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Yes and No. I'd say I read most of the novels about anything imperial and you're right of course some authors go for the "huge battles on huge battlefields with huge explosions" kind of storyline and most of those are not worth reading. But the good ones Abnett, Farrer, Bowden, they submerge in a more lifelike and social layer of 40k, those are the novels that are rightfully called as such.
So I know there is more to 40k and those additional layers are what keeps me collecting, building, converting and sometimes even painting 40k miniatures long after quitting the game, but I'd still say it's very narrowed down by the dogma.
If you ask me with so many worlds in the Imperium there will be one of everything, a star wars like world covered in water with underwater cities (there was one in Eisenhorn) and everything else you can imagine, BUT that is not exactly canon and definitely not the standard view of an imperial world.
Most people (apart from some of the better writers for BL) don't have the balls to say "This is how I imagine it to be. It's an imperial world with a working eco-system and high technological standard.". No, it's all grey administratum buildings, slow decay, STC verhicles, mass produced las-guns (makes me think of Eisenhorn's navy edition pistol, that was cool, or even better, Mathew Farrer's "two-tone" in Junction, fantastic novel, read it) and the insatiable IG.
You're right there is more, but it's not common, you would have a hard time selling it to the average 40k player.


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Oh, btw, for great SM novels, read the NL cycle from Demski-Bowden, those are the best (C)SM novels I've read so far. It's a lot about the menial's life on board a chaos vessel and also shows, that even CSM have everyday problems and can retain a hint of humanity.

Well, the novels are sold here at all the major chain bookstores here in the US, so they have a nice distribution model at least to make it available to new players exploring, hungry for more details like you and I

I had to Google 'Sweetmeats" because I'd never ever heard that word in my life before reading Eisenhorn


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..And I'd eat a "hot grox bun" too, I don't know what kind of animal a Grox is, but it sounds good

I always imagine a grox to be a cross between a bison and a mammoth/elephant. Dont ask me why...

Quoting the Lexicanum here - "The Grox is a large, fast and aggressive reptilian animal originating from the Solomon system. When the system was absorbed into the Imperium, it was discovered the animal possessed many useful traits, such as the ability to survive in almost any environment and to thrive on even the most indigestible food. Grox meat itself is also extremely palatable and nutritious. Because of their value as livestock they have since been introduced to other worlds throughout the entire galaxy, so that the Grox is now the most common type of livestock animal throughout the Imperium.

The only drawback to the Grox is their aggressive and vicious temperament. They will usually charge any creature on sight, including other Grox. They are also large, fast and dangerous beasts, about five meters long and well-muscled. They are territorial and like their privacy, so attempting to herd Grox together would easily drive them into a rage. The solution used is to lobotomize most of the stock while keeping the breeding animals suppressed with electro-pulsers wired directly into their small brains. Even with these precautions accidents still happen, and Grox are usually kept on agri worlds and isolated from human settlements."

So there you go haha

R

But does it taste like chicken? Or Pork?

Well I've read Alligator tastes a bit like Chicken...so being reptilian maybe that one...but as its a completely fictonal creature it could taste like fking candyfloss for all I know Hehe

R

INFINITY!..sorry.

I don't know what they eat on the Infinity Worlds, sorry.

I would say that the 40k universe is like a sandbox, there is a central core of a story - the Heresy etc - and then after that basically anything goes. There are infinite planets and possibilities, and most other stories could even exist within it - for example you could say that Lord of the Rings exists on a planet somewhere in the 40k universe. (I would love to see those fething hobbits get eaten by Tyranids).

GW did an amazing job coming up with the central concept and over the past decades there have been some pretty good bits of writing fleshing it out. The basic concept of the Heresy and the Space Marine chapters is fantastic I would say, it's got every sci-fi trope thrown in, not to mention the Biblical good vs evil stuff. The subsequent universe in entropy - ruined grey buildings, endless armies of doomed guardsmen, etc - is a great backdrop for further stories but shouldn't be the only thing these stories are about.

The problem is that they don't have many writers doing anything original. This is clearly intentional, GW don't want to shake things up too much (just look at all the SM models they release), and I imagine most of the people that buy the books are quite happy reading about Space Marine battles etc. Dan Abnett is a good writer and certainly capable of doing more imaginative work than he does for BL (see Guardians of the Galaxy), but GW clearly know what they want from their writers. There should be better books though, but what are the odds GW ever commissions something that isn't a war novel involving a Space Marine or something similar? You just have to compare it to Iain M Bank's Culture universe (another all encompassing universe), there's no reason that GW couldn't have a few books like Look to Windward, say.

When I got into Dystopian Wars recently I found the fact that the universe is both highly restrictive and not very fleshed out to be a major turn-off. Probably all the vehicles should be painted one way, probably I am not allowed to fit chainsaws to my zeppelins. I think Infinity is likely less restrictive than Dystopian, but I am sure it is nothing like as free as 40k. I would rather be in the 40k universe where I can do whatever I want, more or less (although in the corner of 40k that is Necromunda there are some rules).

Sorry for the excessive OT but this is an area that interests me a lot.

No excuses for being off-topic! Your rambling is interrupting the massive flow of updates from R'n'B. Just kidding, 40k has a place in all our hearts/minds and I don't see why we wouldn't compare its fluff to other games like Infinity, not really off-topic if you think about it.
I can agree with pretty much everything you wrote, Brut. It is a sandbox, but like I said only few people have the guts/imagination to make use of it, sadly.
LotR transplanted into 40k? Far-fetched, but you made your point. Are there any reports of Horus ever saying things like "my precioussss..."?
Restrictive background is the worst thing for me. If I can't let my imagination roam, why would I want to play it? Certainly not in order to purely reproduce/relive somebody elses fantasies. I don't know what I'd call it, but I've got a tendency to rather go my own way with hobby stuff and I'd never pick up a game that restricts paint schemes or design too much, or I'd do my thing anyway.
My first batch of librarians (some of the first GW miniatures I ever painted) were painted scab red, because that's how they did it in my DA successor. If I wanted smurfs I'd play UM.
I never liked the strange blueish grey of the SW so mine had a proper dark grey and I didn't mind people saying they didn't look like SW. But that's what you get from most people "that's not how SW look, they are painted with space wolves grey, not codex grey", never think out of the box.

Maybe I'm just (a little/terribly) pervicacious...which allows to draw a line from 40k back to Infinity.
I don't like the Chandra specop and I'll make my own. Today my buddy and I payed our local store a visit and I had a close look at all the specops and decided that I'll stick with my plan to convert the Guifeng into my own version of a Chandra. Originally I thought the Vortex would be the best base model for my conversion, but the Guifeng is better in many ways.
I'll go into detail once the conversion is underway.

I think Infinity can also be a little bit restrictive, not in its fluff, but with its models or conversions of those. There are few conversions apart from weapon swaps, which is partly because people don't dare or don't know how to properly convert metal minis, but also because most people feel obliged not to mess with the dogma.

I'll not convert the hell out of my Aleph like I do with my munda stuff, but there will be changes to everything I dislike. To name a few: Dasyu sniper has a stupid pose. Mk2 sniper chills on a low wall.
Mk3 with spitfire is the most lovely model in the range apart from the cockroach elements of its armor and the sad fact, that rulewise it will not see much action. So I'm going to replace some of the strange design elements, like the antennae, the hair and the abdomen and and use it as my Asura with Spitfire. It even represents the rules better than the actual model, because it is more heavily armored and has a visor on it's helmet, that represents the MSV lvl2.
So it's this:

Instead of this:

I'm doing something very similar myself B...I'll be proxying 3 models with other ones I like better from the Aleph range...fk it, I mean it's your force you've gotta look at them everyday, so why not pick the models you actually like? I think as long as they 'make sense' to your opponant and have the right weapons etc displayed it shouldn't be a problem. I'll also be cutting those damn rabbit ears off the Yudbots haha

R

P.s. Tomorrow is the last day of my current Ebay purge, so I'll finally know how much cash I have to play with. I'm hoping to buy the lot in one go...but if not I'll still get some bits as I'm impatient now to get started!

 Ghostflame wrote:
I'm doing something very similar myself B...I'll be proxying 3 models with other ones I like better from the Aleph range...

Which ones?

I'll also be cutting those damn rabbit ears off the Yudbots haha

No cutting, the ears come seperately and I'm also not using those. Same with the maruts, it looks much better without some of its parts.

Tomorrow is the last day of my current Ebay purge, so I'll finally know how much cash I have to play with. I'm hoping to buy the lot in one go...but if not I'll still get some bits as I'm impatient now to get started!

Let's not talk about money, I've just spent 80€ on bases...

 Baiyuan wrote:
Which ones?

Not telling...you'll see

No cutting, the ears come seperately and I'm also not using those. Same with the maruts, it looks much better without some of its parts.

Ah that's good. I'm guessing there'll be holes to GS though right?

Let's not talk about money, I've just spent 80€ on bases...

I believe you just did dude. Hehe! Yeah amen to that...I think I'd have a nervous break-down if I totalled up the full costs of these projects!

R

 Ghostflame wrote:
Not telling...you'll see

That's just cruel, in that case I'll have to reconsider posting the PIPs of my Naga...

Ah that's good. I'm guessing there'll be holes to GS though right?

Evenly shaped dimples, I'll cover them, but one wouldn't have to.
Here, took a pic for you, because I'm not a secretive tease!

I believe you just did dude. Hehe! Yeah amen to that...I think I'd have a nervous break-down if I totalled up the full costs of these projects!

You know what I mean! You trying to make funds available makes me feel even worse about me spending money I know I'll need by the end of the year.

...And with a click of a button all my spare cash is gone haha...gotta love the internet...easy come, easy go. Anyways the good news is my force will be here soon so next update from Moi will be some eye candy.

For this project I'm gonna go down the 'build one, paint one' route as its a better way of working IMHO and will encourage me to paint/finish before moving on.

I'll start with the 'dull' ones first and move up so either a Netrod or Yudbot first with Deva Boss-Lady last!

Peace Out!

R

I meant to do the same, but it didn't work out that well. So far I've built, primed and started painting a dakini, zayin and naga, but since all represent different parts of the troops this was necessary to test out the scheme.

Otherwise I've been a good boy and resisted the urge to build more of the cooler models or even start one of the conversions. Whenever I'm not in the mood to continue painting I do preparative work on one of the other models.

I'm curious what your comments will be once you begin assembling your force, because they take a CRAZY amount of prepatory work. With all the teeny tiny details, a mould line, even the slightest, running around the whole miniature provides a whole evening of fun with your 400grain file and sandpaper. After two sessions my Mk3 proxy is ready for assembly now and I'm only using 50% of the components.

Now back to the bat cave... er painting table. Nananananana...

Made the final adjustments to my Campaign Paradiso order and once it arrives my collection will miss only three miniatures from the Aleph range.

Also had a closer look at Achilles, Patroclus and the only myrmidon I have so far and I'll have to duplicate their arms and make some conversions once I get there. Seems like this project will contain more conversions than expected...Go figure!

I've also started to think about using custom decals on my Aleph, but I'm not sure yet.

Painting progress is a bit slow, since it's a busy week, but I've painted some of the OSL on the chest of my naga and it's looking decent already.

Ghostflame, you know you are working too slowly when Baiyuan is making faster progress than you! Time to change things up a gear!

 Bruticus wrote:
Ghostflame, you know you are working too slowly when Baiyuan is making faster progress than you! Time to change things up a gear!

That's true, but I think he hasn't even got his miniatures yet. He'll catch up for sure, not just because I prefer a sedate pace when being creative, but also because I'm in the final stages of my studies and it's getting more and more stressful to handle it all at the same time.

In other news, I finished the OSL for the naga's chestpiece and eyes and I'm quite happy with it. Still a lot of shading and highlighting on the main surfaces to be done/improved, but I'm getting there.

 Bruticus wrote:
Ghostflame, you know you are working too slowly when Baiyuan is making faster progress than you! Time to change things up a gear!

Haha Oh what is this?! A hate campaign! Hey Brut how's the view from up there? When you're done, kindly get off my back yeah.

They're ordered mate, they'll be here soon and I will stop building stuff for a while after these are done and push my other projects through to an end, I'll have more free time soon...

I'd like to believe that all this stick you're currently giving me stems from being so inspired by my works that the fact that all of these projects are as yet unfinished is just too much to bear!

R

naa not Hate, we just pick on Baiyuan and his odd, but effective process because we like him

Well yeah I agree Baiyuan takes ages and never finishes anything...Haha (just messing)

Cheers for all the encouragement.

R

We've got a real multilateral bromance going on, huh?!
Dave, you could join the odd couple once you start working on your Infinity stuff.

With all the pressure I'm getting here, I'll try to have a short painting session before going to bed, but I'm legally wasted. And you should know, that if I commit suicide it's all your fault...
Just kidding. I am tired though...

I still have to finish that damn huge SeaView kit for review, I waited for the LEDs and resistors, now I have those, but do you think I can find any one of my 3 soldering irons? Hell no..I had to order a new soldering iron! You think you're uncomfortable and pressured to do hobby work, having deadlines like this really gets frustrating. The thing is, I get to pick from this huge list of free model kits each month to build and write reviews on, It's REALLY hard to say no to cool free plastic, but I have to, today I get this email saying "Dave,
The next list will have a Miniart diorama item as well as one of those really cool unmanned future fighting suits by Hasegawa!"

Grrrr! Too many ideas, never enough time. but no, you guys can have your bromance, thanks for the offer though

Do you mean the Maschinenkrieger line? I brought back three or four of those kits from a trip to china, they are obviously still sitting in the shelf though.

I'm utterly resistant to pressure. The hobby is not stressful to me and I like to keep it at that. That's what convinced me not to pick up an artistic job back when I "had to choose". I'd hate to be forced to channel my creativity in a direction where it doesn't flow at that time.
On the other hand deadlines help me to see things through and can put me in a little work frenzy.

I think that is what it is called..I'll have to pass, too much other free-paced stuff to do, only the IPMS-USA stuff pressures me a bit
..but it IS free Industry Swag


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....Can I play the crazy neighbor who is always in your apartment eating your food?

Sure if you pay for your own tickets to germany...

Showed my OSL on the naga to my fiancé and in her frank and supportive way she said "Did you paint that, or one of your pals? The face looks awful, looks like you overstepped a lot." "No no, that's intended, his eyes are glowing orange. Painting OSL is basicly intentional and controlled overstepping." "Looks like ordinary unintentional overstepping to me... and what's that green thing on his head?" "Er, glowing nightvision goggles." "Oh, I thought it's a green turban."
That's where I ended the conversation and decided I might have to reconsider marriage... Just kidding, she's only half that judgemental in real life, I think...

Back to more serious stuff, I had another look at some of my many Aleph models (no time for painting today) and decided on some more conversions.
In this context I can only recommend getting a wider range of miniatures to begin with, because there are some things that can be interchanged to great effect.
For example I think the Mk3 proxy hair is absolutely stupid (or ingenious if you dig that kind of manga aesthetics), same for the on the long braided plait on the dasyu hacker. But if you swap them, it looks soooooo much better.
This also applies to myrmidon arms etc.
I'll show pictures once I get to these models. (The proxy will be soon, I'm just waiting for MAS to finally send the fething bases )

Haha aw I love that German brutal honesty...

I played a gig once, it may have been Hamburg actually, and a chap came up to me after the show and said to me "Hey you played just now..."
I replied "Yeah. Did you enjoy the show?"
He smiled and said "No...um the sound was very bad, good bye." Haha brilliant!

I'm so keen to get stuck into this. Damn the postal service! I was hoping they'd arrive today but no...Hopefully they'll be here by the weekend.

R

That's funny, Vik is also always Brutally Honest..I love it! ....at times...j/k

Your Swiss neighbors (whom I work for) however, seem to all avoid honesty, responsibility, technical ability, common sense, basic human reasoning skills, logic and reality at all costs. Those Alps keep you safe!!

Yeah, she's a real keeper. Also I like how you automaticly seem to take her side in this and assume she's just honest. Looking forward to your actual opinion on the finished miniature.

Like in every other country there are huge differences in mentality between the different areas. Up here in Hamburg you find a different breed of Germans (I'm not saying better, because it's obvious... ), than in Munich or even Berlin.
Germans can be brutally honest sometimes and I normally appreciate it, but you also get your "lying through their teeth every fething second" majority.

Switzerland? Which part? The french part?

The Zurich part