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So your main issue is that daemons dont have a great deal of shooting and have a poor deployment rule?
Dont see how 6th has any effect on it.
Infact, its actually bolstered daemons if anything.

Daemons are very delicate and break easily, so an army of seemingly random choices will struggle badly.
Really do need to pick a style and run with it.

 Jackal wrote:
So your main issue is that daemons dont have a great deal of shooting and have a poor deployment rule?
Dont see how 6th has any effect on it.
Infact, its actually bolstered daemons if anything.

Daemons are very delicate and break easily, so an army of seemingly random choices will struggle badly.
Really do need to pick a style and run with it.

QFT

My Daemons got their first outing in 6th last night against a pretty hard 1500pt Necron list that rocked 2 Annihilation barges, 2 units of destroyers, 3 squads of warriors and some wraiths.

I tabled him in 4 turns, would have been three but I got drawn into CC.

My list:

5 Horrors
5 Horrors
9 Flamers
9 Flamers
9 Flamers
8 Screamers
8 Screamers
8 Screamers
1 Herald

Bottom line, Screamers eat tanks (those barges were AV13 all round to start remember!) for breakfast, and there is really very little that Flamers won't, er..toast.

I love this list, but am going to drop the Screamers down to 5 per squad (9 is overkill, even for me), which allows me to throw in Fateweaver. Will test this weekend and update!

 Warboss Hazrat wrote:
My Daemons got their first outing in 6th last night against a pretty hard 1500pt Necron list that rocked 2 Annihilation barges, 2 units of destroyers, 3 squads of warriors and some wraiths.

I tabled him in 4 turns, would have been three but I got drawn into CC.

My list:

5 Horrors
5 Horrors
9 Flamers
9 Flamers
9 Flamers
8 Screamers
8 Screamers
8 Screamers
1 Herald

Bottom line, Screamers eat tanks (those barges were AV13 all round to start remember!) for breakfast, and there is really very little that Flamers won't, er..toast.

I love this list, but am going to drop the Screamers down to 5 per squad (9 is overkill, even for me), which allows me to throw in Fateweaver. Will test this weekend and update!

Nice, but I'd be worried about only having two troops.

I hear you, two troops choices isn't great, but I put this list together as a "leaf blower" (although I am not a fan of that term at all), rather than to win through taking objectives. I could drop out a flamer and screamer per squad to take some more horrors I guess.

A smart player will pie plate those Horrors to death, but while he is busy doing that, the Screamers are eating the face off any ranged weaponry.

With Daemons, as long as you are aggressive enough, those Flamers should guarantee First Blood (hopefully turn one), and then go after the opponent's Warlord. With all that happening in the backfield, it takes some nerve to remember to play the mission!

Hazrat

Throw in a couple more 5 man horror squads. 170 points for 2 squads, you can definitely find the points in that list. Also I assume you have Changeling..that guy is amazing.

Personally I wouldn't go for Fateweaver below 2000 points unless I was running Flying Circus, he costs too many points that would be better spent elsewhere. YMMV though.

6th ed daemons, since the upgrade came out, really only have one weakness: anti-flyer. That's it. Flamers went from being good to being silly good, and screamers went from being OK to being silly good. The new chariots, taken en masse definitely reach into the "good" stage. In fact, there's now very few units in the CD codex that are intrinsically bad. The worst are simply meh, and a surprising number are now really good.

 Testify wrote:
Throw in a couple more 5 man horror squads. 170 points for 2 squads, you can definitely find the points in that list. Also I assume you have Changeling..that guy is amazing.

Personally I wouldn't go for Fateweaver below 2000 points unless I was running Flying Circus, he costs too many points that would be better spent elsewhere. YMMV though.

I'd use Fateweaver at 1500 points, heck, I'd probably use him at 1000. I realize that most wouldn't but he's one of the reasons I started playing daemons. I don't think I could give him up.

I'm back and forth on Iron Hide, but I don't think it's useless. Hide on three Princes is cheaper than a throw away squad of 5 horrors, and if it keeps my expensive Princes alive a bit longer it is points well spent.

Whilst reading this thread, I'm new to daemons and had my first game against NECRONS, supposedly flavour of the month at the moment, and I wiped the floor with him. Either he was an inexperienced general or I did something right, but I only ran 1 daemon prince? And it did significantly well? Load out was

Mark of nurgle, noxious touch, iron hide, wings, breath of chaos.

A point sink yes but I don't know wether I was better of taking 2 cheaper ones?? He didn't die??

Andy140491 wrote:
Whilst reading this thread, I'm new to daemons and had my first game against NECRONS, supposedly flavour of the month at the moment, and I wiped the floor with him. Either he was an inexperienced general or I did something right, but I only ran 1 daemon prince? And it did significantly well? Load out was

Mark of nurgle, noxious touch, iron hide, wings, breath of chaos.

A point sink yes but I don't know wether I was better of taking 2 cheaper ones?? He didn't die??

Hmm, well with a Nurgle daemon prince I think the loadout you took is probably the best possible one. If you're shelling out for wings and all that then its worth taking iron hide for the 3+ save against massed bolters and the like. The main point is that princes tend to attract alot of fire, and if you don't have a number of viable killy units then it will be priority number one. If your list had plenty of big units of screamers/flamers/fiends then your lone prince might be alright, as they'll have to make a tough decision on who to concentrate on. In the list posted earlier there were a few small threats, but the Bloodthirster and Prince would be the clear first priority, as the units like fiends and screamers were in such small numbers they could safely be ignored while the bigger threats like the FMCs and flamers were dealt with.

TLDR - Princes are usually best to have redundancy with i.e. another prince, but as long as you have other equally or more dangerous units you may be alright running one alone. However, for those 200+ points you could get around 8-9 flamers or screamers, which may be a more effective use of your points. As with most things though, YMMV, so no need to drop your lone prince if he's working well for you.

Well my list is

Bloodthirster

Herald of tzeentch, disc, bolt, we are legion, breath, mastery

5 horrors x 2

5 horrors x 2

5 plaguebearers x 2

5 plaguebearers x 2

5 flamers x 3

9 screamers

Daemon prince, mark of nurgle, wings, iron hide, breath, noxious touch.

I think there's enough to worry about there? Tell me if I'm wrong??


Not to deviate from the orginal post. IMO daemons need synergy to show their strengths, which is why we have different gods?

Khorne is assault fantastic, and I think bloodcrushers paired with fateweaver makes them durable too! That's added tzeentch...

Slaanesh is really really quick, but very fragile, add a nurgle wall! Plaguebearers perhaps?

I just think our army is very versatile, but you need to make it work together. Your marines, are an EASIER (no offence to any csm player) army to play. You have stand alone units whereas daemons dont, but combined daemons could wipe out marines? It's just thinking before you play. If you want a straight forward army play a gun line. Or grey knights...

 Rivet wrote:
@Jihallah: I am not saying I only play to win. I play to have fun, what I am getting at, is the only lists that stand a chance of winning (not just having fun) are the super competitive lists. As in, if you do not want to be tabled by turn two, you need to run either Tally or flying circus.

I. Do. Not. Play. Daemons. My wife does, forgive me for not knowing the rhetoric for army lists for an army I do not play. I mentioned both of those to her and she knew what I was talking about the moment I said them.

She understands those lists and has been playing around with her codex to see what works and what fits her play style... Beyond those two lists.

I don't play "competitive" lists. Fine tuning them gets to me. I don't have problems being tabled by turn two, except when I ran as many MC's as possible VS eldar S6 spam. I've had my first wave wiped to a single unit, but a single bloodthirster or bloodcrusher squad will tear up an IG gunline And why isn't she posting up, so we can get an idea of what she wants from the army, the way she wants it to work and what fluff lines to follow etc?

amasokka88 wrote:
You don't have to take a tally or flying circus list to succeed. That is categorically wrong, and is what people keep trying to tell you. Fair enough, some people go with full-on flying circus/tally lists, but I find it works best to have a couple of FMCs, some flamers, some screamers, some variation in troops, and you won't be "tabled by turn two".

I am not the only person telling you this. But I like how you've gone from the only playable lists being competitive and you play to have fun. The conclusions draw themselves
as far as the list-
You have 2 sets of troops that can score. One is T4 with 5++, the other is T3 with 5++. This screams "NOT GONNA LAST TOO LONG EH GUY"
Nurglings- why? Can't score. Don't hurt. Are annoying. Why?
T.herald chariot- You know you want another one what gifts did/does it have? That's the important question here. If you look at what you can get per HQ FOC slot (1 GD or 2 heralds), you can get more wounds out of 2 heralds, more elements (which means your waves will be bigger, more options, redundancy etc), and the T value and the saves of the two are quite comparable. Pairs of heralds are good, use that FOC like no one else can (except SW)
3 fiends and 3 flamers feel too small, especially now flamers are a little bit better than "suicidal prayer to the scatter dice gods". 3 fiends screams "focus me down in one turn so you don't have to put up with lots of s5 rending attacks hitting and running amongst your army".
Chariot?...really? They seem... extremely fragile. In an army with 3 rhino's and an open topped chariot, I know where the AT weapons are gonna point. One just doesn't cut it.
DP of nurgle with wings...and? Or is it just flying around with wings and MoN? in which case-

It all over the place. I like the representation of the whole pantheon, but it can be done in a much more efficient way. And efficient armies tend to be more fun than inefficient armies, if your playing for & giggles, in a competition, or if your house is on the line because of those silly investments you made with money borrowed from dodgy characters- its always more fun if your army works efficiently!

So far I am really enjoying mono Tzeentch with a little bit of foot ig as an allied detachment. Cheap guardsmen can hold objectives in my deployment zone, and ac can open transports. Guardsmen are really durable in 6th as long as they are willing to go to ground.