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Hello everyone,

I'm nearing the end of my Ultramarine painting, but I still haven't been able to find an effective way to paint gold in a way that is effective (no globbing yet full coverage). It seems when I water it down, it won't cover the blue, but if I don't water it down, it looks sloppy and you can see the brush strokes. What colors do you paint places that you want to be gold, first. Should I use some sort of a brown over the blue and then try to paint it gold? How exactly do you deal with gold?

I also like to paint the purity seals white, but I can never get white to cover over the blue. How do all of you make white look good. It seems to be, by far, the hardest color to paint and make it look decent. Any tips for a fairly new painter? Thanks!

All gold should be base coated with a medium brown first. I use Calthan Brown personally.

For white, use Ceramite White. Thin it down a little and do 2 or 3 layers. I've yet to come across a better white paint. It's one of the few GW paints in the new line worth using.

 Aerethan wrote:
All gold should be base coated with a medium brown first. I use Calthan Brown personally.

For white, use Ceramite White. Thin it down a little and do 2 or 3 layers. I've yet to come across a better white paint. It's one of the few GW paints in the new line worth using.

Interesting, I'll definitely have to try the Ceramite White. So, you're telling me that the new line of GW paints are really bad? I recently purchased quite a few of them. What makes them so terrible?

Use bronze as a basecoat for gold also, it works really well.

I wrote a blog entry specifically for painting Gold... it might help: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-gold-rush-quest-for-best-gold.html

Balthasar Gold. Get it! It's far better than doing a brown basecoat for gold.

Much of the new GW line isn't great, but the "base" range I personally love. It's LIKE the old foundation range, but all the paints are much more vibrant. I can personally recommend Balthasar Gold for painting gold, Ceramite White, Averland Sunset is great for painting yellow (better than the old Iyundan foundation) and also the dark brown who's name I can't remember are all paints I can recommend from the new GW line.

For gold I do Balthasar Gold, an edge highlight of shining gold and then a wash of brown or black. If you want a brighter gold (admittedly that is quite dark) you could use balthasar gold, Shining gold over most the model leaving balthasar onlly in the crevices and then a brighter gold for the highlights and then again I would wash it either brown or black.

Indeed, the Base range are the only GW products from the new line that I use, besides select metallics that are unique in color.

Everything else in the current GW line is watered down and meh.

It's mainly the layer paints I don't like. As the name suggests, they are "designed" for a layering painting style, so they're "designed" to be watered down and rather transparent which is good for building up gradual layers. However if you DON'T want to use that painting style they suck for everything else, and since the GW range consists mostly of "layers", if you don't want to use that technique you're limited to the much smaller range of "bases".

I'd rather the entire range had the properties of the base range, and then if I wanted to use them for layering I could water them down myself (or even buy a thinning medium).

On golds I use a bestial brown as a base, then I use Vallejo model color golds that are somewhat watered down, it gives it a really smooth look.

For whites I used to use astropath grey than a watered down white with lots of coats to get is smooth. Now I use the GW base white thinned down and then a few coats of Vallejo pure white.

Hmmm, so the layer paints are... lighter? You have to do many more layers of them compared to the base paints? What exactly is GW's logic behind this? It seem to me that they should make all of their paints the base style.

I've tried the vallejo paints, and I like them more and more. I've also been looking at the Reaper series. What is the concensus on these types of paints?

There are several reasons for the thinner paints, none of which benefit painters.

1. Less pigment per pot means less cost on GW's part.
2. Less pigment per pot means paints get used up faster, resulting in more sales for GW.
3. Thinning paints according to GW makes it easier to layer, even though anyone with half a brain can figure out how to thin paints themselves.

It really brings nothing to the table. Anyone who was interested in layering techniques already knew how to thin paints. It isn't hard information to find. So by thinning out the paint, they remove themselves from my palette as I can get the same colors in heavier density from other companies.

If GW had made the entire range as heavily pigmented as the Base colors, GW would have moved to being my primary paint line outside of specialty colors(mostly metals) that I'd still use.

Instead, the majority of my paints are old GW, current Vallejo, and the odd Reaper or P3 paint. Vallejo probably makes up 70% of my paints.

And if Vallejo does like they have in the past, they'll make a range of "base" colors that match GW's, which would be wonderful as it's more paint for less money and it's already in dropper bottles. Vallejo has legacy on their side as well, since they offer all the old GW colors still, even ones that were discontinued long ago(terracotta and jade green come to mind).

If I had to choose only a single company for paint, it would be vallejo, and if only a single line, it would be Model Colour.

The only "must have" GW paints to me right now are Ceramite White and Mephiston Red. Everything else is so so. I have all the metals just because I have a thing for metallic paints. I think I have about 9 or 10 shades of gold from various lines.

Balthasar Gold. Get it!

I based all my gold in my BlackLegion army with this , its great. The layer gold Auric Armour on the other hand is a ball buster to get right.

I think the move to "layer" paints was to bring the method of layering to new gamers/painters. I think GW is just trying to accommodate new gamers too much by dumbing down the range.

The tin-foil hat wearers might say it's because they make more money with less pigment, but really I think they have such a huge mark up that I doubt the pigment cost is significant to actually affect their profits significantly. Or to make gamers use more paint so they run out faster and have to buy more paint more often, but personally I think they achieved that with their crappy pots that dry out. In all the years I've been painting I reckon I've only replaced less than 5% of my paints because they actually ran out. Most of them dried up forcing me to buy more, or they haven't dried up and I'm still using them (have some pots that are around the 15 year old mark now).

One of the tin-foil hat arguments I can agree with is it encourages buying more paints rather than mixing your own. If you look at the GW painting guide, they're recommending buying 5 or 6 paints to do most colours. Of course that's unnecessary, you can just mix the in between colours, but that's what they recommend and that's how the new colour range has been "tuned". Though again if you want to take off your tin-foil hat that's equally just to help out new gamers who don't want to mix colours, ie. further dumbing down things.

@Aerethan, really? Those are the only paints you like from the new range? I personally haven't bee disappointed with any of the base paints I've tried. Have you tried either Balthasar Gold or Averland Sunset? I think both are great paints. I also mentioned the dark brown base paint, which I think is good because dark browns often have poor coverage or have good coverage but are chalky looking, the dark brown base still has a decent colour to it but covers quite well also. Really I can't complain about any of the bases I've used, the only complaint might be they don't cover quite as well as the old foundations, but the fact they are more vibrant makes up for that.

use black as the basecoat, and some type of mix medium to dilute. It should work properly...

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think the move to "layer" paints was to bring the method of layering to new gamers/painters. I think GW is just trying to accommodate new gamers too much by dumbing down the range.

The tin-foil hat wearers might say it's because they make more money with less pigment, but really I think they have such a huge mark up that I doubt the pigment cost is significant to actually affect their profits significantly. Or to make gamers use more paint so they run out faster and have to buy more paint more often, but personally I think they achieved that with their crappy pots that dry out. In all the years I've been painting I reckon I've only replaced less than 5% of my paints because they actually ran out. Most of them dried up forcing me to buy more, or they haven't dried up and I'm still using them (have some pots that are around the 15 year old mark now).

One of the tin-foil hat arguments I can agree with is it encourages buying more paints rather than mixing your own. If you look at the GW painting guide, they're recommending buying 5 or 6 paints to do most colours. Of course that's unnecessary, you can just mix the in between colours, but that's what they recommend and that's how the new colour range has been "tuned". Though again if you want to take off your tin-foil hat that's equally just to help out new gamers who don't want to mix colours, ie. further dumbing down things.

@Aerethan, really? Those are the only paints you like from the new range? I personally haven't bee disappointed with any of the base paints I've tried. Have you tried either Balthasar Gold or Averland Sunset? I think both are great paints. I also mentioned the dark brown base paint, which I think is good because dark browns often have poor coverage or have good coverage but are chalky looking, the dark brown base still has a decent colour to it but covers quite well also. Really I can't complain about any of the bases I've used, the only complaint might be they don't cover quite as well as the old foundations, but the fact they are more vibrant makes up for that.

I have several of the new base paints, all metallics included. I didn't say they were all bad, but the only ones I view as mandatory are the white and red, and that is mostly due to the other colors already having equals from other ranges. The gold is useful, and sadly the pot of Sunset I got was coagulated so I can't comment too much on that one, but the old version of it was fine as it was, there wasn't a makor need for improvement on it. Ceramite White is easily the best white mini paint on the market. Mephiston red is easily the best all around red paint due to it's shade and pigment density. Mechrite was too dark and still didn't cover as well as Mephiston.

So to someone who already has an entire library of paints, those two colors are the only "must haves". That said, if you don't already have a library of paints, I would indeed recommend the entire Base range from GW, especially for beginners who don't have the experience needed to get thinner paints to behave like they want.

Also, layering is far from the ideal method for beginners. Dry brushing is easily the quickest method of painting someone can learn, and it leads to tabletop results in very little time. The other method for new painters would be the basecoat/shade method. Both of those require minimal effort and skill, as well as requiring very few paints for a given color scheme. Look at any GW paint guide(oddly enough they aren't online at all, I guess WD is the only way to get them now). They recommend like 5 shades of blue to paint an ultramarine. Any marine can be done to tabletop standard in 2 paints and a wash barring detail colors like eyes and ammo pouches. Ultramarine? Maccrage Blue, Calgar Blue, Nuln Oil thinned down a bit, details, done. You don't need 3 layers, a shade, a glaze and a highlight color to get a basic marine done.



I did that marine with 3 blues, a single red, gold, silver, brown and a little bone for the seal. Wash the whole thing with a soft body black and bam, 30 minute tabletop marine. GW would have you buy 2 golds, 2 browns, 2 silvers, 4 blues, a glaze and a shade, as well as some basing goop that lasts all of 10 models.

GW's "method" is designed to sell more paints. To think that a single 'Eavy Metal painter uses those methods or even most of the GW paints is ludicrous. I've had friends ask those painters what they used, and on several occasions they let slip a paint name that GW never made, or this wash, that primer what have you.
Hell look at GW's "primer", $15.75 for a can. Wal Mart sells gray primer for $.99 a can. I defy you to find any major brand name that sells spray can primer at GW prices. The entire system is designed to suck money out of new players, instead of aiming at them getting anything painted on the table.

I've never seen anyone paint a model by the GW tutorial and have it come out looking anywhere near the GW finished product.

/rant

Sorry about that. Anyway, yes I have Balth Gold, yes it is good. It is also expensive, so I still base golds with Calthan Brown and when that runs out the Vallejo Heavy Brown.

I like to base gold with Tin Bitz myself. But they I work it up through Dwarf Bronze then shining gold and finally a touch of boltgun before using a sepia wash to tie it together. Depending on the ratios it can give a light bronze to an "antiquated" gold.

Needs a few paints though.

@AllSeeingSkink

No company ever turned down the profit margin. No matter how much they mark up on paints, they would want to mark up more. Exhibit 1 - finecast.

And encouraging to buy more paint being the tinfoil argument - they do encourage to buy more paint. Two reasons. Reason one, look at any artist range of colors. Very few with maybe 7-8 being a must consistent with what you are saying. But to mix those requires knowledge of color theory and a trained eye. Now imagine an absolute beginner like me about 12 years ago. The biggest challenge was to mix the colors consistently. Try mixing just enough paint to color 50 swordsmen, not 10 Ultramarines. Much easier to buy a pre-mixed color listed as "highlight" in the book. Reason two, profits! See above.

Returning back to the topic - I really fell in love with Vallejo Liquid Metal range of metallics. Very nice, even coverage on any undercoat and being very finely ground, they build up much slower than any GW paint. After using them for a bit, I tried again to use GW metallics and they just feel poorly ground for me.

If you are looking for a one layer wonder for gold, then I would definitely recommend vallejo liquid gold, which is gold flake suspended in alcohol. It costs the same as a gw pot and will last a long, long time.

Very old bad shot here, but you can see a black model with a single layer of VLG on the middle of the sword, with a wash on the bottom, and a layer of gw shining gold on the top.



Results really speak for themself, but it is rather tricky to work with and takes a bit of getting used to. Still, I use it all the time now for excellent gold bases.

Yeah Vallejo Old Gold is the name of the alchohol based gold. You have to thin it with alchohol, and cannot mix it with acrylics, but a smoother more metallic gold I have not found. Also the coverage is phenominal.

I also mix it with the alchohol based Vallejo silver to highlight it, etc.

nazartp wrote:
@AllSeeingSkink

No company ever turned down the profit margin. No matter how much they mark up on paints, they would want to mark up more. Exhibit 1 - finecast.

I don't deny they haven't designed the range to sell more pots of paint, all their painting guides involve 5 or 6 paints like I said above. I just think it's a bit overly tin-foil-hattish to think they are trying to save money on pigment by watering the paints down a lot. I'd think the profit to be gained on such a tactic would be very risky given the huge mark up on their paints, scaring off even a couple of customers would outweigh any savings for actually watering down their paints. Losing the $3.70 for someone not buying the paint in the first place would outweigh the few cents they might gain for watering it down. The thing about finecast, if people want to play GW games they're forced to buy finecast models unless they want to use proxies or heavily converted models, GW have the customer in a corner. When it comes to paint, customers have tons of options, so my only conclusion is GW are either stupid or they genuinely thought people wanted paints that were pre-thinned for layering.

+1 on the Vallejo Liquid Gold series of paints. Golds, Copper, Silver, etc. They are all exceptional!!! They go one super smooth, require no thinning, layer well and are easy to use.

The only thing that goes on about as smooth are the metallics from the Vallejo Model Air line and they are still not as smooth as the Liquid Gold paints.

Liquid Gold from Vallejo is indeed awesome.

However you need a separate set of brushes for using it. The alcohol and solvents involved eat away at natural hair, destroying that nice sable brush you have. Instead, use Taklon or nylon brushes which won't get eaten up, and are quite cheap to boot.

Another note about liquid gold is that the pigment settles VERY quickly, and alcohol dries out rather fast, so you will need to stir up the paint frequently as well as add in a little more alcohol as you go, otherwise it ends up drying on the palette.

White can either be layered up with only white, or it can be layered with different colours, beginning with whatever color you want the shade to be in. Its the way I do it, and I think its the only good way. One alternative is to basecoat the model with white basecoat and try not to touch the areas that are to be white with another color.

For any gold coloring I almost always do a layer of Tin Bitz and then once it dries do a light layer of Shining Gold on top of that. It always comes out looking good. It's what I do for my Khorne Berzerkers.