Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well I think, in 6th ed. Tanks are much much weaker. Due to hull points. Now tanks can die much much easier due to the fact that if it is penetrated, it loses a hull point. Even glancings do!
On the up side, it makes some tanks much better such as the LR Exterminator. Its auto cannons are twin-linked so you likely to hit about 3/4 of it shots. And if you aiming at something standard with AV12, that will easily penetrate 1 or 2. Although this is drifting off i just want to suggest taking pask with it. SInce it adds 1 to armour penetration, It is now a heavy four twin-linked strength 8 autocannon. And if you fit Multi meltas and a lascannon that can kill a tank for sure!


Sorry if this has already been mentioned

Tanks didn't get weaker, they just became more predictable. Yes, you can glance vehicles to death, but glancing no longer means anything anymore (you can't stunlock, for example), and vehicles got much easier to take cover saves for (amongst other improvements). If you really think mech got so bad, try playing foot horde for a change. It probably won't take you long before you go running for your bawkses again.

As for the exterminator, yeah, lots of people (including myself) have been talking them up since 6th ed. Pask still makes it pretty expensive, though.

Pic unrelated.

I'm not convinced of taking an Exterminator over a Battle Cannon. I figure I can field way more than enough autocannons on the rest of my army, but where am I going to get S8 AP3 to ID those marines?

That said, I do believe vehicles got weaker, if only slightly. Chimeras won't protect your vets as well as they used to, that's for sure, and often they'll just blow up and kill half of the troops they're transporting. On the other hand, like Ailaros said, glances mean nothing (yay!).

Vehicles definitely got faster in 6th- glances dont slow them down, they can flat-out, meaning its easier for more armies to rush across the board. The flip side is you cant quickly assault out of vehicles anymore.

However, I like the changes because it gives vehicles a more "blitzkreig" feel to them, allowing you to be very agressive and put pressure on your opponent.

Yes I do agree with you, I think,although vehicles die quicker, they are less crippled when they are alive. As now,im not sure if this was always a rule but you roll dice to see what weapon is , and there is no wrecked!!!!

How tough tanks are is actually the wrong question. It should be said that AV value dictates how productive tanks are in 6th ed.

For example:

AV 10 became much weaker. A squad of tactical marines can rapid fire a AV10 hull down in a single volley.

AV 11 becomes immune to bolters, but is still threatened by many weapons. Still pretty weak

AV12 really begins to ramp up the toughness of a tank. Immune to anything STR 5 and lower, and the number of shots from STR 6 weapons drops of significantly. Glances when they happen will not hinder firing or movement. This armor value can also be spammed by certian armies. (Marines, Guard, etc..)

AV13 is really a break point. You now need specialized weapons to accomplish the task. Hull points become an asset as it will be hard to shut down the porductivity of the tank until you destroy it.

AV14 is King. Need STR 9 weapons to even think about a glance. Hull points make it really difficult to slow this tank down and you will get at least a couple turns of solid production before it is destroyed. Armies will need to take specialized units to take it out.

Like Ailaros said hull points make tanks more predicitable, but high AV value ones will actually become better due to hull points, and the changing of the damage table (High AP weapons are not as effective).

And then Lance ruined everything you said about AV 13+.

 Shadelkan wrote:
And then Lance ruined everything you said about AV 13+.

True only problem is if your taking lances, then your prolly playing a gimped army anyways.

If anything I like my tanks more this edition. My leman russes actually get to shoot for more than 1 turn before they proceed to get stunlocked all game. Weapon destroyed is randomized, and hull points make it much easier to kill enemy vehicles. Hullpoints have rearely mattered to me unless I'm playing necrons, and even there it doesnt bother russes too badly, as the warriors literally have to stand right next to it in rapid fire range to do anything.

As for the exterminator, it's good, but I only take 1 at any time. They're excellent monstrous creature hunters if you put a lascannon and bolter sponsons on them, they eat through transports like it's going out of style, and they can guarantee a hit or two on flyers in an emergency. If you take an armoured battlegroup, a commissar exterminator with ace gunner is just scary. All weapons get +1 on the pen chart for enemy vehicles, even if you move, allowing it to have a S10 lascannon, 4 bs4 twinlinked S8 shots, and 6 S6 heavy bolter shots, meaning almost anything you point it at will feel a heck of a lot of pain.

I disagree MrMoustaffa. My Leman Russes never get stunlocked. Try putting extra armour on,so at least it can still shoot, or if you have spare points, camo netting.

They USED to get stunlocked. Now they dont' need to worry about that anymore.

EA is now kind of a waste. If you're getting stunned, that means you're taking a lot of penetrating hits, and if you're taking a lot of penetrating hits, the russ isn't long for this world anyways.

 Crazy_Kow wrote:
I disagree MrMoustaffa. My Leman Russes never get stunlocked. Try putting extra armour on,so at least it can still shoot, or if you have spare points, camo netting.

They USED to get stunlocked like crazy in 5th, and since all I cared about was shooting, I never bought extra armor for them (whoop de doo I get to move my tank) Also, extra armor never let it keep shooting, it only let you keep MOVING. The first result kept you from firing, the second kept you from firing OR MOVING. Extra armor downgraded that result so you could always keep moving no matter what. It's why valkyries and vendettas have that upgrade in the first place.

Now I can't be stunned unless I get penned, and since very few armies can spam enough high strength shots to shut down all my tanks in a single turn, I really don't worry about it anymore. They usually die before they're ever stunlocked anyways.

Extra armor is probably the most useless upgrade a person could buy for their tanks now. It only affects one result on a table that only gets rolled on the result of a pen. For a battlewagon or a rhino it might be good, as they have to keep moving, but most times they'll be dead by the time they really need that upgrade anyways.

Glocknall wrote:

AV 10 became much weaker. A squad of tactical marines can rapid fire a AV10 hull down in a single volley.

A hullpoint doesn't mean squat. My trukks have 3 and I have 4 trukks.

And besides who fields more than 10 tacticals per army? If they are lucky they get a turn of shooting and then they are dead.

Vehicles aren't really weaker persay, it's a tradeoff.

They are less resilient, with 4HP being roughly 2/3rds as tough, 3HP being half as tought and 2HP being roughly 1/3rd as hard to kill now.

The payoff being that generally, while alive, they are more effective than they were previously.
Sixth is more about heros and game experience it seems, with games being a lot closer and coming down to often epic firefights and combats, rather than masses of metal boxes. They have their place and AV12 / 13 / 14 is still damn hard, but the focus has subtley shifted.

Glocknall wrote:

 Shadelkan wrote:
And then Lance ruined everything you said about AV 13+.

True only problem is if your taking lances, then your prolly playing a gimped army anyways.

Eldar are a little hard up at the moment, though they're still doing OK, with a little boost over 5th, and a decent boost with DE or Tau allies.
Shooty Dark Eldar are as good as ever really, Raider Spam will happily rapeface, though Venom Spam is a little less resilient.
Assaulty Dark Eldar took a little bit of a hit, traditional Webway Portal Armies were crippled.
Mostly, things have been slightly repurposed or refocused, it's not really worse just moved sideways.

I agree with Ailaros. Tanks did become more predictable.

In 6th I have yet to have a Leman Russ really be damaged by a penetrating hit. So far, they have either been killed outright in close combat, or completely unharmed at the end of the battle, much to the regret of my opponent.