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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 06:57:04
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Dakka Veteran
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Its been said by many that Imperial Guardsmen that know about Daemons would be executed while others say that it depends on the Inquisitor and the circumstance,
however, what about the Imperial Guard with the knowledge of the existence of Chaos(Chaos Space Marines, the idea of Chaos etc)
The manager and a worker at my local Gamesworkshop said that know guardsmen alive would ever know about chaos and that the moment they see a chaos space marine, they will be executed by an Inquisitor. He also said that that all of Cadians involved in the previous black crusades were likely executed and the planet was repopulated. In addition, all the Guardsmen involved in the 13th black crusade will be executed as well. Also, he said that Cadians are the only regiment that know about chaos and they will be executed too.
So, I'm wonder, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about the existence of Chaos in general?(not daemons, but chaos in general)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 07:02:04
Subject: Re:So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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The Guard may be allowed to know about Chaos in regards to chaos-corrupted human opponents and Chaos Space Marines.
Knowing about Daemons, however, results in their death.
That's how I've interpreted it anyway. If it was all of Chaos, then every single Guardsmen regiment fighting on Cadia as well as pretty much all of Cadia in itself would have to be destroyed after the Black Crusade.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 07:28:27
Subject: Re:So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Dakka Veteran
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BlaxicanX wrote:The Guard may be allowed to know about Chaos in regards to chaos-corrupted human opponents and Chaos Space Marines.
Knowing about Daemons, however, results in their death.
That's how I've interpreted it anyway. If it was all of Chaos, then every single Guardsmen regiment fighting on Cadia as well as pretty much all of Cadia in itself would have to be destroyed after the Black Crusade.
He said that they will be destroyed
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 07:32:55
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Fixture of Dakka
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As far as I remember, the short version is they can know about Chaos (pretty frickin' hard to hide it), but canne know of The Grey Knights and aren't supposed to get away with being exposed to Chaos* when/if the Chaos warriors they're fighting are defeated.
That's why the ones fighting in the Cadian Gate get away with it; because they're still fighting and can't go spreading it to other places in the Imperium.
*Exposure being actually encountering Chaos.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/07 07:33:35
Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 13:57:11
Subject: Re:So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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Can't hide the knowledge of chaos as a opponent in general, just cover up specific events.
How much one is allowed to know, depends on rank and duty.
Minions of chaos are usually identified to a degree by loyal subjects, so a bit of knowledge does exist.
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Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 17:27:08
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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In the Emperor's Gift, knowledge of Daemons outside of Astartes and the Inquisition is verboten.
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 17:29:15
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
Third ditch from the left, Istvaan V
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I Gaunt's Ghosts, they know very well about Cultists and Chaos Space Marines.
No daemons though.
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Place your faith in your warmachines
Blood for the Blood God!!!!!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!!!!!
AND MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES!!!!!
600pts
600pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 17:39:37
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Colonel-Commissar wrote:I Gaunt's Ghosts, they know very well about Cultists and Chaos Space Marines.
No daemons though.
When the Guard retook Gereon there was a Bloodthirster.
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DA 4000 points W/L/D 6e 3/2/0
IG 1500 points W/L/D 6e 0/2/0
And 100% Primed! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 17:45:29
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Wing Commander
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This sounds (and seems) silly to me.
Knowing about Chaos? Of course, how else would they fight against it? Exposure (and, therefore, possible corruption) to Chaos... well, that sounds much more reasonable - but still extreme in Cadia's case.
The IOM needs Cadia, and they're more than aware of their job. I suppose that Ordo Hereticus just keeps an extra pair of eyes on those Imperial assets who have frequent and/or strong encounters with Chaos forces. After all, it is their job.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/07 17:46:34
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 17:53:11
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Anfauglir wrote:This sounds (and seems) silly to me.
Knowing about Chaos? Of course, how else would they fight against it? Exposure (and, therefore, possible corruption) to Chaos... well, that sounds much more reasonable - but still extreme in Cadia's case.
The IOM needs Cadia, and they're more than aware of their job. I suppose that Ordo Hereticus just keeps an extra pair of eyes on those Imperial assets who have frequent and/or strong encounters with Chaos forces. After all, it is their job.
And honestly this is probably the biggest job of commissar's, looking for taint. A cowardly unit might lose a battle. A Corrupted unit could make the IoM lose a sector.
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DA 4000 points W/L/D 6e 3/2/0
IG 1500 points W/L/D 6e 0/2/0
And 100% Primed! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 18:00:28
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Guelph Ontario
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More likely I think that Regiments that survive tours of duty against Chaos Forces are put under strict watch, and the minute a trooper tries to spread the word about Chaos, they are put to death as an example for the rest of the Regiment.
Why do you think that regiments never go home again? If they are fighting a campaign against a Chaos Incursion, most of them will die anyways, and those that survive will be monitored.
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Think of something clever to say. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 18:04:01
Subject: Re:So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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I too think that it's about the distinction between the mere concept of Chaos as the concept of an enemy (chiefly heretic cults sowing discontent, but also as a justification for culling mutants) and full-blown supernatural Daemonic incursions ravaging entire worlds.
"There are Daemons abroad in the universe, and the link that these entities have with the Warp is not a commonly known or understood phenomenon within the broader community of the Imperium. [...] What little awareness exists amongst the peoples of the Imperium is never openly or officially acknowledged. Tales of the Warp and its unpleasant inhabitants are dismissed as scaremongering or mere superstition. [...] The primary motivation for keeping knowledge of Daemons secret is to ensure that the greater population is not catastrophically disturbed by such revelations and driven to madness, despair and mass civil unrest through the knowledge of them. There is a world of difference between understanding that there are vile, antipathetic alien species at large in the universe and knowing that one's immortal soul is at risk from predation by unholy daemonig entities from a hellish dimension a mere thought away from our own. Also, as dangerous as Warp travel may be perceived to be, if the general populace was to realise that it was, in fact, through a realm inhabited by Daemons, it is unlikely that anyone would willingly submit themselves to such a means of transport or trust any of the astropathic messages sent through it. [...] The bearers of this knowledge are few, and they share this information reluctantly. The Inquisition and their erstwhile allies, the Grey Knights, are among the tiny number of humans who are allowed to know of the Daemons and their evil ways. Most others who come into contact with them are culled to prevent both the promulgation of knowledge and the possible spread of daemonic taint. If they are of sufficient value to the Imperium, they are mind-wiped to erase all memories of the encounter."
-- 6E rulebook, p404
Other than that, keep in mind that lack of canon means you may find conflicting information throughout the various origins of sources. A novel may not necessarily be 100% in line with what a GW Codex says, and vice-versa. Both are possible interpretations of the setting and it falls to you as the individual player to pick what you prefer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 18:18:09
Subject: Re:So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Xeno-Hating Inquisitorial Excruciator
Classified, vermilion level clearance required.
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The Imperial Guard are not permitted to have knowledge of demons, however all other minions of chaos including traitor marines are known to them. If a regiment of the Imperial Guard does end up fighting against daemons, then what will happen to them once the conflict is over varies. If the regiment is recently formed with limited experiance then excution of the entire regiment is standard procedure. If the regiment is more experianced and well known throughtout the Imperium then instead of execution they will have a mind cleansing operation so that they have no memory of the conflict what so ever. Of course if any chaos taint is evident in the regiment or if the memories of the horrors that they endured is ingrained to deep into their pysche to erase then they will be excuted as per normal. A mind cleansing procedure is even sometimes used on Space Marines who have participated in the conflict as well, although this rare and reserved for only the most horrifying battles against chaos.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 18:39:14
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor
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The best baseline is probably what happened to the IG who fought in the first war for Armageddon. They'd borne witness to a fullscale Chaos invasion including lots of Daemons (even a Daemon Primarch!).
They weren't killed outright, but were sterilised and put into gulags where they forced to help rebuild the planet they defended.
Space Marines present in such an invasion are usually mindwiped and then retrained, being too valuable to be treated so harshly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 20:24:22
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Wing Commander
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Bran Dawri wrote:
Space Marines present in such an invasion are usually mindwiped and then retrained, being too valuable to be treated so harshly.
Whoa, woah... what?
The humble Guardsman not being able to handle daemons is one thing, sure. But Astartes being "mindwiped" (and retrained!!!)? WTH? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. At all.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/07 20:25:34
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 20:50:49
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Mutating Changebringer
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Anfauglir wrote:Bran Dawri wrote:
Space Marines present in such an invasion are usually mindwiped and then retrained, being too valuable to be treated so harshly.
Whoa, woah... what?
The humble Guardsman not being able to handle daemons is one thing, sure. But Astartes being "mindwiped" (and retrained!!!)? WTH? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. At all.
Yeah it's stupid. You must hate the GK codex.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 21:08:13
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Once again, Siege of Vraks.
No mention of any Kriegsman getting slaughtered, and it is explicitely said that some of them charged/fell back before that big bloodthirsters whose name I can't write.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/07 22:01:02
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Bobthehero wrote:Once again, Siege of Vraks.
No mention of any Kriegsman getting slaughtered, and it is explicitely said that some of them charged/fell back before that big bloodthirsters whose name I can't write.
That's a Forgeworld book, though, to which what I mentioned above would apply ( IA also wants to tell me there's a Sororitas Order using the colour blue in their heraldry).
Different interpretations. Pick one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 01:21:48
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Lynata wrote:Bobthehero wrote:Once again, Siege of Vraks.
No mention of any Kriegsman getting slaughtered, and it is explicitely said that some of them charged/fell back before that big bloodthirsters whose name I can't write.
That's a Forgeworld book, though, to which what I mentioned above would apply ( IA also wants to tell me there's a Sororitas Order using the colour blue in their heraldry).
Different interpretations. Pick one.
What's wrong with the colour blue?
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Iron Warriors 442nd Grand Battalion: 10k points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 01:34:09
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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Coolyo294 wrote: Lynata wrote:Bobthehero wrote:Once again, Siege of Vraks. No mention of any Kriegsman getting slaughtered, and it is explicitely said that some of them charged/fell back before that big bloodthirsters whose name I can't write.
That's a Forgeworld book, though, to which what I mentioned above would apply ( IA also wants to tell me there's a Sororitas Order using the colour blue in their heraldry). Different interpretations. Pick one.
What's wrong with the colour blue? Its a boy colour
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/08 01:34:33
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 01:41:36
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Wrong, IT used to be considered a girls color because it was a calming color.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 01:47:08
Subject: Re:So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
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Because blue is a "sad" color and Sororitas are never sad?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 01:50:04
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Tunneling Trygon
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What about Gaunt's Ghosts?
Their primary enemy were Chaos Cultist and some CSM (Though, fighting these would probably not led to an execution)
There have been instances where the men from Tanith have fought Daemons (IIRC, not powerful ones) however, if fighting against Daemons was call for execution were cause for execution, the Tanith probably all would have been killed off towards the end of the first major battle in book one.
I believe that some guardsmen get mind-wipes depending on their exposure, and civilian mind-wipes and executions on planets where Chaos has invaded is standard practice.
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Hive Fleet Aquarius 2-1-0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527774.page |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 01:50:55
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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hotsauceman1 wrote:Wrong, IT used to be considered a girls color because it was a calming color.
Well its not wrong in terms of the current times. Blue for boys pink for girls is still a thing. It doesn't matter where it started, it wasn't that serious a comment, more of a joke anyway. Jeez.
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I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 02:20:32
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge
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Bobthehero wrote:Once again, Siege of Vraks.
No mention of any Kriegsman getting slaughtered, and it is explicitely said that some of them charged/fell back before that big bloodthirsters whose name I can't write.
Yeah, but fluff wise I can't see a true korpsman falling to chaos, there to cool for that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 02:25:50
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine
The Top of the World, Lighting up the Night
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kinratha wrote: Bobthehero wrote:Once again, Siege of Vraks.
No mention of any Kriegsman getting slaughtered, and it is explicitely said that some of them charged/fell back before that big bloodthirsters whose name I can't write.
Yeah, but fluff wise I can't see a true korpsman falling to chaos, there to cool for that.
Knowing the Death Korps, they'd prolly suggest execution to be on the safe side.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 04:06:55
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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Anfauglir wrote:Bran Dawri wrote:
Space Marines present in such an invasion are usually mindwiped and then retrained, being too valuable to be treated so harshly.
Whoa, woah... what?
The humble Guardsman not being able to handle daemons is one thing, sure. But Astartes being "mindwiped" (and retrained!!!)? WTH? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. At all.
Ya seeing as the whole Imperium was almost torn apart by chaos space marines trying to stop more being corrupted makes no sense at all.
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3200 points > 5400 points
2500 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 04:50:30
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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They know about "heretics" who worship forbidden and dark powers. That's about it.
Not all Guardsmen who fight Chaos are automatically purged either, it's a bit of a case-by-case basis and usually purges happen from major Daemonic incursions.
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My Armies:
5,500pts
2,700pts
2,000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 05:08:02
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Coolyo294 wrote:What's wrong with the colour blue?
It's just not one they use. It's either red, black, white or any combination thereof - those are the only colours in use by the Sisterhood, specifically pointed out by GW. Whichever Forgeworld writer made up the "blue" Order simply either didn't know or didn't care.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/08 05:08:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/08 05:21:28
Subject: So wait, is the Imperial Guard allowed to know about Chaos?
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Colonel-Commissar wrote:I Gaunt's Ghosts, they know very well about Cultists and Chaos Space Marines.
No daemons though.
They run into a daemon literally within the first couple of chapters of the first book. It possesses a guardsman who touched a tainted object and he turns into this 15 foot tall killing machine. None of the guardsmen who survived the encounter were executed afterwards. They've also fought against daemons several other times in the first 3 books, and Gaunt himself even killed one in hand to hand combat at one point.
Heck, they knew about daeomons the day they left their homeworld. They had to fight daemons and the possessed cultists/marines the whole way out
So there's definitely some inconsistency here. And I've only read the first 3 books. I'm sure they fight even crazier stuff later on.
The problem seems to be that literally every single author and fluff writer treats it differently. Some say all guardsmen die no matter what, and others treat it as a more commonplace thing, where they know about daemons, but not a lot, just that when they see them the gak has hit the fan and they're in serious trouble.
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'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
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