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Ok, the Black Legion was originally based around surviving members of the Sons of Horus who were in turn originally the Luna Wolves.

White as the full moon to a pale, dull green and finally to black.

The Black Legion after nearly 10 millenia has grown to have members from all the traitor legions and many 'converts' from the loyalists as well.

 Manchu wrote:

 leroy233 wrote:
why did the thousand sons change colour from red (pre-heresy) to blue after the heresy?

They've been holding their breath this whole time.

Oh dear, Manchu...

You're questioning Tzeentchian actions. Do you SEE how insane this is? It's like asking Deadpool why he just stabbed some random dude. Don't question it, just roll with the plan.

Hmm, questioning Tzeentech. That way madness lies...

I've got that Space Marine box in my basement right now, they are green.

Space Wolves changed from grey to blue at some point, so Dark Angels aren't the only changing loyalists.

Also, Death Guard never changed colors (after becoming the Death Guard anyway). They are still white. They only look green because they have been disgustified.

I remember it as green , and they're also green in both my father's and my copy of 'Transluminal:The paintings of Jim Burns'. And the cover of WD117 is very clearly green.

To be fair the Deathguard didn't so much change their color as stop cleaning their armor. But back to the original question most of the original traitor changed their armor. Iron warrior not withstanding.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Space Wolves changed from grey to blue at some point,

Space Wolf Grey has always had a blue tint to it. Just as Blood Angels Red was rather orange.

I remember the Dark Angels as being green on the Space Marine box, and it is weeks ago I saw it, not years, as I still have it in my parents' loft. Also, I looked at five different scans on Google images (no, not the same one five times) and they are clearly green in all of them, and not due to fading.

Banner in the background of that DA box art is green with a black DA symbol.

Didn't Rick Priestley come out and say that the Dark Angels were always supposed to be green, but somehow the message was mixed and they were portrayed as black in the Rogue Trader artwork.


Honestly the biggest disservice ever done to the Dark Angels was putting nearly all of them in little hoodie bathrobes, lol. They went from being cool, mysterious, angry dickbags to being the lamest looking of all the "Big Four" chapters.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Honestly the biggest disservice ever done to the Dark Angels was putting nearly all of them in little hoodie bathrobes, lol. They went from being cool, mysterious, angry dickbags to being the lamest looking of all the "Big Four" chapters.

I disagree.

For me, the robes alone almost sold me on Dark Angels. IMHO, they're one of the coolest looking Chapters/Legions, it was their modern background/ethos of hunting the Fallen that put me off collecting them.

I used to play a ton of DA, had a decent army till it went missing/stolen... anyway, the only reason I dont still run THEM is because of the new Canon on El'Jonson. He's a self-serving dick. Plain and simple. *Spoiler* I mean, come on, who hocks super-heavy weapons of siege warfare for a vote to be new Warmaster? Him. Dick.

 Sirmauz wrote:
I used to play a ton of DA, had a decent army till it went missing/stolen... anyway, the only reason I dont still run THEM is because of the new Canon on El'Jonson. He's a self-serving dick. Plain and simple. *Spoiler* I mean, come on, who hocks super-heavy weapons of siege warfare for a vote to be new Warmaster? Him. Dick.

I felt the same, but I've found the 2 short stories, Savage Weapons and The Lion make him look like an absolute dude however.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

Oh and regarding the Thousand Sons, it troubles me to no end that the 'Legion of one Thousand' took up both the colour and black M symbol of the original Sons, no idea why, just bugs me.

I wouldnt be so troubled by it - unless I missed something (and I might have, but I dont think I did) the Brotherhood of a Thousand (which I think is the legion you're referring to) is grey, not red, and the M symbol is the Roman numeral for 1,000.

The Thousand Son's original symbol was the Eating Serpent too, yeah?

Nah, the Son's original original symbol was a black M - both the Roman numeral for 1,000 as Carlovonsexron said, and also stood for Magnus. Then the Sons' original symbol was changed to be an eclipsed sun, either in white on red or red on white. If they were a psyker, they also had the symbol of their particular discipline (Athanaean, Corvidae, Pavoni, Pyrae, Raptora) in the middle of the sun.

They only started using the Ouroboros - serpent eating its tail - when they pledged allegiance to Tzeentch and changed their colours to blue, I believe.

And yeah, I've noticed the Brotherhood of a Thousand chapter before as well, and it made me go "hmm"...

 Skits wrote:
If they were a psyker

Umm... they were ALL psykers. That's why the Space Wolves were sent to bring them in (then Horus tricked them into destroying Prospero - the Space Wolves were victims of trickery, I just want to clear that up)

Colonel-Commissar wrote:

 Skits wrote:
If they were a psyker

Umm... they were ALL psykers. That's why the Space Wolves were sent to bring them in (then Horus tricked them into destroying Prospero - the Space Wolves were victims of trickery, I just want to clear that up)

No, they were NOT all psykers. If they were ALL psykers, there would be far fewer, if any Rubricae. From the Chaos Marine codex, page 37: "On the other hand, their battle brethren whose psychic powers had been slight or non-existent were permanently changed." Going by the (admittedly, games rules) fact that there seems to be about one aspiring sorcerer to every eight-nineteen Rubricae, and going by the Battle of the Fang book where there were more Rubricae than sorcerers (from what I remember, anyway, it's been a while), I'd be confident in saying that non-psychic Thousand Sons actually far outnumbered their psychic brethren.

The Wolves were sent to bring the Sons in because Magnus disobeyed the Edict of Nikaea by contacting the Emperor through sorcerous means to warn him of Horus' betrayal. Not because the Sons were psykers, but because Magnus disobeyed the Emperor's direct order. Nothing more or less than that.

 insaniak wrote:

Space Wolf Grey has always had a blue tint to it. Just as Blood Angels Red was rather orange.

I can't believe I'm going to have to disagree with the great Inasniak here....

There was a definite colour change for the Space Wolves, changing from a proper grey to a blue-ish grey. This is most aptly shown by the Space Wolf 13th Company armies, which are painted with Codex Grey followed by Fortress grey.

You make a good point.

My evidence was from Black Library, but some of their fluff should be taken with a pinch of salt...

Inquisitor, Skits, you both right. Wolves in the 1st and 2nd edition codexes are Fortress Grey for coloring, and yeah forgot the damn Ourobouros came later. Eh, not too bummed about being wrong though. You know why? HERESY! Hahaha... and yeah, the Sons were psychically INCLINED, not all psykers like the GK or Exorcists. That's the reason why they got so screwed in the end. The Psyker brothers could resist the change and mutation, but the other dudes pretty much went *pop* chaos spawn. Rubric cast, normal dudes now dusty shells, psykers are their puppet masters. Makes me think alot of the Wraithguard/lord of the Faildar.

Interesting bits from an old warseer thread:

in the days of rogue trader:
Iron Warriors were blue and worshipped Slaanesh
Alpha Legion were green and worshipped Slaanesh
Night Lords were black and worshipped Khorne
World Eaters were blue (but still worshipped khorne)
Word Bearers worshipped Khorne
Dark Angels were black
Space Wolves were a staunch follower of the codex
Ultramarines were a 5th founding chapter



The reason for the change as I understood it at the time was that the original Space Marine paint set had Blood Angels, Space Wolves and a Dark Green for the Salamanders. DA were chaos black. The black doesn't photograph well so GW started painting the DA in the Salamanders green colour for the Space Marine strikeforce box. When the paint range was redone the old Salamander Green became DA Green and the Sallies faded from the main GW chapters.

Nice work going back in the day man. If ya'll wanna see some good old stuff, Vuze and torrent the old books if you cannot find em at a local thrift store. Got lucky here!

 Compel wrote:
There was a definite colour change for the Space Wolves, changing from a proper grey to a blue-ish grey. This is most aptly shown by the Space Wolf 13th Company armies, which are painted with Codex Grey followed by Fortress grey.

Fluff-wise, yes, pre-Heresy they were Codex Grey. Model-wise, until the 13th Company came along the Wolves models had always been in the blue-grey 'Space Wolves Grey'.