Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

well im planning to have mech army and i wanna have vet with 3x plasma gun and hw in chimera with ML/HB.HS my idea isj just to sit back and shoot alot of shoots and idk which HW too use.. its either autocannon ,ML or LC but let me know what do you guys think which one do you think its the best choice or should i just take it out ?

Ofernandez wrote:
well im planning to have mech army and i wanna have vet with 3x plasma gun and hw in chimera with ML/HB.HS my idea isj just to sit back and shoot alot of shoots and idk which HW too use.. its either autocannon ,ML or LC but let me know what do you guys think which one do you think its the best choice or should i just take it out ?

Anything really. The bulk of the firepower is the plasma, the rest is gravy. You might even try a mortar. S4 blast, barrage, and direct fire plasma can make for interesting wound pools.

-Matt

I go 3x plas 1x hw auto cannon. Cost effective and efficient.

Autocannon and Lascannon would both be solid choices. Autocannon gets you two more S7 shots, helping add to that S7 spam. Within 12", that's 8 BS 4 Strength 7 shots, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Lascannon gets you more AP 2 spam, and will allow that chimera to sit there and act like a light tank destroyer if it's got nothing better to shoot at. The lascannon can also instant death a lot of bullet sponge IC's that people are running these days to take shots for weaker squads, which is nice as well.

what do you think of the ML.??

I use the ML from time to time. Not that crazy about it. Recently I have had fun with this vet squad:

3 sniper rifles
SGT Harker
Heavy bolter team.

So, stealth, infiltrate, two heavy bolters, and three snipers. It is fun. Not saying it will change the game, but, it is fun.

I'd ditch the heavy weapon. Vets aren't going to be a static gun line, especially if they're in a transport. Snap firing the heavy weapon is just a waste of points.

I agree, autocannon to increase S7 spam, or lascannon to increase Ap2 spam. Nothing else is terribly congruous.

And just because something is in a chimera doesn't mean it needs to snap fire. Odds are that the chimera is sitting still for the first couple of turns (or, well, all of them up to turn 5).

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'd ditch the heavy weapon. Vets aren't going to be a static gun line, especially if they're in a transport. Snap firing the heavy weapon is just a waste of points.

This. Save the points and get Marbo or something. Mech guard don't need heavy weapons.

?

Weapon upgrades are the most efficient way to increase a unit's (and, by extention, an army's) killing power.

It's not difficult to see why. Marbo is a single S8 Ap2 earthshaker round. For the points, you could get 20 BS4 S7 Ap4 shots per turn, rather than just once. Rather obvious which of those will do more damage for the same points cost.

I would say the autocannon is the most flexible. You get two shots, and at BS4 theyre more likely to stick. Lascannon is good too, albeit 10 points more and there will be few things that benefit more from a single str9 ap2 shot vs two str 7 ap4 shots.

Lascannon obviously has the easiest time popping vehicles, but beyond that its kind of overkill, and shooting it at GEQs or units in cover mean It'll be less cost effective than the autocannon.

 Ailaros wrote:
?

Weapon upgrades are the most efficient way to increase a unit's (and, by extention, an army's) killing power.

It's not difficult to see why. Marbo is a single S8 Ap2 earthshaker round. For the points, you could get 20 BS4 S7 Ap4 shots per turn, rather than just once. Rather obvious which of those will do more damage for the same points cost.

uhhhh, not sure where you're getting 20 shots Ailaros. Marbo is only 65pts. So by extension, that would only be 12 autocannon shots per turn. Still good, but marbo offers something that literally nothing else in the IG codex can offer.

He is the ultimate hitman. For a mech list, I'm sure they need credible backfield threats as much as we do. Marbo is always an excellent addition to any army. Mech guard would be no exception. And marbo can pretty reliably pick off enemy units you want dead. He's already sniped a BT chaplain, A chaos aspiring champion, and several special weapon wielders and sergeants. The ability to premeasure and make sure he's as close as possible to his target is nothing to sneeze at. Only time I've found him less than ideal is against plaguebearers, but that's only because they were stupid lucky with their saves.

 Ailaros wrote:
?

Weapon upgrades are the most efficient way to increase a unit's (and, by extention, an army's) killing power.

It's not difficult to see why. Marbo is a single S8 Ap2 earthshaker round. For the points, you could get 20 BS4 S7 Ap4 shots per turn, rather than just once. Rather obvious which of those will do more damage for the same points cost.

Mech guard move a lot. They move to deny cover, to avoid enemy units, to maximise potential threat (and therefore dictate, to an extent, where your enemy goes), to defend other units.

1 or 2 turns not snap firing isn't worth the cost. Though if I had to I'd still go with lascannons, autocannons just do not do much for me. But yeah I'd be hard pressed to make a mech vet list with 100 points to spare to distrobute 5 lascannons around.

IMO, it's a situational upgrade. I can see the point in 6th now that moving doesn't keep you from firing entirely, but vets are still a unit that likes to move a lot. So, if you're going to take heavy weapons, you should keep them cheap. I can see the value of 10-point autocannons on vet squads (especially if you're just spending the last few points in the list) since it's a cheap investment with a reasonable chance of earning its points if you do get a situation where you can hold them stationary for a while, and not a huge loss if you have to snap fire them. However, getting anything more expensive seems like a bad deal. Once you start handing out lascannons you go from "too cheap to care" to "I could afford a whole HWS for that", which is just too many points for a situational upgrade.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
uhhhh, not sure where you're getting 20 shots Ailaros. Marbo is only 65pts. So by extension, that would only be 12 autocannon shots per turn. Still good, but marbo offers something that literally nothing else in the IG codex can offer.

Plus there's the cost of getting the bodies to carry those autocannons. If you don't already have squads with open weapon upgrade slots (preferably ones that can remain stationary, otherwise snap fire requires even more ACs to equal Marbo) you have to buy entire squads, not just single autocannons.

 martin74 wrote:
I use the ML from time to time. Not that crazy about it. Recently I have had fun with this vet squad:

3 sniper rifles
SGT Harker
Heavy bolter team.

So, stealth, infiltrate, two heavy bolters, and three snipers. It is fun. Not saying it will change the game, but, it is fun.

Yep, I plan on using that same configuration. They also do well with grav chute insertion out of a valk. Auto pass dangerous terrain tests

Testify wrote:Mech guard move a lot. They move to deny cover, to avoid enemy units, to maximise potential threat (and therefore dictate, to an extent, where your enemy goes), to defend other units.

1 or 2 turns not snap firing isn't worth the cost.

2 turns of firing a BS4 lascannon causes a wreck on a rhino at .3. How much does a lascannon upgrade cost compared to the price of a rhino? 40%. That's pretty close making its points back. Of course, if it shoots at anything bigger, it does even better, as acing a terminator or having several of them glance a land raider to death will make them a VERY worthwhile investment.

And then, after those first two turns, you get to snap fire still, which probably means another hit some time in the game.

Peregrine wrote:Once you start handing out lascannons you go from "too cheap to care" to "I could afford a whole HWS for that", which is just too many points for a situational upgrade.

He's running vets, though. Plus, I think I'd still take a squad of vets with a lascannon over a 3x lascannon HWS. The latter will instantly evaporate, while the vets are likely to actually get a couple of shots off with that lascannon.

Peregrine wrote:Plus there's the cost of getting the bodies to carry those autocannons. If you don't already have squads with open weapon upgrade slots (preferably ones that can remain stationary, otherwise snap fire requires even more ACs to equal Marbo) you have to buy entire squads, not just single autocannons.

You missed the point here. He's already bringing the vets

 Ailaros wrote:

2 turns of firing a BS4 lascannon causes a wreck on a rhino at .3. How much does a lascannon upgrade cost compared to the price of a rhino? 40%. That's pretty close making its points back. Of course, if it shoots at anything bigger, it does even better, as acing a terminator or having several of them glance a land raider to death will make them a VERY worthwhile investment.

Well the chance of taking out a terminator is 0.6*0.83*0.6, that's a 0.37 chance from each shot, to take out non TH termies. Except, most enemies don't leave expensive infantry like that hanging around the field unfortunately.

I honestly can't envisage a list that had the points to spare. Mech guard is about bringing lots of high firepower armour to the table, those 60-80 points could easily be spent elsewhere. Hell 5 stormies with 2*meltas is only 105pts.

Testify wrote: Mech guard is about bringing lots of high firepower armour to the table, those 60-80 points could easily be spent elsewhere.

Exactly. It's about bringing firepower. How about 3 or 4 BS4 lascannons? That's firepower.

 Ailaros wrote:
2 turns of firing a BS4 lascannon causes a wreck on a rhino at .3. How much does a lascannon upgrade cost compared to the price of a rhino? 40%. That's pretty close making its points back. Of course, if it shoots at anything bigger, it does even better, as acing a terminator or having several of them glance a land raider to death will make them a VERY worthwhile investment.

Now reduce that to BS 1 to account for the fact that vets will often be moving and unable to shoot their heavy weapon(s) at full BS. Doesn't look so impressive anymore, does it?

Peregrine wrote:You missed the point here. He's already bringing the vets

Sure, he has the vets, but is he willing to keep them stationary to effectively use an expensive heavy weapon? And if he is, should he be willing to do that?

And of course if you aren't willing to accept that opportunity cost (for example, the melta shots you don't get to take until it's too late) of not moving, you're right back to exactly what I said: you need to buy bodies to carry your lascannon in addition to the cost of the weapon upgrade itself. And once you start buying stationary squads to hold heavy weapons, HWS start to look a lot more appealing.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
2 turns of firing a BS4 lascannon causes a wreck on a rhino at .3. How much does a lascannon upgrade cost compared to the price of a rhino? 40%. That's pretty close making its points back. Of course, if it shoots at anything bigger, it does even better, as acing a terminator or having several of them glance a land raider to death will make them a VERY worthwhile investment.

Now reduce that to BS 1 to account for the fact that vets will often be moving and unable to shoot their heavy weapon(s) at full BS. Doesn't look so impressive anymore, does it?

Peregrine wrote:You missed the point here. He's already bringing the vets

Sure, he has the vets, but is he willing to keep them stationary to effectively use an expensive heavy weapon? And if he is, should he be willing to do that?.

It isn't all that hard keeping the vets moving but the actual heavy weapon stationary.
And as has been mentioned earlier, its not often that you move maximum full speed ahead with your vets from turn 1 anyway, and a couple of semi-static rounds of shooting before you move on up the board won't hurt you.

Tjolle79 wrote:
It isn't all that hard keeping the vets moving but the actual heavy weapon stationary.

When a Chimera moves or the squad disembarks from a Vendetta, the heavy weapon counts as moving.

And as has been mentioned earlier, its not often that you move maximum full speed ahead with your vets from turn 1 anyway, and a couple of semi-static rounds of shooting before you move on up the board won't hurt you.

ANY movement is enough to make it BS 1, not just "full speed ahead". And given that the whole reason vets exist is to deliver melta and/or plasma, you're either going to immediately rush them forward to kill a priority target, or you're going to move them into position to kill something in the middle turns. Either way, the transport moves, and the heavy weapon is BS 1.

Subject: whats a good hw choice for IG Vets

I think none. Vets are best when transported to the enemy and in that case you would only fire snap shots with heavy guns. Foot vets on the other hand are best with every weapon you can give them. I would say AC for foot vets for S7 spam and cheaper version.

I think Ailaros and I both mainly speak for foot guard vet units. I know i am.

The effectivity of a HWT in Chimera-carried veteran units are alot lower because of the restrictions from transports.