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Buttons wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Also. how are sniper rifles treating you guys so far?

Sniper rifles always make me die a little inside. I mean they look cool, but when you start looking up the odds of doing damage, and then compare it to similarly priced special weapons (flamers and grenade launchers), not to mention that you can't move and shoot, it just losses out. Granted Ratling count-as have been effective MC slayers for me, a squad of 10 can slay something like a carnifex over 3-4 turns.

My GH with plasmaguns kill a carnifex in 1 turn outside of cover

Oh how sucky snipers are...

Like I said, only reason I'm looking at snipers is as a cheap way to make use of all the spare special weapon slots you usually see on PCS's and CCS's. Anything there is better than a lasgun, and since they're small units, I don't like putting the high profile weapons on them. It tends to make them firing magnets.

As for plasma. Played a 500pts game against myself (couldn't sleep, had to do something ) as a game against a 40 or so strong horde ork list vs a 3 "duravet" list with a primaris pysker. Even with a +4 save on every model, I rolled a depressing amount of gets hot, and I think I only lost 1 out of the 5 dead gunners to ork fire. The other 4 burned themselves to death, two of which were on the first turn. This highlights the problem I've had with them. They almost feel like they've got combi weapons instead of a plasma gun. The guardsmen kill themselves off so fast, I feel like I'll only ever get 1 or 2 solid rounds of shooting before the unit guts itself. However, my primaris pysker literally failed all but 1 of his pysker tests that game by rolling 10's every turn, so maybe it was just crummy luck. Still, any unit that can neuter itself just by shooting (something IG does a lot) does not lend me confidence. I would rather take other solutions to 2+ armor that doesn't kill whoever's holding it.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Like I said, only reason I'm looking at snipers is as a cheap way to make use of all the spare special weapon slots you usually see on PCS's and CCS's. Anything there is better than a lasgun, and since they're small units, I don't like putting the high profile weapons on them. It tends to make them firing magnets.

As for plasma. Played a 500pts game against myself (couldn't sleep, had to do something ) as a game against a 40 or so strong horde ork list vs a 3 "duravet" list with a primaris pysker. Even with a +4 save on every model, I rolled a depressing amount of gets hot, and I think I only lost 1 out of the 5 dead gunners to ork fire. The other 4 burned themselves to death, two of which were on the first turn. This highlights the problem I've had with them. They almost feel like they've got combi weapons instead of a plasma gun. The guardsmen kill themselves off so fast, I feel like I'll only ever get 1 or 2 solid rounds of shooting before the unit guts itself. However, my primaris pysker literally failed all but 1 of his pysker tests that game by rolling 10's every turn, so maybe it was just crummy luck. Still, any unit that can neuter itself just by shooting (something IG does a lot) does not lend me confidence. I would rather take other solutions to 2+ armor that doesn't kill whoever's holding it.

That about sums it up for me. But lets not under-rate it, plasma IS (IMO) the go-to choice for thinning out terminators and other elite units, and perhaps one of the better ways to equip a suicide stormtrooper squad, as they'll most likely only get one shot off anyways and the scatter may put them out of melta range for their intended target, but as far as vets in a 'mira, or the infantry squads on the ground, the value of a melta becomes more apparent as the game goes on. The main problem is, guardsmen are squishy, and if you're not careful with your unit placement, the melta trooper will eat the first of bolter round of the battle.

I guess it's a balancing act of how long you expect the particular squad to live versus the benefits of chancing that second plasma shot. If you expect the squad to last for four or five turns, go melta, if you plop 'em right in front of 20 twin-linked stormbolters, go plasma.

That's the way I see it anyways.

I typically run half and half in my foot guard. The squads with the melta guns will hang out in front, while the ones with plasma stay right behind them. With the 30" threat range, and rapid fire, i find them taking down a lot of nasties that get too close.

I also run plasma gun vets in chimeras. I tend to either send them out to take out problem units early on in the game, or to hang back and take out deep strikers.

I also find with the rapid fire, its much easier to glance a vehicle to death, than it is to outright blow one up with melta.