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 whembly wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
There are certainly better ways of phrasing that sentiment. Had it been me and I held similar views, I would have gone with, "Rape can lead to conception." The way he phrased it could very easily, and not incorrectly, be read as a statement akin to, "Conceiving via rape is fine."

True... he could've said it better.

But, dontcha know? It's "GOTCHA POLITICS" season now!

I'm always annoyed with partisans brushing off idiocy from their chosen ones with the, "oh, it's just a gotcha question," rationale. Personally, I want to elect someone who has the mental capacity to do more than the verbal equivalent of standing there frozen and staring at the oncoming headlights. If he or she can't get out of the way of a 'gotcha' question, maybe he or she needs to rethink his or her policies and hold off on seeking public office for a few years.

Edit: the spelin

 whembly wrote:

Knew I'd ruffle some feathers...

heh...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amaya wrote:
Is it referring to liberals as socialists and communists or to actual political parties?

I think that's get thrown around alot.

Classical Liberal is fine (as in JFK).

When you hear "liberals" in verbatim thrown around, I think they're trying to throw them in with left leaners (those are the socalist/communists).

Classic Liberals like Ike, JFK, Nixon, and Reagan? Yeah those guys were good liberals, not evil liberals like people you disagree with.

Ugh, I really hate doing this.

1. Universal healthcare
Not universal. Not even healthcare. Medicare for all would be universal healthcare, the ACA is not that. It's a mainstream solution with many components that poll very well.

3. Justice system has become a political tool (weighing in & commenting on the Trayvon Martin case, which obviously influenced many blacks against Zimmerman)
What? Are you going to also talk about the New Black Panther Party? And, yeah, obviously African Americans only became angry about Zimmerman after the DoJ came out about it.

4. Ended the war on terror. “There is no terror, only legitimate Jihad.” WTH?
Wait, what?

6. Labor unions are a full partner in his Presidency.
Yep, labor unions are democracy in action. Why do you hate democracy?

7. Sueing the state of Arizona over illegal immigration, instead of enforcing existing federal laws.
Yeah, because the 14th Amendment only extends to white folk.

9. Oil moratoriums. He has shut down the largest oil refinery on the east coast. Gasoline has doubled in price since Bush left.
Stop lying. Gasoline was so cheap at the end of the Bush Administration because people were terrified that the world was going to end the economy was so bad. Prices are in line with long term trends.

10. Shut down the coal industry. On record as saying he would make it unprofitable and punishing to open a mine.
This statement is totally inaccurate and it is why Greenland is lush with ice and glaciers right now!

11. Advanced two ultra liberal judges to the Supreme Court.
And?

12. Demonized millionaire entrepreneurs and Wall Street.
He's not demonizing entrepreneurs. He's demonizing those that profit by raiding pension funds and other tactics that result in harm done to people. You'd think Eugene Debs was president.

13. Co-opted banks & auto industry. Not fully nationalized just yet.
So, saving the American auto industry and then selling it back was "co-opting"? Are you really blaming him for saving millions of jobs? And, yeah, breaking up the big banks polls very well but he has not done that.

14. Credit protection agency answers to no one but the the Fed. Outside the Constitution.
lol

15. US Military has been reduced in size...
Yep, we can only conquer the world 4 times instead of 5 times over, now.

16. Changing foreign constitutions by withholding State Department money if they don’t modify their constitution to approve abortions.
lol

17. Co-opted the media
Wait, what? Is this about NPR or something? What are you even going on about?

18. Demonizes anyone with an opinion different from his.
No. I would like him a lot more if he talked to you boot licking petty fascists in a more forceful manner.

19. Appointed Socialists & Communists revolutionaries to high positions.
I know of no one that attends any of our meetings that has been given a high position. Or are you talking about Van Jones?

20. Gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Socialist-Communist Delores Huerta.
Yes, because unions are evil communists attempts to overthrow the nation. And Cesar Chavez is obviously a pariah. Do you even want any Latinos to ever vote for a Republican?

22. Operations such as Libya, were European-led, not US.
And?

23. Gotten rid of the Missile Shield at the expense of Poland.
I'm very sad that Poland is now a big crater after being conquered by Iran.

25. DOJ stopped prosecution of illegal voting in Florida.
Lies.

26. Has been on a non-stop “apologize for America” tour.
Stupid lies.

27. Made sure ACORN was a federal budget item.
What's wrong with ACORN? Or should we not have "urban people" register to vote or have legal advice?

28. Cozied up with Russians, Hugo Chavez, etal. IOW, our enemies.
I look forward to voting for the Putin / Chavez ticket this year.

29. Massive regulations in place, courtesy of Cass Sunstein
lol

30. Supports Occupy Wall Street, a group made up largely of anarchists, Communists and revolutionaries.
As an actual socialist I can promise you that many of the people at the OWS encampments I went to were mostly young people who were idealistic but largely non-ideological, mixed in with a few burnt out 1960s types that go to these events, and lots of homeless people looking for a safe place to sleep and a meal.

31. EPA can now regulate carbon emissions
Yep, it is almost like it is an administration that's goal is to protect the environment!!!1!!

32. Michelle Obama is trying to tell us what Americans can & cannot eat
That vile woman is trying to encourage kids to eat better so we don't have a country of enormous fat people who get their feet chopped off because of diabetes. She's the fething worst!

33. Oversaw massive expansion of government dependency, with Food Stamp recipients going from 26 million to 48 million under his administration.
It's better those people starve. Who is John Galt?

34. Bloated stimulus plans that did little other than benefit liberal pet projects, and funnel money back to Democrat election funds.
Not true.

35. Student loan system now all governmental.
Yes, because corporations should obviously be allowed to profit by overseeing student loans. You realize the existed system was zero risk for these companies because they were all backed by the federal government? You realize this just makes student loans more efficient and cheaper, right?


----

So, this list is hilarious. Whenever Obama does something to help the economy it's because he's an EVIL SOCIALIST. People complain that the economy is so bad because of Obama and that people can't get a job, but people who are unemployed are dependent on the government for food stamps and that stops them from looking for all those jobs that are out there?

This list is based in lies, paranoia, stupidity, racism, and just ignorance.

Congratulations.

whembly wrote:[notice how I don't disparage you for getting your news from the huffintonpost?]

I don't get my news from Huffington Post. I linked to an article they hosted. Big difference.

And it's really tough to disparage me for soures I cite, as those sources always cite their sources, and so on. And those root sources are always either direct in-context quotes, or else peer-reviewed academic publications.

You, on the other hand, post blogs and clips of sensationalized mouthpieces.



PS: I'm not really familiar with Huffington Post. Exactly what's their deal, aside from being owned by a woman that habitually joins cults?

Two queries for theHammer.

Do you honestly think the US can conquer the world right? If so

Do you honestly think that Michelle Obama's Healthy Eating Campaign is actually healthy?

Maybe not conquer, but certainly destroy it.

I don't know enough about her campaign outside of the "she has a garden and gives vegetables and fruits to DC schools, and thinks that kids should maybe go outside and play", but yeah, those seem like healthy things.

I'm pretty sure Russia, China, and possibly Pakistan, India, and Israel have enough nukes to destroy the world if deployed correctly.

And no, her campaign isn't particularly healthy. She is still extremely ignorant on many subjects and has made some amazingly hilarious comments. I'm still trying to figure out what "“You don’t have to be a weightlifter,” she says. “I know a lot of women get worried about muscle definition. But actually, I’ve been told by fitness experts that the average person will not bulk up on the weights that we can lift.”" is supposed to mean exactly.

She eats tofu (bleh), oatmeal (not terrible, but not healthy), protein shakes (get it from meat, why won't people at least eat chicken or tuna FFS?), veggie pizza (instead of pizza with some form of protein on it, wth?), potatoes (good for gaining weight or keeping you alive, not necessary in most diets unless you're poor), and other bad choices. It's basically the typical somewhat vegetarian diet that involves questionable carbs, minimal meat, and minimal protein.

The good thing is that she eats multiple small meals to keep her metabolism up and actually advocates brown rice as a healthy carb. Those are both good suggestions. Eating healthy enough for the average person is simple, don't drink soda, avoid high fructose corn syrup, avoid simple sugars, eat lean meats, eat some fruits (not a lot), lots of vegetables, and keep alcohol to a minimum. It is not some big complex conundrum that people can't solve.

Okay @daedalus-templarius, I deserved that double-facepalm.

That was weak-sauce and lazy on my part...

@Azazel... eh, Huffington post is like any other blogger, they use baiting topics to get the "clicks". That's true with any site out there. If I remember... Arianna worked for Conservative politician (not sure who), then started supporting typically (D) issues. This site us usually touted is a "liberal mouthpiece"... but, I'm not so sure that's true. (yes, I read that site too).

Back to the OP: I agree with Seaward... he could've phrased it better. But, its NOT the same as Atkins, which was deplorable.

If you wanna ding Ryan because of his Abortion stance, you're free to... I understand. At least he's consistent. Also, realize he's could be the VP... which he can't do much on this issue unless there's a deadlock in the Senate. Furthermore, I don't believe congress will EVER have the political will to pass another law on this until it's struck down by the SC (if ever).

I'll jump in with my take, even though this was a "sloppy" effort for the perceived issues the some folks had with the Obama administration...

TheHammer wrote:
Ugh, I really hate doing this.

1. Universal healthcare
Not universal. Not even healthcare. Medicare for all would be universal healthcare, the ACA is not that. It's a mainstream solution with many components that poll very well.

??? There's a mandate that says you must purchase insurance (private or public exchange)... that's Universal to me.

From a tangental point of view... I see where you're coming from. If we really want Universal Healthcare, we'd should be going to a single-payor system ala Canada. Not this frankenstein...

3. Justice system has become a political tool (weighing in & commenting on the Trayvon Martin case, which obviously influenced many blacks against Zimmerman)
What? Are you going to also talk about the New Black Panther Party? And, yeah, obviously African Americans only became angry about Zimmerman after the DoJ came out about it.

In my mind, Obama made the situation worse when he said "Tryavon could be my son"... without knowing the full fact. That's my issue.... 'cuz at this point, Zimmerman is guilty before having his say in court.

4. Ended the war on terror. “There is no terror, only legitimate Jihad.” WTH?
Wait, what?

Yeah... not sure what this is... but, there were reports on the ground that the officers thought they were withdrawing too fast, too soon. It appeared that Obama was pushing this for political gains... not strategic gains. That's my perception.

6. Labor unions are a full partner in his Presidency.
Yep, labor unions are democracy in action. Why do you hate democracy?

Its subversive to democracy. OR, at best, puts tax-payers at negotiating disadvantage.

Case in point:
1) Elected a former SIUE president to head the board labor in the administrations. Obvious conflict of interest.
2) The Delphi non-union workers lost portion of their pension, while the GM union workers did not (administration picked winners/losers here). This has been taken to court.
3) This administration (and some Ds) what to get rid of anonymous votes to unionize.

7. Sueing the state of Arizona over illegal immigration, instead of enforcing existing federal laws.
Yeah, because the 14th Amendment only extends to white folk.

Wait, what? Arizona what's to enforce immigration, essentially the same laws that the Feds has...

9. Oil moratoriums. He has shut down the largest oil refinery on the east coast. Gasoline has doubled in price since Bush left.
Stop lying. Gasoline was so cheap at the end of the Bush Administration because people were terrified that the world was going to end the economy was so bad. Prices are in line with long term trends.

Not sure I follow... remember the BP spill in the Gulf? His administration took that event and imposed the moratoriams. And where do you get the idea that "prices are in line with long term trend?"... if true, so what. It can be cheaper.

10. Shut down the coal industry. On record as saying he would make it unprofitable and punishing to open a mine.
This statement is totally inaccurate and it is why Greenland is lush with ice and glaciers right now!

Tell that to West Virigina... it's very hard to operate coal industries now.

11. Advanced two ultra liberal judges to the Supreme Court.
And?

SC Justices are there to uphold the Constitution... NOT make new laws from "prenumbra and embras" and such. We don't need judges that feels a need to "look at other countries' laws" to determine if it's legal in the US.

12. Demonized millionaire entrepreneurs and Wall Street.
He's not demonizing entrepreneurs. He's demonizing those that profit by raiding pension funds and other tactics that result in harm done to people. You'd think Eugene Debs was president.

"you didn't build that"

13. Co-opted banks & auto industry. Not fully nationalized just yet.
So, saving the American auto industry and then selling it back was "co-opting"? Are you really blaming him for saving millions of jobs? And, yeah, breaking up the big banks polls very well but he has not done that.

You do realize that taxpayers will lose Billions of dollars once they offload the GM shares, dontcha? Check the CBO for that.

GM and those distressed Banks ought to have went thru a proper Bankruptcy process.

And let me say this with feelings: It's NOT the President's job to "SAVE" jobs. Because, in doing so, he's picking losers and winners (see GM vs Delphi and Solyndra).

14. Credit protection agency answers to no one but the the Fed. Outside the Constitution.
lol

One of the good thing about this is that it forces creditors to ensure that any rate/fee changes are communicated in advance. /tinfoil on: This board has power to change how credit is operated... it's a dangerous board. /tinfoil off.

15. US Military has been reduced in size...
Yep, we can only conquer the world 4 times instead of 5 times over, now.

16. Changing foreign constitutions by withholding State Department money if they don’t modify their constitution to approve abortions.
lol

Okay... tried to find something on this, but I'm not seeing it.

17. Co-opted the media
Wait, what? Is this about NPR or something? What are you even going on about?

Old-school media are generally in the tank for Democrats... if you don't see this bias, take your blinders fold off.

Having said that, they have been harder on Obama lately that was refreshing. Gotta give 'em props for that.

18. Demonizes anyone with an opinion different from his.
No. I would like him a lot more if he talked to you boot licking petty fascists in a more forceful manner.

19. Appointed Socialists & Communists revolutionaries to high positions.
I know of no one that attends any of our meetings that has been given a high position. Or are you talking about Van Jones?

Van Jones is a commie... but, yeah, the other appointees are "socialist". But, not sure why those who wrote #19 is surprised.

20. Gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Socialist-Communist Delores Huerta.
Yes, because unions are evil communists attempts to overthrow the nation. And Cesar Chavez is obviously a pariah. Do you even want any Latinos to ever vote for a Republican?

So, all latinos are like Huerta?

22. Operations such as Libya, were European-led, not US.
And?

Are we the world's police or not?

23. Gotten rid of the Missile Shield at the expense of Poland.
I'm very sad that Poland is now a big crater after being conquered by Iran.

It's a diplomatic snafu.

25. DOJ stopped prosecution of illegal voting in Florida.
Lies.

Really... huh... so, there's no illegals in Florida? Is that what you're saying?

26. Has been on a non-stop “apologize for America” tour.
Stupid lies.

This did bug me. He's the President... he needs to be the big bad mofo that this office deserves. Just saying Haters gonna hate...

27. Made sure ACORN was a federal budget item.
What's wrong with ACORN? Or should we not have "urban people" register to vote or have legal advice?

Guess you missed the voter fraud, mortgage counseling racketeering...

But, I think this is a case where a minority are breaking the law and the majority are doing good work.

28. Cozied up with Russians, Hugo Chavez, etal. IOW, our enemies.
I look forward to voting for the Putin / Chavez ticket this year.

Right... he's really chummy with them, but cold to our traditional allies...

29. Massive regulations in place, courtesy of Cass Sunstein
lol

More like...

30. Supports Occupy Wall Street, a group made up largely of anarchists, Communists and revolutionaries.
As an actual socialist I can promise you that many of the people at the OWS encampments I went to were mostly young people who were idealistic but largely non-ideological, mixed in with a few burnt out 1960s types that go to these events, and lots of homeless people looking for a safe place to sleep and a meal.

Right... DOWN WITH THE MAN!

31. EPA can now regulate carbon emissions
Yep, it is almost like it is an administration that's goal is to protect the environment!!!1!!

You have no idea the consequence of this do you? By the way, I think the court has temporarily stopped them on this...

32. Michelle Obama is trying to tell us what Americans can & cannot eat
That vile woman is trying to encourage kids to eat better so we don't have a country of enormous fat people who get their feet chopped off because of diabetes. She's the fething worst!

It's a perception thing... but, I have no issue with the First Lady.

33. Oversaw massive expansion of government dependency, with Food Stamp recipients going from 26 million to 48 million under his administration.
It's better those people starve. Who is John Galt?

His economic policies (or lack thereof) put them on the dole...

34. Bloated stimulus plans that did little other than benefit liberal pet projects, and funnel money back to Democrat election funds.
Not true.

Very true... in fact, both parties are guilty of this. Anytime a gak-ton of money like this is distributed, some of it goes to pet project and favored donors.

Besides... the stimulus was POOR excuse to "fix" the economy... the result shows.

35. Student loan system now all governmental.
Yes, because corporations should obviously be allowed to profit by overseeing student loans. You realize the existed system was zero risk for these companies because they were all backed by the federal government? You realize this just makes student loans more efficient and cheaper, right?

You do realize that now TAX PAYERS fund this. While this wasn't necessarily a bad thing, I wasn't aware that the private ones were bad? In fact, my loans are privately held and cheaper than the current federal loans. Whodoyathunk that?

It was cheap when it was private BECAUSE they were non-dischargable loans. Which means, even if you filed for bankruptcy, you cannot get rid of your school loans


----

So, this list is hilarious. Whenever Obama does something to help the economy it's because he's an EVIL SOCIALIST. People complain that the economy is so bad because of Obama and that people can't get a job, but people who are unemployed are dependent on the government for food stamps and that stops them from looking for all those jobs that are out there?

Disagree... he's not evil... just misguided.

This list is based in lies, paranoia, stupidity, racism, and just ignorance.

Maybe.

Congratulations.

THANKS!

Can you still honestly claim that "you didn't build that" meant that he said what you wanted him to say and that businesses are build without any government support or without utilizing a single thing that is taxpayer funded?

 d-usa wrote:
Can you still honestly claim that "you didn't build that" meant that he said what you wanted him to say and that businesses are build without any government support or without utilizing a single thing that is taxpayer funded?

Perception... and his history is in play.

Yes, it takes a collective to succeed in that shared infrastructures is used.

But, are you really going to say that the folks that put in their blood, sweat and tears into their business, working insane hours... that they're not going to take umbrage to that "you didn't build that" statement.

And for what it's worth... that whole speech just rubbed me wrong.

Maybe I'm just... different.

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Can you still honestly claim that "you didn't build that" meant that he said what you wanted him to say and that businesses are build without any government support or without utilizing a single thing that is taxpayer funded?

Perception... and his history is in play.

Yes, it takes a collective to succeed in that shared infrastructures is used.

But, are you really going to say that the folks that put in their blood, sweat and tears into their business, working insane hours... that they're not going to take umbrage to that "you didn't build that" statement.

And for what it's worth... that whole speech just rubbed me wrong.

Maybe I'm just... different.

Here is the entire quote. I am going to highlight the things showcase the point that he made about shared infrastructure and working together in green, and the quote that you focus on in red:

Obama, July 13: There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.e not on your own, we’re in this together.

I get it, you don't like him. Lot's of people don't like him. But that doesn't mean that half the crap that is said about him is true.

Saying somebody else made that happen is a flat out lie and an ignorant statement. People may have helped, but people help all sorts of people who don't open up businesses. Unless you inherited it from someone, if you are business owner you had to bust your ass to get it started.

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Can you still honestly claim that "you didn't build that" meant that he said what you wanted him to say and that businesses are build without any government support or without utilizing a single thing that is taxpayer funded?

Perception... and his history is in play.

Yes, it takes a collective to succeed in that shared infrastructures is used.

But, are you really going to say that the folks that put in their blood, sweat and tears into their business, working insane hours... that they're not going to take umbrage to that "you didn't build that" statement.

And for what it's worth... that whole speech just rubbed me wrong.

Maybe I'm just... different.

I can't believe I am saying this.
BUT GET BACK ON TOPIC!

This is about Paul Ryan's STUPID comments. Not your political hate list. Take it to another thread not here!

 Amaya wrote:
Saying somebody else made that happen is a flat out lie and an ignorant statement. People may have helped, but people help all sorts of people who don't open up businesses. Unless you inherited it from someone, if you are business owner you had to bust your ass to get it started.

Err no, Obamas right, and you didn't read it right, at all. Yes but as a business owner you usually get help from others to get a business started, starting a business takes a long time and alot of help from other people. You cannot start a business by yourself. You need support.

1) So you agree that it isn't universal healthcare, but argue that it is? Look, I don't like that the ACA further empowers for-profit health insurance, but there are lots of parts of it that are popular. It's still not "universal healthcare".

3) And? He is getting his say in court. But, yeah, what's wrong with President Obama saying that this whole affair hit him closer because a vigilante harassed a kid for being black, which then lead to his death?

4) He ran on getting out of Iraq, and he ran on using intelligence and drone strikes more aggressively. I don't care what it "appears", but President Obama has not been withdrawing anything on the "War on Terror" since he escalated matters in Afghanistan, has taken a stronger role in Pakistan, is more active in Yemen, and has otherwise executed this war on a bigger stage. Even when he does what the right wants he can't win.

6) Oh no! A union leader was put in a position dealing with labor and it might be a conflict of interest! There is no clear conflict of interest, just a person with a clear and expressed perspective put into a position where he can exercise that perspective. Do you even know what a conflict of interest is? Stop pretending that the right's attacks on unions are anything more than their attempt to destroy worker's power and to harm an important part of the Democratic base.

7) Yes, racial profiling is obviously them just wanting to enforce the laws.

8) Were you alive in 2007? Or 2008? You realize that gas was expensive then, too, right? And that the only reason gas was cheap in January 2009 was because of how awful the economy had become. It's dishonest to compare the aberrant price of gas then to the present normal. Don't be dishonest.

10) Even if the attacks on coal were half as real as talked about (they're not), I still don't care. Our reliance on coal is causing much bigger problems.

11) Yes, because the only valid reading of the Constitution is one where the government has no power at all and exists so we can all feel good about voting so Congress and the Government can do, what, exactly? They are upholding the Constitution, as they see it. Go to the YMDC board and see how people can't agree on rules for 40k and maybe you can then understand that there are all sorts of perspectives on how to read the Constitution.

12) Stop being dishonest.

13) Wait, so which is it? Did Obama nationalize the car industry or did they bail them out? And, yeah, I get it: you believe in the perfect free market that will magically just work. Good luck with that, hombre.

15) Yep

17) Eh, media is more biased towards sensationalism and lazy group think. But, yeah, obviously upper class white people in the cities are usually more progressive on social issues, but don't pretend like the media has a strong bias towards any sort of leftist view of economics or race.

19) What other appointees are socialists? I have not seen them at any of our meetings.

20) Huerta is not some extreme person, she helped unionize and empower Latino labor in the United States. But, yeah, when Republicans consistently come down on the side of privileged white men you shouldn't be surprised that everyone else is totally against them.

22) We are not.

23) Eh, is Poland going to reform the Warsaw Pact? Who cares?

25) What illegal voting are you talking about?

26) Only insecure man babies believe America has never done anything wrong. Don't be an insecure man baby. Admitting mistakes and showing respect is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of strength, maturity, and conviction.

27) There was no voter fraud with ACORN. That's a lie. They were accused of voter registration fraud because people would fill out voter registration forms with bogus names (Mickey Mouse, etc) and ACORN was then LEGALLY REQUIRED to submit those voter registration forms, because who are they to say that someone named Mickey Mouse wasn't legitimately trying to register to vote? Stop talking about things you don't know about, and if you do know about it then you are a liar.

28) What allies is he cold towards? And don't say Israel, because feth Netanyahu is just the worst.

30) No, read what I said: these are not largely ideological people. They are disenfranchised young people who want to be part of something, and who realize that the current way of doing things is not working. At none of the OWS sites I've been to have I met anyone that has even read Marx or Lenin or any of those guys.

31) You have an idea of the consequences of not regulating carbon emissions, but you just refuse to believe that science exists. Or, you choose to believe that climate change is a global conspiracy of scientists of hundreds of fields conspiring to screw over coal miners in West Virginia.

32) That's bs. It's not a perception thing. You don't like her for some reason that makes no sense. She's just trying to get kids to take responsibility and eat better, there is literally nothing wrong about that. The only "perception" that could possibly exist is that you don't like her for some really ugly reasons.

33) And? Times are hard. So, Obama should let millions of jobs evaporate with GM's collapse and not let them go onto public assistance and then magically everything works out? How?

34) Serious Question: Where did the vast majority of the money from the stimulus go?

35) Tax payers always funded this. Sallie Mae, or whoever, would give you a student loan. If you then defaulted at that student loan the federal government would then give the money to Sallie Mae. All those loans were guaranteed by the federal government. There was literally no risk for the lenders.

Wait, czars bring up "Soviet Communism connotations"? I'm not asking this to be mean, merely asking to make sure I don't waste anymore time with you, but are you stupid?

Everything else you talked about is your perception, which mostly stems from your WILLFUL DESIRE to hate this guy. Just stop it.

It's a far better, far less controversial statement without the offending section. Honestly, that was dumb. Does it show insight into Obama's philosophy? Possibly. Possibly not. Not owning a business myself, even I'm a little disgruntled with the sentiment the quote seems to convey, even in the context of the paragraph. It goes a tad too far.

Play the video. You have a better perception. Its like when Biden did the "put you all back in chain" comment.

@d-usa: that entire quote in verbatim is insulting to those business owners. If you can't see that, I can't convince you.

I own a business.

I employ people where possible and I am thankful that those people were educated by school systems that I did not build or fund.

I get materials and ship products out to people on roads and through a mail system that I did not build or fund.

I get to use the internet to get new clients and to research solutions for their demands, and I did not invent or build the internet.

I could keep going on, but while I do work very hard I am not delusional enough to think that I went off into the West and extracted wealth and prosperity from the earth by using my hands and nothing else.

And, Amaya, don't be stupid about Michelle Obama's food programs. Sure, I'm sure her personal diet could be better or whatever but children's diets are so DISASTROUSLY BAD that her encouraging them to get any better is a big step in the right direction. It is literally the least offensive thing ever, and for it to become disagreeable says far more about you than anything else.

 whembly wrote:
@d-usa: that entire quote in verbatim is insulting to those business owners. If you can't see that, I can't convince you.

My dad is a business owner and he is not offended. Along with most of his partners, they actually support obama over Romney.
Because they like Obama because of the things he has said.

A step in the right direction would be instituting a tax on all products that contain high fructose corn syrup, stop subsidizing the corn and grain industries, and instead use that money to lower the prices on fresh fruits, vegetables, and lean meat.

 Amaya wrote:
A step in the right direction would be instituting a tax on all products that contain high fructose corn syrup, stop subsidizing the corn and grain industries, and instead use that money to lower the prices on fresh fruits, vegetables, and lean meat.

........
Now look at your statement

You know why fruits, vegetables and lean meats are expensive? Its because of one thing....

The Food Companies control that. Not the US Government.

Are you being willfully obtuse or did you honestly not understand what I posted?

I agree, Amaya. Soft drinks and the like should be taxed pretty heavily to discourage people from drinking them, and to use that money to fund a national healthcare plan.

It's naive that we can tackle healthcare without talking farm subsidies, poverty, and lots of other issues. Only a holistic approach would work.

I just don't expect Michelle Obama to come out to the hard left of President Obama.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 whembly wrote:
@d-usa: that entire quote in verbatim is insulting to those business owners. If you can't see that, I can't convince you.

My dad is a business owner and he is not offended. Along with most of his partners, they actually support obama over Romney.
Because they like Obama because of the things he has said.

Free country... vote for him.

 Amaya wrote:
People.. have helped

 Jihadin wrote:
. You have a better perception

 whembly wrote:
it takes a collective to succeed in that shared infrastructures is used.

Well, I am glad that everybody agrees with me.

It is a free country, and part of that freedom is to be honest and respectful of those freedoms instead of saying lies and then hiding behind them because of "perception" or something.

TheHammer wrote:
It is a free country, and part of that freedom is to be honest and respectful of those freedoms instead of saying lies and then hiding behind them because of "perception" or something.

Right... so anyone's opinions contrary to yours are lies... gotcha.

 whembly wrote:

TheHammer wrote:
It is a free country, and part of that freedom is to be honest and respectful of those freedoms instead of saying lies and then hiding behind them because of "perception" or something.

Right... so anyone's opinions contrary to yours are lies... gotcha.

Err no that is taking it out of context.

He has said that some of your statements have been false so they technically are lies.

 Amaya wrote:
A step in the right direction would be instituting a tax on all products that contain high fructose corn syrup, stop subsidizing the corn and grain industries, and instead use that money to lower the prices on fresh fruits, vegetables, and lean meat.

Guess I missed the part where the First Lady had the power to do that.