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After a few games I found that, Lootas are a must, flyers are too good not to use, the ADL quad gun is a huge help, and that wagons die very fast and more are needed, the KFF is no longer an auto include in every list.

Total Roster Cost: 1999

HQ
1 Mega-armoured Warboss, 130 pts

Elite:
15 Lootas, 225 pts

Elite:
15 Lootas, 225 pts

Troops:
5 Meganobz, 200 pts
1 Battlewagon, 95 pts Big Shoota x1

Troops:
11 Gretchin, 43 pts
1 Runtherd,

Troops:
18 Boyz, 154 pts
1 Boyz Nob, Bosspole + Power Klaw

Troops:
18 Boyz, 154 pts
1 Boyz Nob, Bosspole + Power Klaw

Troops:
17 Boyz, 148 pts
1 Boyz Nob, + Bosspole + Power Klaw

Fast Attack:
1 Dakkajet, 120 pts TL Supa Shoota x3

Fast Attack:
1 Dakkajet, 120 pts TL Supa Shoota x3

Heavy Support:
1 Battlewagon, 95 pts Big Shoota x1

Heavy Support:
1 Battlewagon, 95 pts Big Shoota x1

Heavy Support:
1 Battlewagon, 95 pts Big Shoota x1

: Aegis Defence Lines 100 pts
1 Gun Emplacement, Quad-gun

Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Elite: 2 (0 - 3)
Troops: 5 (2 - 6)
Fast: 2 (0 - 3)
Heavy: 3 (0 - 3)
Fort: 1 (0 - 1)

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

All BWs need a DEFF ROLLOR.

Normally I would agree with you, but some of the changes in 6th make them not as good as they were in 5th. First off battlewagons are less durable. Now before everyone starts say WTF AV14 I would like to remind everyone that the front of the wagon is very narrow and the sides (AV12) are very long making it hard to only present the AV14 to your opponent. Also, with flyers being able to fly on and off table it's about impossible to block an rear armor shot. I now feel it's very important bring even more wagons to ensure you get models downfield and for the price of 3 rollas I can get another wagon.

Next, with a 6 movement for disembark really makes the rolla less useful. Before I would just ram a rhino with my "Ork melta gun" from 12 inches away, disembark, shoot the unit, then assault. Now if my wagon even makes it that far I will still ram the rhino, not disembark, shot the unit from inside the wagon, and end my turn. The next turn I get hit with melta, with it probably exploding killing about half on my orks, assaulted making me a S4 with 1 less attack giving the marines a good chances of winning the combat.

Lastly, with vehicles being much easier to kill in a PK and disembark only on a 6inch movement the rolla again loses some of its usefulness.

its all about timing the assault tempo with deff rolla battlewagons and if done correctly will give you your return investment on the deff rollas. this is made easier with pre measuring now.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
its all about timing the assault tempo with deff rolla battlewagons and if done correctly will give you your return investment on the deff rollas. this is made easier with pre measuring now.

And what they put on the table turn 1.

i think it is a pretty standard BW Ork list. The only change i would do is split the Lootas up into 3 squads of 10 instead of 2 by 15. I know some will argue that 15 is more resilient but having more targets for your opponent to shoot and having to worry about 4 BWs is going to be tough. Plus your Lootas are able to shoot at an extra target like a flyer that way your dakka jet can worry about... dakkaing?

Plus units of 10 lootas can go to ground, units of 15 cant.

Plus I imagine your going to split up the ADL to give your Lootas cover for sure and the gretchin can man the Quad Gun.

Like Matphat said, you can Go To Ground and get 2+ cover from the ADL and still Snapfire (not that Orks care too much!)

ADL (The Orky one) plus Lootas plus big guns are playing very well for me.
The only problem is when my opponent deploys his whole army on the back of the table.
Huge PITA as he's usually able to get JUST outside Loota and Lobba range.

SCP Yeeman wrote:
Plus I imagine your going to split up the ADL to give your Lootas cover for sure and the gretchin can man the Quad Gun.

Like Matphat said, you can Go To Ground and get 2+ cover from the ADL and still Snapfire (not that Orks care too much!)

I'll have to play around with that!

Any idea how I can fit in some deff rollas?

A: drop your gretchin for 2 deff rollas
B: drop 1 dakka jet to free points up for 4 deff rollas and making your boyz full mobs of 20
C: drop 1 dakka jett to free points up for 4 deff rollas and more lootas so you can split them into 3 mobs so you can acquire more targets while still maintaining enough of them to shoot buckets of dice.

You could also drop two MANz for deff rollaz. Warboss+3 MANz still hit like a truck.

I must agree with many other posters here. At 20pts. the deff rolla should be an auto-include.

I am not dropping any Dakkajets.
I'll have to see where I can save some some points. (and I just got those MANZ )

A lot of good advice which I agree with just a couple of ideas, unfortunately it is going away from a battle wagon rush.

You seem to have a lot of anti-aircraft points, and are unlikely to come up against a very flyer heavy army (unless you know someone who likes painting jets). I would possibly loose some of the lootas to free up points, maybe 10.

Also against a shooty army I would expect them to deploy to make the most of the battle wagons side armour as you rush, if you don't make the most of the battle wagons with a roller you may just as well have trukks. That said I would look to break one of the battle wagons and its troops down into two trucks full to the spikey roll bar with orks; mainly to provide more targets to shoot at, but also they are faster to help block avenues of fire to the sides of the battle wagons - even if it is just for one critical turn.

I would tempted to drop a mega-nob to free up points for the trukks, some rollers and to fill the battle wagons.

Now do you drop down to three mega-nobz and put them in one of the trukks to make a nice target for your enemy to shoot up in the first turn while your rush (now full of rollers) sneaks across the battle field.

Have fun with it.

Ok, I really don't see the need for the ADL. Your lootas are good enough to deal with fliers, Grots are a waste to me. Would drop them for Rollas. KFF is still useful. Might try to get that in there as well. I don't see the need for 2 jets. Ones is more then enough for support. 240 points off the field is rough for Orks. Then you have another 100 points in ADL which is a waste.

Why do you think 140 points are waste for a scoring equivalent of five lootaz with skyfire, interceptor and a 4+ cover save which cannot be shot most of the time?

Well if done right you shouldn't need to camp on an objective for one. The 4+ save is nice but can be done if you are in ruins, which cost nothing. And Lootas shoot well enough with out Skyfire. The intercept is ok. Not really needed if you ask me. You will do more damage the next turn then 4 little shots could ever do.

Ruins only provide 4+ cover if they actually hide your model. Grots cannot be shot at all unless the other model is elevated or right in front of it, due to being smaller than the ADL.

You need five lootaz to do the same damage the quad gun does at BS3. For just 65 points more you get twice as many wounds, rerollable leadership, bring along your own cover. And the best part, you can still get three units of lootaz in your elite slots on top of that, without blocking a ruin in which they could have been deployed.

"If done right" is hardly in argument. Your opponent is required to invest more than 140 points to wrestle that 3 VP objective from you, which can easily mean the difference between win and loss.

Well when I deploy my objectives they tend to be towards the middle of the table. That is where I want to be or will be at the end of the game. So keeping points in the back field to hold the objective is a waste to me. No matter how little the points might be. After all you only need one objective to win.

Unless your opponent got first blood. Then you need two.

That little 40pt unit has won me many games in 5th!
It may look like lots of points invested in AA fire but it's really points invested in dual purpose units. Loots, D3 S7 shots that can now shoots on the move in an rule set that requires more shooting! Lol even in 5th when we did not have flyers Lootas where an auto include unit. ADL can ski fire yes but it's also very good at shooting at group targets, provides a 4+ cover for my lootas if needed, and hides a grot unit that’s camping an objective.
Sure you only need 1 to win, so why not have it be the one in your backlines that has a sea of green standing in front of it?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the Dakka jets very good at taking out ground and air targets as well. On T2 if both jets come aboard I can pump out 36 shots to just about anywhere on the table.
Trucks are a fun little transport that I used from time to time in 5th for quick objective grabbers. In 6th I don’t see them doing well, and would never put a high value target like mega nobz in just a weak transport.

 Jidmah wrote:
Unless your opponent got first blood. Then you need two.

Ha ha ha..yeah your right, but I will also get line breaker and possible warlord kill. But hey who knows I could get First blood.

I assume that any opponent manages to get line breaker somehow, and against some armies killing the warlord is simply impossible/not worth the trouble(Eldrad, Kairos, Mephiston or similar). So, if you aim for a single objective, it really comes down to first blood.

Having an ADL with gretchin to man it really takes the pressure of your army. You can now opt to kill things that are dangerous first, rather than being forced so at least move in the general direction of the objective. Especially with the two new deployment types, objectives can be a real pain to reach.

I would
- drop the Lootas down to 10, for the 2+ cover from Go to Ground
- change the Warboss to Ghazghkull Thraka for the 2nd Waaagh to maximize your Flyers Dakka
-Add more boyz, or lose some and add Deff Rollas

Thrakka does not grant a second Waagh!, he replaces the regular one with "better" one - which is actually all but useless under the current rules.

He does still get a 2++ and makes your army fearless. Useless? no. woth the points? again no.

One thing I have learned to consider when using battlewagons to rush is terrain placement. I like to put LOS blocking terrain midfield to give me someting to deny those side shots form most of the opponents units. It works like a charm most of the time though my common opponents are catching on and trying to neutralize it. I usually get most of my wagons downrange using this method.

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume that any opponent manages to get line breaker somehow, and against some armies killing the warlord is simply impossible/not worth the trouble(Eldrad, Kairos, Mephiston or similar). So, if you aim for a single objective, it really comes down to first blood.

Having an ADL with gretchin to man it really takes the pressure of your army. You can now opt to kill things that are dangerous first, rather than being forced so at least move in the general direction of the objective. Especially with the two new deployment types, objectives can be a real pain to reach.

So if you assume that any of your opponent can get line breaker, whats to stop them from killing those grots that you have in the back field? I don't know about you but I don't like those odds very much. Alls it take si one flamer and whoosh! they are all dead, or running away.

I don't aim for a single objective. It only take ones to win. Weather you have 4 and he has 3 or if you have 1 and he has none. Yes with the addition of secondary objectives it makes it a bit more difficult. But with Lootas you should be able to get the first blood no Problem. Killling the Warlord isn't that hard IMHO. And Line breaker should be a breeze for most Ork amries. So yes I only need one to win.

Here is take ...3 on my list. Not much of a change.

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ:
1 Mega-armoured Warboss, 130 pts + Attack Squig + Bosspole + Cybork Body

Elite:
14 Lootas, 210 pts

Elite:
14 Lootas, 210 pts

Troops:
4 Meganobz, 160 pts
1 Battlewagon, 115 pts = Deff Rolla + Big Shoota x1

Troops:
10 Gretchin, 40 pts
1 Runtherd,

Troops:
17 Boyz, 148 pts
1 Boyz Nob, + Bosspole + Power Klaw

Troops:
18 Boyz, 154 pts
1 Boyz Nob, + Bosspole + Power Klaw

Troops:
17 Boyz, 148 pts
1 Boyz Nob, + Bosspole + Power Klaw

Fast Attack:
1 Dakkajet, 120 pts + TL Supa Shoota x3

Fast Attack:
1 Dakkajet, 120 pts + TL Supa Shoota x3

Heavy Support:
1 Battlewagon, 115 pts Deff Rolla + Big Shoota x1

Heavy Support:
1 Battlewagon, 115 pts Deff Rolla + Big Shoota x1

Heavy Support:
1 Battlewagon, 115 pts Deff Rolla + Big Shoota x1

: Aegis Defence Lines 100 pts
1 Gun Emplacement, Quad-gun

Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Elite: 2 (0 - 3)
Troops: 5 (2 - 6)
Fast: 2 (0 - 3)
Heavy: 3 (0 - 3)
Fort: 1 (0 - 1)

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com