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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/27 23:13:53
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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Does anyone think it is possible that Alpha Legion might actually serve Malice/Malil?
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I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. -Groucho Marx
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 00:02:59
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Apprehensive Inquisitorial Apprentice
Censored by order of the Inquisition
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iGuy91 wrote:Last time I talked with my legionnaires, they were a little confused themselves. They kept asking me, and I wasn't exactly sure myself, I would say if they were in separate warbands, it might vary.
By the way, I am indeed Alpharius
Ah now we appear to be in a bit of a rut sir because I am Alpharius.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 03:30:30
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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ShatteredBlade wrote:Does anyone think it is possible that Alpha Legion might actually serve Malice/Malal?
Malal no longer exists
Malice: Unlikely, nothing about them fits Malice ESPECIALLY they're original goal which is completely different than the goal of Malice. Alpha Legion was told by the Cabal that to save the Galaxy, Horus had to win. Malice on the other hand, seeks the utter destruction of everything in the galaxy. Utter opposites, but it could be interesting to see some sort of storyline that shows Alpha Legion swinging from wanting to save the galaxy to wanting to destroy the galaxy. On second thought, I think it'd be pretty neat to have roughly half of Alpha Legion following, say, Alpharius, still seeking hope for the galaxy while the other half, following Omegon, seeks the galaxy's obliteration thus pitting twin against twin (and the little splinters that aren't aligned with either side going off and doing their own shebang for whom/whatever)
Currently, I'd say that since it now seems that at least some portions of Alpha legion has certainly fallen to chaos, but to say that all have fallen? I'd have to disagree. I believe that some are still seeking hope for the galaxy and perhaps are waging silent battles that none ever hear of (unlike their clutzy chaos worshipping kin who always end up revealing themselves as the man behind the curtain). Automatically Appended Next Post: Legion of Damnation wrote: iGuy91 wrote:Last time I talked with my legionnaires, they were a little confused themselves. They kept asking me, and I wasn't exactly sure myself, I would say if they were in separate warbands, it might vary.
By the way, I am indeed Alpharius
Ah now we appear to be in a bit of a rut sir because I am Alpharius.
Well I'm legionnaire #427 so no problem here... wait, my helmet has "Property of Alpharius" inscribed on the inside of it... am I Alpharius?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 03:32:24
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 09:47:13
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Norn Queen
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They were being loyal to the Emperor over the Imperium. They saw what the Emperors goal was, and saw (however manipulated by the Cabal) two visions of the future, one accomplishing the Emperors goal, one damning humanity to ten thousand years of misery. They went with the former option, the means of accomplishing it didn't matter.
It was a matter of loyalty to the Emperor over the Imperium, not to their Primarch over the Emperor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 18:26:59
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Alpha Legion are traitors who like to pretend to be loyalists. Or the other way around. Sometimes both. Or neither.
Regardless, easiest just to shoot on sight.
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-James
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 18:37:46
Subject: Re:What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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How is that in DOW II main chaos marines are Alpha legion? Aren't they like more of a infiltrator type?
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ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 19:14:58
Subject: Re:What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Fixture of Dakka
West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA
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It'd be easier if the Alpha Legion were bad guys that followed Horus and their primarch into evil, like the rest of the Traitor legions. No need to be some sort of double- or triple-agent special snowflakes.
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"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 20:59:15
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Kabalite Conscript
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KingDeath wrote:
They wouldn't be chaos space marines otherwise. Like it or not, all traitor legions are firmly in the chaos camp, either willingly or unwillingly furthering the plans of the Dark Gods.
Even Ahriman who thinks that he is out for himself does little more than to play his role in Tzeentch's convoluted plans.
That's the thing though, the Alpha Legion has been left ambiguous on purpose. They can be written as your typical corrupted Legion, or as heroes doing what they must to save humanity and the universe at large from destruction. There is no canon stating explicitly what they are one way or another. It's left open for interpretation.
And not all of the Traitor Legions ALL worship the Ruinous Powers. Take the Night Lords as an example. There's a Night Lord daemon prince mentioned in the 4th ed codex, there's a daemon prince in Lord of the Night, but the Night Lords are also mentioned as disliking worship, only using Chaos as a tool, or (in the case of the Soul Hunter series) hating anything that is warp tainted. Not all Legions, warbands, or marines are the same. They're bound to have multiple views and opinions. The 40k universe doesn't have to be as one dimensional as you keep insisting. Simply saying that they worship the Chaos gods because their army is mentioned in the Chaos Space Marines codex is rather silly. Are you going to tell me that all units in the Dark Eldar codex are Eldar next?
My point is simply that the Alpha Legion is an enigma that can be whatever you really want it to be, but there is NO concrete version of what they are. If you want your Alpha Legion to be worshipers of Chaos Undivided, cool. That's all you. Want them to be Tzeentch devotees? Again, that's all up to you. Want them to be the heroes masquerading as villains for the sake of the universe? That's also fine. They're left open to be played however the player wants.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 21:07:57
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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The Alpha Legion is very ambiguous about which, if any, of the gods they worship. Like any Traitor Legion, there are a few splinter groups that don't follow the main goal, if indeed there still is one. They initially didn't worship any gods, and in their 3.5 rules, an army using their rules wasn't allowed any marks of Chaos, but they do start Chaos cults among the inhabitants of planets they're planning to attack, and it's hard to see how they could resist the taint of Chaos while promoting it for ten thousand years. They don't live within the Eye though, so they could just use middle men to start the cults, avoiding its touch themselves.
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Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 21:15:38
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
Massachusetts
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Do you have any fluff examples of them NOT being chaos marines in the 40k setting? It doesn't matter what the Night Lords are doing, we're talking about the Alpha Legion.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 21:16:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/28 21:39:29
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Kabalite Conscript
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Durza wrote:The Alpha Legion is very ambiguous about which, if any, of the gods they worship. Like any Traitor Legion, there are a few splinter groups that don't follow the main goal, if indeed there still is one. They initially didn't worship any gods, and in their 3.5 rules, an army using their rules wasn't allowed any marks of Chaos, but they do start Chaos cults among the inhabitants of planets they're planning to attack, and it's hard to see how they could resist the taint of Chaos while promoting it for ten thousand years. They don't live within the Eye though, so they could just use middle men to start the cults, avoiding its touch themselves.
Elegantly put and entirely possible. They may also have been lost on the path towards their goal as well, we don't know for certain either way.
They don't only use Chaos to disrupt though. There's a story in Victories of the Space Marines and another in Age of Darkness that shows some other methods they deploy. I really don't want to spoil the stories by saying too much. however.
Orblivion wrote:Do you have any fluff examples of them NOT being chaos marines in the 40k setting? It doesn't matter what the Night Lords are doing, we're talking about the Alpha Legion.
I see that the term "example" is lost on you. The intention of bringing up the Night Lords is simply that they have more fluff showing that not all of the members of the Legion are exactly the same and may have differing views of the universe and goals. Simply being a "Chaos Space Marine" does not shoe-horn one into frenzied daemon worship.
If the Alpha Legion did split they may have differing interpretations of their goals. Some may be more personal, some may be deluded, some may be more altruistic, some may be malicious. We do not know and that's part of the beauty of the Legion. If the Legion is still functioning as a cohesive whole things may still be just as complicated, however. We, again, do not truly know. Read the stories in the anthologies I mentioned. I'll spoil one thing, there's no use of the forces of Chaos at all. There's just as few examples of them worshiping Chaos as there are of them not.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 21:53:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/29 15:56:19
Subject: Re:What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high
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DarthMarko wrote:How is that in DOW II main chaos marines are Alpha legion? Aren't they like more of a infiltrator type?
They were actually in DOW II Black Legion
Alpha Legion was Soulstorm
while the Word Bearers were in Dark Crusade
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Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
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Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/29 16:02:06
Subject: Re:What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If you look at Alpha Legion background in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, it describes how they started waging their own campaign and setting their own military objectives without real reference to what others were doing.
Their "fall" may take a different form than just submitting directly to Chaos in general or one god in particular. They may very well still think they are fighting for a goal, but they may be deceiving themselves. They may set military objectives as if they were still fighting some organized campaign, but the real objective may simply be to cause random mayhem. They may have lost their true purpose without knowing it.
For example, they may justify raiding and blowing up Imperial supply depots or capturing interstellar transports as disrupting the Imperium's supply lines, but their true effect on the overall logistical situation may be minor, insignificant or irrelevant (if for example the sector has surplus capacity or is not actively engaged in war). In reality, it may just be piracy under a different name, even if they don't themselves believe it to be such.
Even those in the Alpha Legion that believe themselves loyalists in the long run may succumb to this erosion of purpose. Their attacks might be justified as "serving the long term interests of humanity and the Emperor", even though it really just amounts to smash and grab raiding to benefit themselves.
With their decentralized structure, it may also be a situation of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Instead of any coherent plan, they might just be individual units acting like any other warband, though in this case they might still be convinced they are serving some higher purpose.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/30 14:42:09
Subject: What God did Alpha Legion fall to?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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I think Irucundus is probably accurate, and it would be the most fitting of the tragic nature of those who fall to Chaos. Just like the Emperor's Children sought perfection and sensation and are now jaded wretches, or how Thousand Sons were tricked into becoming little more than automatons, so too have the scheming Alpha Legion fallen to a pale shadow, deluding only themselves. Of course, this makes them no less dangerous. After all, who knows how wide a web of deception they are willing to create? Or how twisted and labyrinthine their thoughts may have become?
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-James
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