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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Have you ever seen a necron army without scarabs? They are extremely popular right now.

Were popular. Swarms are weaker in 6th ed, and there's considerably less need for them now.

That, and 1 incinerator blast will still make the whole squad go away. And you're going to see a lot more flamers now.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Have you ever seen a necron army without scarabs? They are extremely popular right now.

Were popular. Swarms are weaker in 6th ed, and there's considerably less need for them now.

That, and 1 incinerator blast will still make the whole squad go away. And you're going to see a lot more flamers now.

Ya i just realized they don't have stealth anymore. At least they ignore terrain for movement and auto-pass dangerous terrain tests now. And can go up ruins...

*Edit*
Sorry, I'm thinking specifically of beasts for that last bit. Stupid scarabs...

*Edit 2*
Actually the one good thing about them in this edition is S6+ blast/template doesn't ID two bases anymore. So, there's that. Yay.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
All the people who never use Flayed Ones think that they are bad. Everyone I've talked to that has really taken the time to figure out their nuances and used them in an appropriate list have come away impressed with how wrong the preconceived notions on them are. They're a tarpit that can handle both infantry and most vehicles alike in 6th. They are also incredibly good against most varieties of Terms. And work swimmingly in DLord lists as they give the super beat stick a nice backup option when his Wraith or Triarch escort dies.Just a situation where people make bad assumptions based on there statline, ignore there overall capabilities, and allow preconceived notions to inform a confirmation bias in regard to any limited sampling pool.

QFT Though I'm currently trying to sell mine, maybe. I've found that flayed ones can be hilarious and awesome at the same time. If running imotek, you can bloodswarm nanoscarab an enemy so they don't scatter on the deep strike, leaving you to just get a blob of FO's.. but my personal favorite thing to do with flayed ones is..


wait for it....

15 flayed ones+1 Destroyer lord with MSS, Weave, and a res orb


Now above, that is far from a deathstar, but almost anything but a deathstar is going to have problems with it, if you kill a bunch they can still come back in pleanty, plus if the Dlord is in front of enemy fire he can just get the little guys to jump in the way of plasma This unit has made guardsmen piss themselves.

Did i mention he gives the whole unit preffered enemy?

 Kevin949 wrote:

Actually the one good thing about them in this edition is S6+ blast/template doesn't ID two bases anymore. So, there's that. Yay.

You made me double check, but no, they totally do, it says so right there under swarms on Pg 43 that they take double wounds from blasts and templates, and Str 6 will still double them out. Why did you think they didn't?

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

Actually the one good thing about them in this edition is S6+ blast/template doesn't ID two bases anymore. So, there's that. Yay.

You made me double check, but no, they totally do, it says so right there under swarms on Pg 43 that they take double wounds from blasts and templates, and Str 6 will still double them out. Why did you think they didn't?

There's another post on this in some other thread but the wound is doubled AFTER it's taken out of the wound pool so both wounds go on the same base. the extra wound does not go back into the wound pool because it's doubled after allocation, so only one base is ID'd per Str6+ blast/template.

 IronfrontAlex wrote:

Now above, that is far from a deathstar, but almost anything but a deathstar is going to have problems with it, if you kill a bunch they can still come back in pleanty, plus if the Dlord is in front of enemy fire he can just get the little guys to jump in the way of plasma This unit has made guardsmen piss themselves.

It seems to me and of the AP 4 or less pie-plates (there are many) would have a pretty easy time with that the turn they DSed in.

That's why you remove those weapons post haste prior to them coming in. If you can, of course.

 Kevin949 wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

Actually the one good thing about them in this edition is S6+ blast/template doesn't ID two bases anymore. So, there's that. Yay.

You made me double check, but no, they totally do, it says so right there under swarms on Pg 43 that they take double wounds from blasts and templates, and Str 6 will still double them out. Why did you think they didn't?

There's another post on this in some other thread but the wound is doubled AFTER it's taken out of the wound pool so both wounds go on the same base. the extra wound does not go back into the wound pool because it's doubled after allocation, so only one base is ID'd per Str6+ blast/template.

Err....I'm not buying it. For one thing, if all the saves are the same, you "allocate" them after saves are made, so you make the saves (none), double the wounds, and then each wound kills a whole base. I suppose RAW an IC could mess with that by changing the order, when saves are different you allocate, then roll saves, but besides being pretty clearly against RAI, you 'd be using an expensive IC to protect a much cheaper scarab squad from one very specific form of attack. (the fact that wounds are allocated, before, or after, saves, depending upon their homogeneity is one page 15)

Anyway, YMDC is funny place probably best not pursue it here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kevin949 wrote:
That's why you remove those weapons post haste prior to them coming in. If you can, of course.

And that's what the game is made of. But most of my lists I wouldn't be terribly worried about it.

Except that they're going to lose combat, and have a decent chance to run. Which means no WBB.

False. A.) They are unlikely to lose CC by more then a wound or two, and only the first round at that, so are they don't really have a "decent chance to run".
B.) Terms can't sweeping advance, and therefore RP won't be removed.

Oh dear, anyone else remember the "why flayed ones are good and you are not" thread that ShadarLogoth ranted his way through. Entertaining reading!

When 6th arrived I put my genestealers back on the shelf and I think that any marginal use FOs had has gone the same way.

S4/T4,4+ armour save, no grenades, no rending. Generally getting a 5+ cover save for 1-2 rounds of shooting before they can assault and then suffering overwatch.

I can't see how anyone thinks they do well against terminators. How? Any lightning claws rip right through them and then their lack of rending makes the 2+ armour save too good for them. Assault into cover and they go at the same time as the power fists/thunder hammers. Then if there's any alive they don't have fearless.

Vehicles? No rending and no grenades again.

LOL@ranted. I guess that's one way to describe making salient points that people who don't actually use the units or understand the mechanics behind them willfully ignore.

The most common variety of Term have an Initiative 1 weapon. TH/SS terms in particular are a very good match up for Flayed Ones. If you had really read with competent comprehension the thread you are alluding to this wouldn't have to be pointed out to you again. Flayed Ones couldn't care less about assaulting through cover. Torrent of wounds is just as viable against 2+ armor save as AP2/1. Most people know this already...

You don't need rending to kill vehicles. It's 6th edition. You need on average 8 FO bases to wreck 95% of the vehicles that are actually fielded. 95% of Dreadnoughts field are the pewpew variety, and they don't want to be in CC with you in the first place. Mentioning rending and grenades just demonstrate your lack of knowledge and understanding on the issue.

The rest of the vehicles are irrelevant, as are the fliers, for the exact same reason as they are irrelevant for every other foot based unit in the game that can't deal directly with them.

That's all under the naive assumption that all 20 make it to combat. The whole reason they suck is because they have no shooting options and deep strike, and combo with WTF written all over it.

Deep Strike is one of their 3 deployment options, and the one least utilized. The only naive assumption is you thinking your going to easily deal with 20 Flayed Ones without dedicating an imbalanced portion of your firepower toward that threat.

Flayed Ones are simply not good. They cannot win combats very easily because they have mediocre stats and hit second. Their toughness means little when they have to take morale checks and are easily swept, so they make poor tarpits. You are left with a foot-slogging infantry unit whose only useful function is assaulting specialized shooting infantry and vehicles. Warriors can perform both of those tasks better for the same cost with the bonus of being scoring.

Yet another person wishing to school me on the unit I have been using for almost a year now over the course of 50+ games. They can handle plenty in assault. They can also be deployed virtually anywhere on the battlefield. They perform numerous rolls not duplicated by Warriors. Denying is plenty sufficient when you combine it with the tactical flexibility of deployment options available to them.

It seems to me and of the AP 4 or less pie-plates (there are many) would have a pretty easy time with that the turn they DSed in.

That's why you Run. It's been in the game for about 7 years now. Check it out.


I've missed this. Love debating some Flayed Ones on the intertrons.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

Actually the one good thing about them in this edition is S6+ blast/template doesn't ID two bases anymore. So, there's that. Yay.

You made me double check, but no, they totally do, it says so right there under swarms on Pg 43 that they take double wounds from blasts and templates, and Str 6 will still double them out. Why did you think they didn't?

There's another post on this in some other thread but the wound is doubled AFTER it's taken out of the wound pool so both wounds go on the same base. the extra wound does not go back into the wound pool because it's doubled after allocation, so only one base is ID'd per Str6+ blast/template.

Err....I'm not buying it. For one thing, if all the saves are the same, you "allocate" them after saves are made, so you make the saves (none), double the wounds, and then each wound kills a whole base. I suppose RAW an IC could mess with that by changing the order, when saves are different you allocate, then roll saves, but besides being pretty clearly against RAI, you 'd be using an expensive IC to protect a much cheaper scarab squad from one very specific form of attack. (the fact that wounds are allocated, before, or after, saves, depending upon their homogeneity is one page 15)

Anyway, YMDC is funny place probably best not pursue it here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kevin949 wrote:
That's why you remove those weapons post haste prior to them coming in. If you can, of course.

And that's what the game is made of. But most of my lists I wouldn't be terribly worried about it.

You're thinking of when you determine how many wounds there are. You don't double the wounds in the wound pool, nothing has technically been inflicted at that point, the swarms rule doesn't kick in until the swarm "has suffered an unsaved wound" and it's not suffering a wound until it is allocated to the model.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Except that they're going to lose combat, and have a decent chance to run. Which means no WBB.

False. A.) They are unlikely to lose CC by more then a wound or two, and only the first round at that, so are they don't really have a "decent chance to run".

Your ass is False. I don't see in what world that is true. They hit about the same as an ork. You'll take a little more than half as much damage in return, but you cost 3 times (literally) as much, and the orks are usually fearless and score, and if you want to tool them up with characters, the orks are better at that too.

Orks are pretty fighty, but I know all sorts of things that will beat orks just fine by a pretty wide margin....it's just that again,t he orks are cheap, scoring, fearless. You are none of those things.

B.) Terms can't sweeping advance, and therefore RP won't be removed

.

Yes, I'm aware. So that's exactly one thing that won't wipe you clear away.

Oh dear, anyone else remember the "why flayed ones are good and you are not" thread that ShadarLogoth ranted his way through. Entertaining reading!

LOL@ranted. I guess that's one way to describe making salient points that people who don't actually use the units or understand the mechanics behind them willfully ignore.

I am starting to think you thrive on the wrong kind of attention. You sound a little like Stellek. Are you Stellek? Don't be like Stellek. If you are Stellek....well, still don't be like Stellek.

That's all under the naive assumption that all 20 make it to combat. The whole reason they suck is because they have no shooting options and deep strike, and combo with WTF written all over it.

Deep Strike is one of their 3 deployment options, and the one least utilized. The only naive assumption is you thinking your going to easily deal with 20 Flayed Ones without dedicating an imbalanced portion of your firepower toward that threat.

So.......your plan is to walk to me? You're exactly as tough as a Necron warrior. Warriors are kinda tough, worth their points, but I wouldn't exactly say I needed an "imbalanced" portion of points to kill them. I'm probably not that worried about you infiltrating right next to my tender bits, but even if you did, you're still 18" away and I get to shoot you for at least 1 turn. Probably more.

That's why you Run. It's been in the game for about 7 years now. Check it out.

OMG, really? I had no idea. I'm sure that will totally protect me from all area effect weapons from now on!

I remember when I used to have Tyrannofexes. I stopped taking them to competitive tournaments after awhile because they were horrible. Eventually, I stopped playing them at my local game store as well, but for the opposite reason... they were too powerful. The experienced players at the state GT's knew how to handle them, but the 30+ people around my area couldn't and I stated to get a rep as TFG who brings broken units so he can win.

This flayed one debate reminds me of that.

ShadarLogoth, if you want to actually convince people and change their minds, you should start posting battle reports where your flayed ones are winning competitive GT's and such for you; that's the best way to make people see your point of view. Beating local people over the head with them and saying how amazing the models are won't get you very positive reactions from anyone

Man, no reason to get all excited and bitter just because you were wrong about something.

Your ass is False.

Cute.

I don't see in what world that is true.

Precisely my point. Your perception doesn't match reality.

They hit about the same as an ork. You'll take a little more than half as much damage in return, but you cost 3 times (literally) as much, and the orks are usually fearless and score, and if you want to tool them up with characters, the orks are better at that too.

Check your math, I don't think the term "literally" is being used accurately in this case. However, Commandos are a much better comparison. Also, 4+/RP and true strength 4 make a bigger difference then you seem to realize. Orcs who die before they get to combat don't kill much of anything, generally speaking. Fair point on the characters though, however the Flayed Ones come standard with all the tools they need to accomplish their task.

Orks are pretty fighty, but I know all sorts of things that will beat orks just fine by a pretty wide margin....it's just that again,t he orks are cheap, scoring, fearless. You are none of those things.

Flayed Ones are resilient, and have every deployment option in the game available to them. Denying and Leadership 10 are generally quite sufficient, and the Orcs Fearless doesn't last forever.

Note, not that there is anything wrong with Orcs. They have some clear advantages, as you have demonstrated. But you seem to wish to ignore they their disadvantages.

Yes, I'm aware. So that's exactly one thing that won't wipe you clear away.

It's also widely considered one of the best CC units in the game. I guarunte you that your average opponent will have many more units that Flayed Ones can handle in CC then not. I know this because I actually use the unit. A lot. Also, on the absolutely rare occasion that your opponents list is full of bad matchups for the Flayed Ones, they can still Infiltrate/Outflank/DS their way to a Table Quarter or objective, gtg, and completely justify their existence. Again. Flexible deployment options are the key ingredient here.

I am starting to think you thrive on the wrong kind of attention. You sound a little like Stellek. Are you Stellek? Don't be like Stellek. If you are Stellek....well, still don't be like Stellek.

Ouch. I'm the anti-thesis of Stelek. Stelek thinks there are like 4 viable units in the entire game and everything else is useless. I'm not craving for any kind of attention, I just find it humorous when people are so absolutely sure about things that they obviously don't understand. Notice how the two other people that have posted on this thread and have actually used the unit have a different opinion then you. This is generally a good indication that your pre-conceived notions are wrong.

So.......your plan is to walk to me? You're exactly as tough as a Necron warrior. Warriors are kinda tough, worth their points, but I wouldn't exactly say I needed an "imbalanced" portion of points to kill them. I'm probably not that worried about you infiltrating right next to my tender bits, but even if you did, you're still 18" away and I get to shoot you for at least 1 turn. Probably more.

Yeah, they're exactly as tough as one of the most resilient, point for point, units in the game. Some would consider that a good thing. Warriors, although can be properly tooled to be used aggresively, are a bit of a liability in this roll. Not so much with the Flayed Ones. Also, again, if you're shooting one of my most resilient units, you're not shooting my Wraiths, or my Warriors for that matter. That's fine by me. Shoot my bullet magnets. That's kind of why they are their.

OMG, really? I had no idea. I'm sure that will totally protect me from all area effect weapons from now on!

The average run distance is more then adequate to spread out after a DS. I'm not sure what you are debating here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShadarLogoth, if you want to actually convince people and change their minds, you should start posting battle reports where your flayed ones are winning competitive GT's and such for you; that's the best way to make people see your point of view. Beating local people over the head with them and saying how amazing the models are won't get you very positive reactions from anyone

TK has basically a monopoly on the most respected events in the US right now and people still think Njal is "non-competitve." People will move the goal posts more often then not then admit when their pre-conceived notions are wrong. It's not my job to prove anything to anyone. All I can do is elucidate when peoples opinions are wrong, it's up to them whether they wish to embrace humility or hubris, it really makes no difference to me.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Man, no reason to get all excited and bitter just because you were wrong about something.

I don't see in what world that is true.

Precisely my point. Your perception doesn't match reality.

Well, this sounds like the time for mathhammer, you made the initial claim, back it up. Against terminators, or purifiers or wyches, not something squishy smart people aren't going to let you assault.

Orks are pretty fighty, but I know all sorts of things that will beat orks just fine by a pretty wide margin....it's just that again,t he orks are cheap, scoring, fearless. You are none of those things.

Flayed Ones are resilient, and have every deployment option in the game available to them

.

Except for a decent truck.

So.......your plan is to walk to me? You're exactly as tough as a Necron warrior. Warriors are kinda tough, worth their points, but I wouldn't exactly say I needed an "imbalanced" portion of points to kill them. I'm probably not that worried about you infiltrating right next to my tender bits, but even if you did, you're still 18" away and I get to shoot you for at least 1 turn. Probably more.

Yeah, they're exactly as tough as one of the most resilient, point for point, units in the game.

I forget the exact mathhammer but I've done it before....I believe they work out to be exactly as durable as a marine, statistically. That's assuming WBB (which isn't going to happen if you kill them all) and ignoring that there's a heck of a lot more AP4 than AP3 out there. They're fine, but a little more delicate than a marine, in the end, given those two factors.

Also, again, if you're shooting one of my most resilient units, you're not shooting my Wraiths, or my Warriors for that matter. That's fine by me. Shoot my bullet magnets. That's kind of why they are their

.

Or you could just have more warriors, or wraiths? Both of which do their job better? And how are they your "most resilient"? They're just warriors, but with no guns! Literally every model you have (except scarabs) is tougher.

Well, this sounds like the time for mathhammer, you made the initial claim, back it up. Against terminators, or purifiers or wyches, not something squishy smart people aren't going to let you assault.

All this math exists in the previous thread on the topic, and although it was made in the 5th edition paradigm, for the most part the results haven't changed. Overwatch doesn't make much of a difference for the Flayed Ones, and the FC changes nerfed the Orcs, while the fearless changes were a buff. Anyway, in short, Flayed One have a statistical advantage against TH/SS and Pfist terms (say 5 versus 15). Wyches is a new paradigm in 6th, and while a large squad could potentially be problematic, the 5 in a venom and 9/10 in a raider variety are quite easily countered with 15+ Flayed Ones. Orcs blobs can take out Flayed One Blobs, but it tends to be a grind down to the last couple of guys either way. Truck boys just get slaughtered. Purifiers can be problematic certainly, as they are for any horde based CC unit, although now at least you have a 30% chance of them failing cleansing, so there is that. If they don't get Cleansing off, the Flayed Ones are more then a match for them.

I realize I'm just summarizing the math. I'll see if I can re-post some of these match ups soonish, but at work at the moment and need to keep my posts semi brief .

Except for a decent truck.

Heh, don't need to move far if you start off where you need to be in the first place .

I forget the exact mathhammer but I've done it before....I believe they work out to be exactly as durable as a marine, statistically. That's assuming WBB (which isn't going to happen if you kill them all) and ignoring that there's a heck of a lot more AP4 than AP3 out there. They're fine, but a little more delicate than a marine, in the end, given those two factors.

It's RP NOW! heh jk. I did like the WBB term better, much funner to pull the Arnold while rolling dice.

However, the more accurate simplification would be to say "there's a heck of a lot more AP everything else then there is AP 4 out there," because the Warriors and Flayed Ones have a point for point advantage on every other weapon profile, and IF they have cover, even AP 4 is basically a draw. Now, of course, that certainly is with RP, which doesn't last forever, but if you make the squads that need it the most big enough, you'll get plenty of mileage out of it. And this is before you add a Res Orb to the equation.

It would be interesting to see what portion of unsaved wounds get an RP roll (on average), but from my accumulated experience I would wager that it's probably 75 to 80% on larger squads, although less then 50% on MSU squads.

Or you could just have more warriors, or wraiths? Both of which do their job better? And how are they your "most resilient"? They're just warriors, but with no guns! Literally every model you have (except scarabs) is tougher.

Point for point basis. The only way to make an objective comparison between units. Also, you have to look at the full resiliency matrix (S3 through 10, AP 1 through -), and take into account blasts and templates and the like. For example, Wraiths get 2 T4 3++ wounds for (on average) 40 points/model (because roughly half tend to have WC). For 40 points you get 3 T4 4+/RP 5+ Flayed One wounds, that aren't vulnerable to instant death.

I already mentioned Flayed Ones clearly different role compared to Warriors. I feel comfortable getting deep into enemy lines with Flayed Ones, I wouldn't attempt this with Warriors. Wraiths are more lethal then Flayed Ones against most things, no doubt, but they're simply a different tool. I can GTG in some area terrain and camp an objective/table quarter all day with some Flayed Ones. I can't even attempt to GTG with some Wraiths, and even if I could it wouldn't be using them for their design role. I can spread out and cover a larger area with Flayed Ones. I can assault a transport, surround it, and kill two birds with one stone with Flayed Ones. I love my Wraiths, they just accomplish different tasks then the Flayed Ones do, and having both, at least in my opinion, is superior to having only the one (for the kind of list I run at least. For a primarily shooty list, where someone is looking for one counter assault unit, I would more then likely favor the Wraiths, generally speaking).


I'll see if I can post up some of the charts and math later tonight, perhaps tomorrow.

Here, as in the previous thread, you just won't ever post up actual lists/battle reports of your using FOs but are happy to criticise people on their theorycrafting and lack of usage.

40k is a points restricted game. As such, points spent on FOs are points that could be spent elsewhere - an extra FA slot, another HS, an extra troop etc. So, post your list so we can see how/where FOs are the most effective way of spending your points.

 ruminator wrote:
Here, as in the previous thread, you just won't ever post up actual lists/battle reports of your using FOs but are happy to criticise people on their theorycrafting and lack of usage.

40k is a points restricted game. As such, points spent on FOs are points that could be spent elsewhere - an extra FA slot, another HS, an extra troop etc. So, post your list so we can see how/where FOs are the most effective way of spending your points.

I did post my list in the previous thread. As per the Battle Reports, you know as well as I do that anecdotal evidence isn't going to convince anyone. Points spent on anything are points that can be spent on anything else. That's circular reasoning you are using to justify your pre-conceived notions.

IronfrontAlex wrote:15 flayed ones+1 Destroyer lord with MSS, Weave, and a res orb

Now above, that is far from a deathstar, but almost anything but a deathstar is going to have problems with it, if you kill a bunch they can still come back in pleanty, plus if the Dlord is in front of enemy fire he can just get the little guys to jump in the way of plasma This unit has made guardsmen piss themselves.

Did i mention he gives the whole unit preffered enemy?

Yea it makes Guardsmen piss themselves. Guess what? Everything does. This unit is terribly reliant on the D-Lord being alive and on front. This is easy to circumvent. And that's not to mention that it is a ~400pt unit that is mediocre at best. It can avoided easily by most armies, and shooting it to bits is easy. My Dreadknight isn't a deathstar, but he alone can destroy this unit with ease.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 ruminator wrote:
Here, as in the previous thread, you just won't ever post up actual lists/battle reports of your using FOs but are happy to criticise people on their theorycrafting and lack of usage.

40k is a points restricted game. As such, points spent on FOs are points that could be spent elsewhere - an extra FA slot, another HS, an extra troop etc. So, post your list so we can see how/where FOs are the most effective way of spending your points.

I did post my list in the previous thread. As per the Battle Reports, you know as well as I do that anecdotal evidence isn't going to convince anyone. Points spent on anything are points that can be spent on anything else. That's circular reasoning you are using to justify your pre-conceived notions.

Sorry, couldn't see the list in the previous thread. How about posting your 6th edition version anyway. Maybe a battle report ...

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Or you could just have more warriors, or wraiths? Both of which do their job better? And how are they your "most resilient"? They're just warriors, but with no guns! Literally every model you have (except scarabs) is tougher.

Point for point basis.

Umm, no? Warriors and Flayed Ones are exactly the same points, exactly the same cost.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Or you could just have more warriors, or wraiths? Both of which do their job better? And how are they your "most resilient"? They're just warriors, but with no guns! Literally every model you have (except scarabs) is tougher.

Point for point basis.

Umm, no? Warriors and Flayed Ones are exactly the same points, exactly the same cost.

I believe he was saying that, while every other unit is tougher/more resilient than FO's, they are all quite a bit more costly and have at least 1/2 the amount of guys in them. So, would you spend 450 points on ten sword/board lychguard or 260 points on twenty flayed ones? Heck, to even out the points, at 450 you would have... 34 or 35 flayed ones. So...that's what he was saying.

Yeah but. Lychguard.

Can Doomscythes now be added to that list thanks to the new FAQ? They can't hit flyers now, the unit type they were needed to take out most. Useless? Maybe not, but no longer an auto-include I reckon.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Can Doomscythes now be added to that list thanks to the new FAQ? They can't hit flyers now, the unit type they were needed to take out most. Useless? Maybe not, but no longer an auto-include I reckon.

Well, they just can't hit flyers with the death ray. But ya, the night scythe is a better option for anti-flyer now.

I agree that flayed ones are useless but deathmarks and tomb spyders are good. Deathmarks are good for killing terminators. They wound any unit they want on a 2+

Spyders can fix vehicles with fab claws and they can give you free scarabs

If anything is useless it is pratorian. They cost as much as terminatois but they suck. Same with lytchgaurds

Deathmarks using their mark against terminators is a waste, you want to REND them and the mark doesn't change when that happens.

Praetorians and lychguard suck? I might give you the praetorian bit, though they do have their place, but lychguard FAR from suck. Especially sword/board lychguard. You're mad if you think otherwise.

Can I just ask, just curious here I'm not disputing your point. What would you say sword/board Lychguard do in a Necron army to justify their 45pt a piece points cost? I haven't seen them used and I haven't used them personally so I'm curious to know.

Kevin949 wrote:You're mad if you think otherwise.

And why are people mad for thinking otherwise? They pay quite a premium for a combat unit that isn't very good at fighting.

 Rampage wrote:
Can I just ask, just curious here I'm not disputing your point. What would you say sword/board Lychguard do in a Necron army to justify their 45pt a piece points cost? I haven't seen them used and I haven't used them personally so I'm curious to know.

They're the only Invul save, RP, power sword unit in our codex (and if you count the royal court, the lords are 1/2 the unit size and I believe as expensive, if not slightly more depending if you take more than just HPS and Phase Shifter). Now that they can embark back on a night scythe as well, they're more mobile. Personal experience, I've never had a full unit die and I've had lulz with their shot bouncing shields as well. I know that power swords got a small nerf (so they're not the answer to termies like they were before) but they're still very resilient (on par or better than wraiths) and more killy than wraiths since they don't rely on rending and have more attacks, just a little less strength.


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 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:You're mad if you think otherwise.

And why are people mad for thinking otherwise? They pay quite a premium for a combat unit that isn't very good at fighting.

So...because the HPS/DS loadout doesn't break 2+ armor means they're bad at fighting now? They are as good at close combat as any other necron unit, but they can crack all but the toughest armor and don't have much to fear from power weapons and equivalent back.

I am running an Imotek/Nemesor list and was thinking of trying out a unit of flayed ones in that army. The ability to counter deploy after your enemies reserves could be helpful, as well as limiting the amount of shooting you are going to eat. Also using the aegis defense line and solar pulses/imotek to give them a nice cover save and sit them back as a defensive unit would not be bad(all this depends on who you are facing/what you want them to do of course). Or you can outflank them, giving you some much needed backfield threat. If only they could claim......still decent denial though.

I am not saying they are good but they do offer a nice versatility that is lacking in the necron book in many places.