into it.

Maybe Im just being racist.

Also hard to lump Egyptian Americans in with blacks in America.

Plus arent immigrants in general better students than the average American?

**mattyrm**

Its pretty obvious.

Poor American black people are no different from poor American white people.

And no different from "poor" people anywhere. Colour is irrelevant, you should try walking around a council estste in Britain.. its just a big freakshow of chain smoking, obese drunks who will all die before they hit 60.. and people think we are doing them a favour by giving them wellfare cheques?!

Poor people in the west get used to dependence on welfare, they drink, they eat, they feth like rabbits and their kids do the exact same thing. They get used to sitting on their arses and have no get up and go.

To be honest, If my rent was paid and I always had money for booze and fags, I don't think id be motivated to try either, I think its a vicious cycle, and I can fully understand why they become trapped in it. Why risk going to University when you can stay in the comparative safety of your council house, and sure you aren't well off, but you are always fed and you can get drunk a few days of every week.

Immigrants will be willing to put some effort in to every aspect of their lives, or they would have just sat on their asses instead of you know.. taking the time to come to the US!

Poor people generally stay poor. I think it takes a very strong individual to have some get up and go when both his/her parents have been on wellfare for ten years and that is all they have ever known.

**Alraz_ka**

I think Matty's answer is probably the best explanation for it.

**Grey Templar**

I second that. Poverty leads to handouts, continued poverty leads to regular handouts, regular handouts lead to lazyness, lazyness is addicting and leads to Poverty...

The only reason African Americans have a higher unemployment rate then other nationalities is because of the above cycle. No amount of intervention is going to motivate them, its putting a band-aid on an infected wound that needs to be cut open and allowed to drain.

Immigrants are going to be motivated to work. They came here for a better life. Heck, you need a good education just to pass the Citizenship test. Which, on a side note, I think ALL Americans should be required to take it to get their full rights. Its silly how the majority of people know very little about our nations history.

**Captain Fantastic**

I always imagined that only the best have the money and credentials come to the states, and when they do, they come here with intent to become educated and prosperous. They're very hardworking people, and they're usually successful.

I don't think anyone really thinks about Africans when they refer to the "Black Man". Africans don't identify with black groups or niches, like churches, or barbers, or more importantly, identify themselves as "black". It's a funny thing, but understandable.

**Henners91**

Maybe having worked in the admissions department for a University skews my opinion but (obviously) most Africans applying for our services were already from rich families or had some kind of scholarship; which meant all the migrants we were bringing into the country were likely already affluent and were attaining an education.

I'd imagine that we'd need to see statistics about how African migrants are getting into the US; I think you'd find that a lot only get their Visas because they are coming for an education; they don't represent the full gambit of the society they are coming from as African-Americans do in the US. The logic of OP would be like me suggesting that if wealthy African-Americans came to the UK for an education, then the majority of African-Americans must be smarter/better educated than the UK's domestic black population.

**sebster**

The social circumstances for black people in the US are not the same as the social circumstances for immigrants.

Immigrants, especially nowadays with an increasing focus on skilled immigration, almost always tend to come from at least middle class backgrounds.

Black people born in the USA are typically lower income earners, with a significant portion in outright poverty.

Poor parents beget poor children. Middle class parents beget middle class children. There's some mobility but the rule is pretty strong in general.

You can look at these circumstances, realise what they are and accept this, or you can go with the mattyrm method of believing poverty is an inherent moral failing some people are born with.

**Amaya**

Or that laziness is an inherent moral failing many people are born with and circumstances where you are given a free ride and not forced to do much of anything will not change that condition.

**Mannahnin**

Most people in a relatively wealthy country aren't forced to do much of anything. Being "given a free ride" is usually something that only happens in wealthy families. I don't think it's a particularly accurate description of the meager existence maintained by anyone's who's on welfare and not working their ass off.

**sebster**

Amaya wrote:
Or that laziness is an inherent moral failing many people are born with and circumstances where you are given a free ride and not forced to do much of anything will not change that condition.

And so do we conclude that given most of these welfare deadbeats were born into poor families, that such laziness is genetic? Or do we consider that the circumstances play a powerful part, and picking out one socio-economic group and saying 'they're the horrible ones who make it worse for us and we should mean to them' is just about making ourselves feel good.

This crap rings hollow whether its bagging out the rich or the poor.

**Henners91**

Laziness being an inherent trait seems to essentially imply that there's a large section of society that even in the most adverse of conditions would choose to be lazy parasites; it seems like a justification for productive elements of said society to be burdened with forever maintaining said bloodsuckers?