Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I haven't really had complaints about it before, even the few times I've asked questions like this. One of the writers for the fluff I'm doing said someone complained about it when he was talking to them about the fluff in general.
[EDIT-08/30/12]
While we're on the subject, this doesn't look too heavy handed or out of place, does it?
Spoiler:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/29 14:35:44
As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.
I haven't really had complaints about it before, even the few times I've asked questions like this. One of the writers for the fluff I'm doing said someone complained about it when he was talking to them about the fluff in general.
Looks like a Soviet Russian star combined with the knights templar symbol.
As long as he does not highlight the knights templar symbol in white he is fine.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
I haven't really had complaints about it before, even the few times I've asked questions like this. One of the writers for the fluff I'm doing said someone complained about it when he was talking to them about the fluff in general.
Looks like a Soviet Russian star combined with the knights templar symbol.
As long as he does not highlight the knights templar symbol in white he is fine.
Because of this?
We actually have a policy against using that symbol. Specifically, it's no straight army iron crosses.
As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Who's got something against the Iron Cross?
Its just a German Medal, and the Maltese Cross itself has been around since the Crusades. How on earth people find it offensive is beyond me. I doubt anyone not familiar with WW2 would even recognise it as a German military medal, they'd be more likely to think of the Crusades.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/29 02:31:25
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
Yeah nothing wrong with the iron cross. Heck, GW even sells bitz with that very symbol on it. If someone has a problem with it, then they shouldn't be playing 40k at all.
Just because the German army used it doesn't mean it's a nazi symbol. Same goes for the plus shaped symbol the Wermancht used, because people seem to get offended over that one for some reason too.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Its just a German Medal, and the Maltese Cross itself has been around since the Crusades. How on earth people find it offensive is beyond me. I doubt anyone not familiar with WW2 would even recognise it as a German military medal, they'd be more likely to think of the Crusades.
He said that the person said it looked like a Communist symbol. That said, it's entirely possible that someone would have an axe to grind against Communism as a symptom of a larger ideology. From what he said, it sounded like multiple people were saying that, but after looking into it, I think it was a private conversation. (Google and the post logs didn't bring anything up)
Personally, as long as people don't think it's too heavy handed or taking real life can't-be-coincidental symbol into the game, I think it's fine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheCaptain wrote: Morally, no. There's nothing wrong with it, per se.
Don't be shocked if it rustles SOMEONE's feathers down the line though. People have gotten upset about dumber things.
LOL, always.
Some of the crazy Harry-Potterphobe fundamentalists might take issue with world based on the USSR, but then again, there are the anti psychic witch hunters, so it would be a hard call for them
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MrMoustaffa wrote: Yeah nothing wrong with the iron cross. Heck, GW even sells bitz with that very symbol on it. If someone has a problem with it, then they shouldn't be playing 40k at all.
Just because the German army used it doesn't mean it's a nazi symbol. Same goes for the plus shaped symbol the Wermancht used, because people seem to get offended over that one for some reason too.
It's not even the issue that whoever it was complained about. I take it that it's not really an issue.
This reminds me of the time that I thought I was being ungodly heavy handed by calling a planet Aschknas, and when I asked, no one knew the origin of the name.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/29 03:32:11
As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.
You're in the USA so I guess you'll be fine. I wouldn't try playing games in certain parts of Europe (i.e. most of it) that have been invaded by the Germans in the past
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Testify wrote: You're in the USA so I guess you'll be fine. I wouldn't try playing games in certain parts of Europe (i.e. most of it) that have been invaded by the Germans in the past
If you read his last post, you'll see that it isn't even the german cross part that we all assumed that was the problem. It was that the other part looked communist.
I guess that puts some sociological things into perspective. We're pretty socialistic in Europe, so even though most of us don't subscribe to communism, we just don't have a problem with it as a general principle in the way that a lot of Americans seem to.
Testify wrote: You're in the USA so I guess you'll be fine. I wouldn't try playing games in certain parts of Europe (i.e. most of it) that have been invaded by the Germans in the past
Well tecnicaly both dirty commies and evil nazis get a somewhat bad reception in Europa as a whole really. But I think nobody would be particulary offended by that thing. Although avoid bringing it to Poleland or some other Easter European country
btw if you would put a white trim around it, it would be the actual symbol of the Bundeswehr and even the aforementioned Balkenkreuz is not that much affiliated to the Nazis as its way older but you should stay away from it anyhow.
Playing mostly Necromunda and Battletech, Malifaux is awesome too!
I haven't really had complaints about it before, even the few times I've asked questions like this. One of the writers for the fluff I'm doing said someone complained about it when he was talking to them about the fluff in general.
Looks like a Soviet Russian star combined with the knights templar symbol.
As long as he does not highlight the knights templar symbol in white he is fine.
But I am with Brother SRM on this, its the design of it that I wouldn't support to use. Looks like a star shining behind a cross and that represents what exactly? A new dawn? then it would a be a sun, not a star....
Secondly, the red star may be less welcome in the east of europe now, but whos to say a white one would be? Think about it.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
The whole idea with an Inquisition is still frowned upon in Spain. Grand Inquisitor Torquemada is like the Spanish version of Hitler.
Weapons, too, are offensive to many. They represent murder, war and death; a notion too close to heart for some that have lived it.
You have to choose yourself where you draw the line. A red star could represent the blood of the universe, protected behind the black cross. (stars being what you see when you look out into space.)
It's not really hard to make up whatever meaning you want.
Testify wrote: You're in the USA so I guess you'll be fine. I wouldn't try playing games in certain parts of Europe (i.e. most of it) that have been invaded by the Germans in the past
If you read his last post, you'll see that it isn't even the german cross part that we all assumed that was the problem. It was that the other part looked communist.
I guess that puts some sociological things into perspective. We're pretty socialistic in Europe, so even though most of us don't subscribe to communism, we just don't have a problem with it as a general principle in the way that a lot of Americans seem to.
I'm not actually sure it was a serious issue either. From what I know, it could have just been one other person. We did have a German Nazi go off once because he said that the whole basis of the fluff was "historical revisionism" and to promote "Communists and Jews." If people have a legitimate point that it seems to obvious or supports Communism, we'll change it. But if occasionally someone with anti Communist Nazi views comes by and objects because they think that people will convert to Communism after seeing grimdark references to the USSR in a game, we're not going to waste time with it.
Someone else once mentioned that the problem with these kinds of themes isn't that it's offensive (at least in western countries) but that it's out of place if you get too heavy handed or use actual symbols.
As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.
Just because the German army used it doesn't mean it's a nazi symbol. Same goes for the plus shaped symbol the Wermancht used, because people seem to get offended over that one for some reason too.
see after guys using that sign kill or force out of homes 1/3 of the population of the country you live in asociations start working against such symbols.
But then again we have a dude with a union jack orc army with grots and slavers and the dude was almost not let in to the US by the customs .
Although avoid bringing it to Poleland or some other Easter European country
yes no problems with nazi symbols in norrwadgeia , I wonder why . Try to at least get the name right .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/29 14:52:32
All the iron cross is, is a medal. bands use it for logo`s all the time and no one is too bothered by that. Its rather silly to be honest people who take offence to something they likely know nothing about. Also with the swastika, yeah the nazi`s used it as they symbol but people rarely know that it is actually a hindu symbol for peace.
I guess my thing is... it is all a matter of how you choose to allow yourself to look at it. Those that take something and twist it into something offensive are just as much the problem as those who go looking for something to be offensive. I say if you like it, use it if it works with the fluff of your army go and have fun with it...
RxGhost wrote:Twilight doesn't have vampires.
If you frolic in the forest and sparkle in the sun you are a FAIRY, not a VAMPIRE.
Mortality is for those who are to afraid to be great!!
2500pts Oruscar Dynasty-The re-awakening has come 1500pts Angels Sanguine
Newly started WoC Army
i have no issue with it - this coming from a guy who played empire...whose handgunners wear grey and all the standards were red with a blue X ( no white in the X )
The German Iron Cross http://www.worldwar2aces.com/iron-cross.htm is a famous symbol and common military award of Nazi Germany. Was used before (at least since 1813) and in variations used afterwards, but most people link it to Nazi Germany. The pseudo-German words in your signature let me think that a connection to Germany in WW1 or WW2 is clearly intended. In combination with the Soviet Star it looks like a glorification of the Hitler-Stalin pact. Some people will be offended, others not. Guess you are not surprised.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/30 22:36:35
This symbol is not alright to use, but not for any ethical reasons. It's a trainwreck from a design perspective. The lines are far too busy and work against each other, not with each other. A big fat black thing on top of a skinny red thing also serves only to obfuscate the whole thing.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
MarsNZ wrote: Nothing wrong with any of the symbols on this page. German army markings =/= Nazi markings. Unless you're talking about the Swastika.
Besides OP symbol looks like communist templars, scary, but not offensive.
WWII ruined many symbols that predate that time period, including the swastika, which has a rich history in most early cultures and is still used in eastern cultures (check out the Wikipedia page). WWII was the only time it was used at an angle on a white circle with a red background so there are specific instances where it is obviously a reference to a specific real world context that should be discouraged.
It is unfortunate that people's lack of historical knowledge means that core symbols, such as the iron cross, are assumed to only reference a specific short lived faction from the early 20th century. Yes, I've seen that questioned before...
I agree with the previous poster that the cross over the star is an eyesore on its own without any cultural context. The double triangle looks sharp though because it is a nice geometric pattern and I think the contrast of the two colors is enough to avoid being confused with the Star of David.
5000 
fficial&biw=1012&bih=593&tbm=isch&tbnid=R2b2fkHybg6f5M:&imgrefurl=http://
Newly started WoC Army 
Desert Hunters of Vior'la 
The Purge 
Grey Knight Teleport Assault Force
