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2012/08/29 20:00:21
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Amaya wrote: Why do these small homogeneous nations keep insisting that their policies would work in the US?
Because they are jealous of our ability to boogie:
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/08/29 20:11:35
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
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RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/08/29 23:06:42
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Amaya wrote: Please tell me all about the diversity in Canada.
Rather than write a treatise, I'll just tell you to start here.
If you want, I can also point out just how "homogeneous" France, the UK, Spain, and other European nations are. Honestly, the only one of significance that really fits your argument is Germany.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/29 23:24:05
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/08/29 23:30:54
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Which amuses me, because Germany seems to be content with ripping apart the EU...
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/08/29 23:41:06
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
America is 72.4% White, 27.6% nonwhite.
If you separate Latinos/Hispanics from that group (only European American Hispanics) you have 63.7% white and 36.3% nonwhite.
Let's put it this way since we're going to make outrageous claims about Canada. The black population of the US alone is 38.9 million to Canada's 34.9 million total. The total nonwhite population is the US (excluding European American Hispanics) is 85.1 million.
The nonwhite population of the United States is higher than the total population of every European nation (excluding Russia).
Edit: Really Dogma? The UK is 92% white. They're even whiter than Germany...
Wait, are you really trying to reduce questions of diversity to matters of race?
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/08/29 23:44:47
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Amaya wrote: Of course you would resort to attempts at misdirection when you are so woefully incorrect.
I'm asking a simple question, "Are you attempting to reduce diversity to race?", that is directly pertinent to what you stated. That isn't misdirection, its asking for clarification.
Regardless, I'll go ahead and assume that you are. To begin, race is not the same as ethnicity even though that's how people in the US tend to see it. As such, counting up all the Hispanic and Black people living in the US isn't going to give you a good picture of US diversity, but if you want to go with that I will too; because it actually paints a picture of the US that is not especially diverse relative to any particular nation. The reality is that while the US has a large degree of diversity in terms of ethnic minorities, it has a relatively small degree of diversity in terms of actual ethnicity. The vast majority of Black people in America, for example, are ethnically American, at least to the extent that an American ethnicity exists. Hispanics are a different case, drawing from several ethnic backgrounds, and being in large part dominated by relatively recent immigrants as well as ethnic Spaniards.
Further, I'll address your second point regarding sheer demographic size. Quite simply, it doesn't matter that much when considering diversity in terms of culture. Its an important variable in politics due to circumstantial considerations (especially when paired with a large geographic size), but that's distinct from the type of diversity you're referring to.
The ethnic minorities in France are estimated to be under 10% of the total population by the way.
Ethnic minority is a term that relates to race, which is distinct from ethnicity. If you look at ethnicity ~20-25% of France's population is non-French, which is roughly equivalent to the proportion of Americans that are non-American.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/30 00:12:04
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/08/30 00:22:08
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Amaya wrote:Please tell me all about the diversity in Canada.
Sure. But first, I'd really appreciate you explaining to me exactly how race factors into things here. I am honestly confused by this. Then, I need to you explain to me exactly which policies you're referring to, that you don't believe will work in a multicultural nation. And finally, after that, I want you to phone up your high school social studies teacher, and tell him/her that s/he failed you.
Anyway, here you go:
Visible minorities in Canada: about 16% of the total population, but estimated to be closer to 18% due to the likelihood of minorities being less likely to participate in federal census reporting.
Religions in Canada: Christian = about 75% Other = about 7.5% No affiliation = about 17.5%
Languages in Canada: Well, we have two official languages for a reason.
Canada's attitude towards diversity: unfortunately, the federal government endorses a "mosaic" approach to multiculturalism. I personally think a "melting pot" mentality is far superior, as it doesn't lead to segregation and ghettoization like the "mosaic" approach. However, both are preferable alternatives to the assimilation approach that the US endorses, as the former two do not facilitate a culture of fear and "othering".
EDIT: And if you want to add in proper, non-race-based diversity, then you are in for a shock on this one... Canada is arguably the most diverse country on the planet, and our immigration rate far exceeds our bith rate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/30 00:29:51
2012/08/30 00:28:27
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/08/30 02:53:47
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Amaya wrote:Racial groups typically tend to have many ethnic groups within them, correct?
I'm not willing to answer that question due to the sweeping generalizations it would require me to make.
The simple answer is yes. It's not a sweeping generalization to say every race has more than one ethnic group. It's a universally true statement.
I have literally no idea what led up to that moment, but your refusal to answer is silly.
Hrm. Think I misread it. Moving on, then:
Yes. Biologically there are three primary racial groups: Caucasoid, Mongoloid & Negroid. They break down into multiple ethnic subgroups, and those ethnic subgroups break down yet further into cultural subgroups; and there is lateral overlap. Yes, the US is a diverse place. The same can be said for Canada. After all, Canada is a larger country, and therefore it is only reasonable to recognize that two people from the same racial group, divided by a large geographic expanse, would represent cultural diversity. I will maintain that a cowboy from Texas and a cab driver from New York will be just as diverse from one another as will a cowboy from Alberta and a jackass from Quebec (see what I did there?). I've never once claimed that the US is not a diverse nation, but I will not passively allow you to claim that somehow the US is more diverse than Canada.
Setting all that aside, I'm still waiting to hear you list some of these yet-unnamed policies that simply don't work in the US due to its diversity, yet manage to in Canada (which you erroneously believe to be homogenous, prompting my comment that you should track down your social studies teacher and tell him/her of that failure).
EDIT: spelling
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/30 04:12:30
2012/08/30 05:00:35
Subject: Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Its not at all like your pretending that different Europeans didn't migrate to various parts of America and leave a cultural imprint on that area to this day.
In some respects Americans are substantially more culturally homogenous, in that we share a hugely overlapping percentage of our culture, government systems (including on the local level, with a few exceptions like the parishes in LA), popular culture and history with one another. If a Welshman moves to France, he has to learn a whole lot more to adapt and get a job than I would if I were to move to Chicago, or even Texas.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/30 05:01:37
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That depends on how you define Europe.k Since Europe and Asia are connected by land, many people have di8fferent definitinos of where one ends and the other begins.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/08/30 11:31:29
Subject: Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Well, okay, in surface area they're quite close. Going with the wiki numbers, Europe 3.9mm square miles, US 3.8mm. Though what, close to 20% of that is Alaska, and it's not like Alaska is in the middle of the country, so realistically it's not much of a factor in this discussion.
Population wise Europe is more than twice as big, at 739mm to the US 314 million.
It's still going to be a lot easier for me to adapt culturally to life in Florida, Ohio, or Utah than it is for a Greek to live in Sweden, or vice versa. Realistically speaking, if we're talking about ethnic/cultural sub-groups within European countries, they're much more likely to have significant differences from the larger population than they do in the US. Because a person of Irish or German or Kenyan ethnic identity living in France or Greece or Italy is much more likely to have actually come from another country and grown up with a different language and system of laws and government. In the US, being Japanese or Irish or French or Swedish or Mexican in background usually means your grandparents or further back immigrated. You're more likely to have grown up in the American culture.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/30 11:37:26
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dogma wrote: I'm asking a simple question, "Are you attempting to reduce diversity to race?", that is directly pertinent to what you stated. That isn't misdirection, its asking for clarification.
Regardless, I'll go ahead and assume that you are. To begin, race is not the same as ethnicity even though that's how people in the US tend to see it. As such, counting up all the Hispanic and Black people living in the US isn't going to give you a good picture of US diversity
Welcome to New Hampshire! Did you know we're one of the most diverse states in the Union? We're 30% Franco-American!
2012/08/30 16:12:49
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Amaya wrote: Why do these small homogeneous nations keep insisting that their policies would work in the US?
Did you post in the wrong thread? What on earth does this have to do with the topic at hand?
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2012/08/30 17:04:33
Subject: Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Mannahnin wrote: Well, okay, in surface area they're quite close. Going with the wiki numbers, Europe 3.9mm square miles, US 3.8mm. Though what, close to 20% of that is Alaska, and it's not like Alaska is in the middle of the country, so realistically it's not much of a factor in this discussion.
Population wise Europe is more than twice as big, at 739mm to the US 314 million.
It's still going to be a lot easier for me to adapt culturally to life in Florida, Ohio, or Utah than it is for a Greek to live in Sweden, or vice versa. Realistically speaking, if we're talking about ethnic/cultural sub-groups within European countries, they're much more likely to have significant differences from the larger population than they do in the US. Because a person of Irish or German or Kenyan ethnic identity living in France or Greece or Italy is much more likely to have actually come from another country and grown up with a different language and system of laws and government. In the US, being Japanese or Irish or French or Swedish or Mexican in background usually means your grandparents or further back immigrated. You're more likely to have grown up in the American culture.
Europe as a whole is more heterogeneous than the US. The US is more heterogenous than individual European nations.
No large nation has universal health care coverage. Claiming that policies that work in a nation with 50 million people would work in a nation six times that size and spread across a land mass the size of a continent is asinine.
The US right now is spending more on health care in all regards than any other nation. There isn't enough revenue to justify spending more.
Amaya wrote: Claiming that policies that work in a nation with 50 million people would work in a nation six times that size and spread across a land mass the size of a continent is asinine.
The US right now is spending more on health care in all regards than any other nation. There isn't enough revenue to justify spending more.
The thing is though, and this is wildly off topic but you started it with your crazy out of place post, is that the NHS spends half of what the US healthcare system does per patient and yet has at least as good a standard of care. This suggests to me that there is a lot of inefficiency/profiteering in the US system. Ironic really given that private companies are supposed to be so much more efficient than public services.
The size of the country doesn't really matter, everyone pays tax after all.
Europe as a whole is more heterogeneous than the US. The US is more heterogenous than individual European nations.
The UK for example has 4 different nations, all with their own language (and there are also half a dozen or more regional languages/very strong dialects), 3 of which have some kind of devolved parliment and with the exception of Northern Ireland were all sovereign nations at some point. In addition all 4 have centuries of national history, the Kingdom of Scotland for example was founded 1200 year ago(ish). On top of this approximately 10% of the UK population are immigrants. Europe as a whole is massively more diverse than the US.
Yeah the US is clearly more diverse than individual European nations. It is more heterogenous than some nations, Ireland for example, but your broad generalisation doesn't stick.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/08/30 17:52:46
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2012/08/30 17:53:24
Subject: Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
AustonT wrote:I miss Bill too, am genuinely surprised he did that ad for Obama.
Just remember that he's the guy responsible for repealing the greatest safeguard against the current economic crisis.
You can't win them all. He has defended signif the GLBA into law by saying it softened the financial crisis. To be fair it's not like he championed the bill and rammed it through the houses, it was the GOP doing all the pushing. Then it passed both houses overwhelmingly. To veto it would have simply meant it went back and got passed without him and he would have looked weak. You can't really lay blame on Slick Willy for that one.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/08/30 17:54:16
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
I'm sorry I got to the part where "everyone pays tax" and started laughing. Once I regained control I got to the blah blah about Europe which indicated you didn't read or comprehend my post.
"Europe as a whole is massively more diverse than the US.". Hmm...pretty sure I already said that. Meanwhile lets pretend the UK is as diverse as the United States.
Amaya wrote: I'm sorry I got to the part where "everyone pays tax" and started laughing. Once I regained control I got to the blah blah about Europe which indicated you didn't read or comprehend my post.
Oh really? Well that was a constructive and incisive post on your part. Incidentally why are you ranting about universal healthcare in a thread about pornography?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/30 18:00:21
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2012/08/30 18:01:17
Subject: Re:Religious Minority Want a Theocracy to Force Morality on Citizens
Amaya wrote: I like how in America's case whites get lumped into one big group while in the case of European nations, Irish, Welsh, Polish, and so on all get to be defined as their own ethnic groups.
Probably because most of those Irish, Welsh, and Polish people are actually from Ireland, Whales, and Poland as opposed to being several generations removed from Irish, Welsh, and Polish immigrants.
Part of the problem with comparing the US and Europe in terms of diversity is that the way people in US view ethnicity is very different from the way its viewed in Europe. Europeans don't talk about being "Polish" if their family has been in Germany for 3 generations and they don't speak Polish, whereas in the US its quite common for people to claim that they're Polish because they once ate pirogi and have a Polish last name. As an example, I'm of Polish descent, but I'm not Polish. I have nothing at all in common with Polish people outside of having a Polish last name, and having eaten Polish food, and I'm only two (Well, 2.5, grandfather was born in Poland but grew up here.) generations removed.
This is made all the worse by the way the US generally studies its demographics, which based primarily on race (ethnic minorities), as opposed to actual ethnicity.
Its not at all like your pretending that different Europeans didn't migrate to various parts of America and leave a cultural imprint on that area to this day.
No more than generations of German and Spanish immigration left an imprint on France, but we still call the vast majority of those people "French".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/30 18:05:14
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
