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 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Often you like to play a devil's advoctae and argue about some minor points, but this time you're just trolling Dogma. Seriously.

Not really. The kid's life hasn't been destroyed, as she is still alive. The only sense in which it might have been "destroyed" is one which requires a qualitative assessment by the parents, or another observer. Which is to say an idealization.

Yea its pretty destroyed. you can say: oh compared to death. true that, but of course we all die, so that arguments's irrelevant. She will never be what she was going to be.

 Frazzled wrote:

Yea its pretty destroyed. you can say: oh compared to death. true that, but of course we all die, so that arguments's irrelevant. She will never be what she was going to be.

What was she going to be?

 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Yea its pretty destroyed. you can say: oh compared to death. true that, but of course we all die, so that arguments's irrelevant. She will never be what she was going to be.

What was she going to be?

How about, not mentally scarred for the rest of her life, or with this on her CV?

 p_gray99 wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Yea its pretty destroyed. you can say: oh compared to death. true that, but of course we all die, so that arguments's irrelevant. She will never be what she was going to be.

What was she going to be?

How about, not mentally scarred for the rest of her life, or with this on her CV?

That pretty much sums it up.

 p_gray99 wrote:
How about, not mentally scarred for the rest of her life, or with this on her CV?

Why would she put a sexual assault on her CV?

Regardless, my best friend was raped when she was 13. She would kick you in the balls for stating that her life was defined by that rape. It did change her life, but then so does pretty much everything we do. Significance is added by context, where "context" is not limited to the event itself.

To be blunt, the attitude Fraz is expressing is destructive (See what I did there?), and should be derided.

 Frazzled wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Often you like to play a devil's advoctae and argue about some minor points, but this time you're just trolling Dogma. Seriously.

Not really. The kid's life hasn't been destroyed, as she is still alive. The only sense in which it might have been "destroyed" is one which requires a qualitative assessment by the parents, or another observer. Which is to say an idealization.

Yea its pretty destroyed. you can say: oh compared to death. true that, but of course we all die, so that arguments's irrelevant. She will never be what she was going to be.

de·stroy   [dih-stroi] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.
2.
to put an end to; extinguish.
3.
to kill; slay.
4.
to render ineffective or useless; nullify; neutralize; invalidate.
5.
to defeat completely.

So... She was defeated?

I'm sorry, when was "gang raped at the age of 11" not ever a life crushing situation that would change a person like, forever.

Quit trolling this. Seriously. In the words of the immortal bard:
"Have you no decency sir!"

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm sorry, when was "gang raped at the age of 11" not ever a life crushing situation that would change a person like, forever.

Good, progress, we've moved past "destroyed".

 Frazzled wrote:

Quit trolling this. Seriously. In the words of the immortal bard:
"Have you no decency sir!"

I have no decency, but I'm also not trolling. I'm honestly annoyed by the paternalistic crap you're espousing.

 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm sorry, when was "gang raped at the age of 11" not ever a life crushing situation that would change a person like, forever.

Good, progress, we've moved past "destroyed".

 Frazzled wrote:

Quit trolling this. Seriously. In the words of the immortal bard:
"Have you no decency sir!"

I have no decency, but I'm also not trolling. I'm honestly annoyed by the paternalistic crap you're espousing.

I'm just not getting what posuition you're trying to take here, and frankly WHY you're making it.

The position I'm taking is that rape doesn't destroy life, and the only sense in which it could be said to is a weak appeal to imagination*. I'm taking this position because pretending that rape does destroy life is not only unhelpful, but chauvinist: "Oh no, you're not a virgin, well, you're useless now."



*My kid was going to be amazing!

It's not simply just the fact that they've had sex. It's that they were mentally not ready for it, and that they were forced into it, which would basically be telling them, "we can do what we like to you and you're an object in our minds". The knowledge that this is how people see you is plenty enough to destroy someone's sanity, and in your example of a person that simply didn't care about being raped at a young age, this simply suggests to me that she wasn't mentally capable enough to realize what this meant in the attitudes of people towards her.

 dogma wrote:
The position I'm taking is that rape doesn't destroy life, and the only sense in which it could be said to is a weak appeal to imagination. I'm taking this position because pretending that rape does destroy life is not only unhelpful, but chauvinist: "Oh no, you're not a virgin, well, you're useless now."

That's utter bs.

It's not other people saying that she's useless. It's people using this thing called empathy to try to imagine how they'd feel in that situation, where you've just been raped by a large group of men and some of the people from your town are blaming you for it.

Try and think about how that will make her feel. Will she feel the same as she did before she was raped? No, of course not. Her childhood has been shattered in a horrific way, that's something she can never get back. Her childhood and by extension the life she should have had as a child has been destroyed, she's been forced into an adult world and once that happens it's almost impossible to get out of it.

If you think it's a chauvinistic point of view then go to a help group for women victims of rape and tell them that rape doesn't destroy lives. Then you can come back here and tell us if their responses fitted with your view.

 dogma wrote:
The position I'm taking is that rape doesn't destroy life, and the only sense in which it could be said to is a weak appeal to imagination*. I'm taking this position because pretending that rape does destroy life is not only unhelpful, but chauvinist: "Oh no, you're not a virgin, well, you're useless now."

Actually I'd say that rape hurts male victims just as much. Especially young male victims, who are often emotionally tortured by the event for the rest of their lives. Many parts of our society is already hateful enough about sexuality as it is, but male on male sex is, to them, a special kind of sin that is evil and wrong and bad and evilwrongbad, no matter the situation behind it, and being victimized is, to them, just plain unmanly!

Ugh.

 p_gray99 wrote:

...and in your example of a person that simply didn't care about being raped at a young age...

I didn't say that she didn't care, I said that she would take umbrage to someone claiming that her rape defined her life.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

It's not other people saying that she's useless. It's people using this thing called empathy to try to imagine how they'd feel in that situation, where you've just been raped by a large group of men and some of the people from your town are blaming you for it.

I'm sure that she would feel useless, but do you think its a good idea to reinforce that notion?

I'll answer for you: No, it isn't.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

...the life she should have had as a child has been destroyed, she's been forced into an adult world and once that happens it's almost impossible to get out of it.

So, the life you wanted her to have?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

If you think it's a chauvinistic point of view then go to a help group for women victims of rape and tell them that rape doesn't destroy lives. Then you can come back here and tell us if their responses fitted with your view.

They probably wouldn't, because the would most likely respond emotively. I'm not sure why that should be considered descriptive.

 Melissia wrote:
Actually I'd say that rape hurts male victims just as much. Especially young male victims, who are often emotionally tortured by the event for the rest of their lives. Many parts of our society is already hateful enough about sexuality as it is, but male on male sex is, to them, a special kind of sin that is evil and wrong and bad and evilwrongbad, no matter the situation behind it, and being victimized is, to them, just plain unmanly!

Ugh.

Fair point, I agree.

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm sorry, when was "gang raped at the age of 11" not ever a life crushing situation that would change a person like, forever.

Quit trolling this. Seriously. In the words of the immortal bard:
"Have you no decency sir!"

From the start this thread has been blind rampaging spam by people without the decency to read the article or process what it was actually talking about. You're doing no better. Don't try to claim a high horse when all you're doing is running around with a sad mob because it gets your blood up when you hear about something you don't have experience with happening in a place you've never been to people you never knew in an article that didn't seek to inform you about any of the above. You're just another angry little blip in their advertisement click through statistic.

You're just helping to make the world more uninformed.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm sorry, when was "gang raped at the age of 11" not ever a life crushing situation that would change a person like, forever.

Quit trolling this. Seriously. In the words of the immortal bard:
"Have you no decency sir!"

From the start this thread has been blind rampaging spam by people without the decency to read the article or process what it was actually talking about. You're doing no better. Don't try to claim a high horse when all you're doing is running around with a sad mob because it gets your blood up when you hear about something you don't have experience with happening in a place you've never been to people you never knew in an article that didn't seek to inform you about any of the above. You're just another angry little blip in their advertisement click through statistic.

You're just helping to make the world more uninformed.

Well I for one am glad you got that off your chest. Do you feel better now?

Shuma, can you stop ranting about how you're better than everyone else, we have a thread here and we're trying to talk about stuff.

 Frazzled wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm sorry, when was "gang raped at the age of 11" not ever a life crushing situation that would change a person like, forever.

Quit trolling this. Seriously. In the words of the immortal bard:
"Have you no decency sir!"

From the start this thread has been blind rampaging spam by people without the decency to read the article or process what it was actually talking about. You're doing no better. Don't try to claim a high horse when all you're doing is running around with a sad mob because it gets your blood up when you hear about something you don't have experience with happening in a place you've never been to people you never knew in an article that didn't seek to inform you about any of the above. You're just another angry little blip in their advertisement click through statistic.

You're just helping to make the world more uninformed.

Well I for one am glad you got that off your chest. Do you feel better now?

No, because inevitably in an hour you're going to be in another thread spreading disinformation, pulling it off topic, or arguing a fallacious argument about something you read on free republic. This entire thread is indicative of the fact that this forum has an exceptionally difficult time discussing anything the least bit "ugly" or contentious without having two thirds of all replies being the same spammy "I don't approve of rape!" type of reply, as if that were ever the basis of the discussion in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Shuma, can you stop ranting about how you're better than everyone else, we have a thread here and we're trying to talk about stuff.

Oh, you mean you want to talk about whats not in the bible and how Christians are unchristian some more?

That would actually be more interesting than you talking about how you're better than everyone else, yes

But personally, I was more thinking about talking about, you know, how the town itself is behaving emotionally instead of rationally.

 Melissia wrote:
That would actually be more interesting than you talking about how you're better than everyone else, yes

But personally, I was more thinking about talking about, you know, how the town itself is behaving emotionally instead of rationally.

Oh, the thing I had been trying to talk about for pages while people asked why I was defending rape? The thing you haven't mentioned a single time in this thread? Sure, I'd love to talk about that.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm sorry, when was "gang raped at the age of 11" not ever a life crushing situation that would change a person like, forever.

Quit trolling this. Seriously. In the words of the immortal bard:
"Have you no decency sir!"

From the start this thread has been blind rampaging spam by people without the decency to read the article or process what it was actually talking about. You're doing no better. Don't try to claim a high horse when all you're doing is running around with a sad mob because it gets your blood up when you hear about something you don't have experience with happening in a place you've never been to people you never knew in an article that didn't seek to inform you about any of the above. You're just another angry little blip in their advertisement click through statistic.

You're just helping to make the world more uninformed.

Well I for one am glad you got that off your chest. Do you feel better now?

No, because inevitably in an hour you're going to be in another thread spreading disinformation, pulling it off topic, or arguing a fallacious argument about something you read on free republic. This entire thread is indicative of the fact that this forum has an exceptionally difficult time discussing anything the least bit "ugly" or contentious without having two thirds of all replies being the same spammy "I don't approve of rape!" type of reply, as if that were ever the basis of the discussion in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Shuma, can you stop ranting about how you're better than everyone else, we have a thread here and we're trying to talk about stuff.

Oh, you mean you want to talk about whats not in the bible and how Christians are unchristian some more?

Hey no one is making you read it.

 ShumaGorath wrote:
The thing you haven't mentioned a single time in this thread? Sure, I'd love to talk about that.

Goddamnit Shuma, stop being such a massive, hilarious failure. My face is hurting from laughing while recovering from recent sunburns -.-

 Melissia wrote:
Yes, I'm passing judgement. Even if she said okay, I'd STILL condemn the rapes and the people who blamed her.

She's ELEVEN YEARS OLD. Even IF it was her choice, it wasn't her choice.

Despite evidence at Eric McGowen's trial that included a confession, DNA evidence, the girl's tearful testimony and a video of her being assaulted, others haven't been swayed.

http://techdigest.tv/nuclear_explosion.jpg
The only solution.

[Emphasis not in original post]
My first post in the thread. My second post was also on topic. As was my third. In fact, I was on topic until the third page Meanwhile you were doing your arrogant schmuck shtick, getting off topic on your second post in the thread.

But you know, I change my mind; keep on ranting Shuma, even if it hurts, laughter is still pleasant

Or perhaps we can, you know, get on topic. Certainly I don't mind sticking to my guns, as it were.

 Melissia wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:
The thing you haven't mentioned a single time in this thread? Sure, I'd love to talk about that.

Goddamnit Shuma, stop being such a massive, hilarious failure. My face is hurting from laughing while recovering from recent sunburns -.-

 Melissia wrote:
Yes, I'm passing judgement. Even if she said okay, I'd STILL condemn the rapes and the people who blamed her.

She's ELEVEN YEARS OLD. Even IF it was her choice, it wasn't her choice.

Despite evidence at Eric McGowen's trial that included a confession, DNA evidence, the girl's tearful testimony and a video of her being assaulted, others haven't been swayed.

http://techdigest.tv/nuclear_explosion.jpg
The only solution.

[Emphasis not in original post]
My first post in the thread. My second post was also on topic. As was my third. In fact, I was on topic until the third page Meanwhile you were doing your arrogant schmuck shtick, getting off topic on your second post in the thread.

But you know, I change my mind; keep on ranting Shuma, even if it hurts, laughter is still pleasant

Or perhaps we can, you know, get on topic. Certainly I don't mind sticking to my guns, as it were.

Ahh, yes. Your spammy me too post where you rant about how terrible the town is without trying to discuss anything relating to the article. I see you added a nuclear explosion to it and inferred that you want everyone involved to die.

Yep Mellissa, thats clearly not the exact kind of useless and inflammatory post that I've been trying to battle against all thread. Clearly you're here for the discussion of racial divisiveness and bias in reporting and not the "me too" uninformed anger and armchair judging. the nuclear explosion makes that clear

I'll just pack up my bags and take a vacation. Clearly you've got the intellectual side of this handled. It's in the bag. I can sip my tea in peace knowing you're on watch here.

When in her defense I'm not seeing you espousing much of anything except hostility. Please further enlighten us on your views on the racial angle.

You drink tea? I can honestly say that I never saw that coming.

 Frazzled wrote:
When in her defense I'm not seeing you espousing much of anything except hostility. Please further enlighten us on your views on the racial angle.

"There's probably a good deal of racial tension involving all black arrests involving rape considering the regional history concerning false arrests motivated by racism using rape as the crime." It's hard to have an opinion on the issue since the article does such an incredibly poor time elaborating on anything other than the moral laxity of the town. That's why my first few posts were talking about how poor and targeted the article was, rather than commenting on the situation. We don't actually have enough info to really come to a useful conclusion on this. Doing such is a disservice to everyone because this is a heavy issue involving tens of thousands of people and here everyone is judging them without a barest minimum of facts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albatross wrote:
You drink tea? I can honestly say that I never saw that coming.

I love tea. Little bit of milk in some english black and I'm set.

 Albatross wrote:
You drink tea? I can honestly say that I never saw that coming.

If referring to me:
Summer: you betcha
Winter: Earl Grey or Russian Tea.
Now I know you saying LIAR!!!!! Texas has no weather besides "summer" and "hell on earth." We're just so use to the heat that, when it drops below 100,000 we get cold.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ShumaGorath wrote:
"There's probably a good deal of racial tension involving all black arrests involving rape considering the regional history concerning false arrests motivated by racism using rape as the crime." It's hard to have an opinion on the issue since the article does such an incredibly poor time elaborating on anything other than the moral laxity of the town. That's why my first few posts were talking about how poor and targeted the article was, rather than commenting on the situation. We don't actually have enough info to really come to a useful conclusion on this. Doing such is a disservice to everyone because this is a heavy issue involving tens of thousands of people and here everyone is judging them without a barest minimum of facts.

Agreed and thats the real story - although we're not seeing it. The ethnicity of the victim is a deal here as well: hispanic. Not only is there the racial angle (black vs. brown), but you have "newcomers" vs. "immigrants" going on in that context.

 dogma wrote:
The position I'm taking is that rape doesn't destroy life, and the only sense in which it could be said to is a weak appeal to imagination*. I'm taking this position because pretending that rape does destroy life is not only unhelpful, but chauvinist: "Oh no, you're not a virgin, well, you're useless now."



*My kid was going to be amazing!

Thats so mean, and not cute even if you are studying to be a lawyer

http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/mentalimpact.shtml

http://www.suicide.org/rape-victims-prone-to-suicide.html

I just hope if you ever have a daughter, she wont suffer the same fate,
or even worse, you telling her what you told Frazzled ....

Also the petty talk making fun of the sentence "destroyed her life" , nope there is nothing wrong with that sentence since life and living life is also philosophical.

de·stroy   [dih-stroi] Show IPA

1.
to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.
2.
to put an end to; extinguish.

"Life, live, lively, full of life "

the animate existence or period of animate existence of an individual: to risk one's life; a short life and a merry one.

the general or universal condition of human existence: Too bad, but life is like that.

You guys knew perfectly what he meant, yet you decide to poke fun of it, yes you are such classy people.

@Dogma, I DO realize you use dakka as a leisure, past time type of "game/practice / exercise" for your studies. But good luck if you think a bunch of good willed people posting for the sake of
justice, is comparable with what you needed... "lawyers that are capable ( not really about capability, whether give a damn about wanting to argue whether black is actually white" You are just fooling yourself.

I was molested as a child by my male babysitter, if you say to my face that it 'destroyed my life' then I will fething break you. When you say that you tell the victim that they are no longer a person, their entire life is now defined by that one event. That they can never be a complete person nor live a normal life. All my hatred goes to people who act as if that singular action is now the entirety of my person, and I hold now ill will to my attacker who I have long since forgiven. I find those who reinforce negative thoughts and feelings to be odious and have a complete misunderstanding of a victims mentality and are doing it solely to make themselves feel better.

 youbedead wrote:
I was molested as a child by my male babysitter, if you say to my face that it 'destroyed my life' then I will fething break you. When you say that you tell the victim that they are no longer a person, their entire life is now defined by that one event. That they can never be a complete person nor live a normal life. All my hatred goes to people who act as if that singular action is now the entirety of my person, and I hold now ill will to my attacker who I have long since forgiven. I find those who reinforce negative thoughts and feelings to be odious and have a complete misunderstanding of a victims mentality and are doing it solely to make themselves feel better.

Yes because clearly, you = everyone right? I mean half of me want to congratulate how you can overcome and defeat such incident.

But the other half of me just want to rage over the fact that you think just because YOU could, you assume everyone else can.

OT is often so interesting, as interesting as 4chan. Because down to it, its still nothing but a microcosm.