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 MrMoustaffa wrote:

As for my impressions, rest in peace lumbering behemoth, you will be missed. I loved Leman russes with a battlecannon and a lascannon. They were so versatile and powerful. Now that lascannon is a 15pt paperweight sticking off the front. I have to rip apart at least 3 now

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed with that too. On the upside, triple HB LRMBT are back and any of the non-ordinance Leman Russes can now move and fire turret, hull and sponson weapons. The LRMBT got a bit nerfed, but the Exterminator seems to have gotten a boost.

 Kaldor wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
Removing the ability to take a 4+ Look Out Sir almost completely nerfs this unit, it's cost now significantly outweighs it's abilities, and I can't imagine a way to justify it's existence in any list. Purifiers come at a third of the price, and are just as effective in combat and shooting. Yay, let's make Purifier spam even more of a no brainer choice!

Not happy Jan.

Paladins became right priced instead of getting a ridiculous discount due to the fact that you had to do 11 wounds to remove one?

Purifiers are nice, but hardly as handy when staring down the barrel of a battle cannon or three.

Paladins were adequately priced as Characters. Being able to shunt wounds around on a 4+ made their extreme price justifiable, but at 55 points per model at a minimum NOT being able to shunt those wounds around makes them ridiculously overpriced.

And while Purifiers can't eat AP3 shots like Paladins can, they cost about a third of the price, have a much better psychic ability, can spam Razorbacks, and can take four psycannons per squad at 10 points each.

Blackmoor seems to enjoy the change, and he ran full out tournament lists with pallies.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Blackmoor seems to enjoy the change, and he ran full out tournament lists with pallies.

However well he does with Paladins, he'd do better with Purifiers

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Oh it seems they actually made it so heavy flamers need a 2 man squad for vets.

Was hoping it was a Forgeworld mistake :(

Are there new forgeworld faq's as well? Because that isn't mentioned in the regular FAQ for the IG codex.

As for my impressions, rest in peace lumbering behemoth, you will be missed. I loved Leman russes with a battlecannon and a lascannon. They were so versatile and powerful. Now that lascannon is a 15pt paperweight sticking off the front. I have to rip apart at least 3 now

However, ork battlewagons got better. Now, no matter what, when they tankshock they always do 1d6 hits. Even if the enemy unit passes its leadership check to move out of the way. That's pretty handy. However, somehow people get cover saves against them??? I have no idea how that works. Does that mean a deffrolla hitting an infantry unit in terrain let's the infantry have a cover save? Or that deffrollaing nob bikerz let's them use their cover save?

And then of course the big "nob squads are no longer characters." I understand why they did it, but it still makes me sad. Nobz in a battlewagon were on the fence before the faq, now they're not really worth the points at all. I feel like it's bikerz or nothing now :\ At least paladins and wolf guard don't have it anymore either.

Are you daft????? Its a heavy tank now......you can move six and shoot EVERYTHING full bs!!!! Not possible before in 5th or 6th

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
Removing the ability to take a 4+ Look Out Sir almost completely nerfs this unit, it's cost now significantly outweighs it's abilities, and I can't imagine a way to justify it's existence in any list. Purifiers come at a third of the price, and are just as effective in combat and shooting. Yay, let's make Purifier spam even more of a no brainer choice!

Not happy Jan.

Paladins became right priced instead of getting a ridiculous discount due to the fact that you had to do 11 wounds to remove one?

Purifiers are nice, but hardly as handy when staring down the barrel of a battle cannon or three.

Paladins were adequately priced as Characters. Being able to shunt wounds around on a 4+ made their extreme price justifiable, but at 55 points per model at a minimum NOT being able to shunt those wounds around makes them ridiculously overpriced.

And while Purifiers can't eat AP3 shots like Paladins can, they cost about a third of the price, have a much better psychic ability, can spam Razorbacks, and can take four psycannons per squad at 10 points each.

Blackmoor seems to enjoy the change, and he ran full out tournament lists with pallies.

I don't know if I'd say he 'likes' the change, its an absolute nerf.

However, he is saying its not as bad as we think it is.

 The Mad Tanker wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

As for my impressions, rest in peace lumbering behemoth, you will be missed. I loved Leman russes with a battlecannon and a lascannon. They were so versatile and powerful. Now that lascannon is a 15pt paperweight sticking off the front. I have to rip apart at least 3 now

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed with that too. On the upside, triple HB LRMBT are back and any of the non-ordinance Leman Russes can now move and fire turret, hull and sponson weapons. The LRMBT got a bit nerfed, but the Exterminator seems to have gotten a boost.

No only if you count as moving! Heavy tanks never count as moving....they can fire it all.

 sfshilo wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Oh it seems they actually made it so heavy flamers need a 2 man squad for vets.

Was hoping it was a Forgeworld mistake :(

Are there new forgeworld faq's as well? Because that isn't mentioned in the regular FAQ for the IG codex.

As for my impressions, rest in peace lumbering behemoth, you will be missed. I loved Leman russes with a battlecannon and a lascannon. They were so versatile and powerful. Now that lascannon is a 15pt paperweight sticking off the front. I have to rip apart at least 3 now

However, ork battlewagons got better. Now, no matter what, when they tankshock they always do 1d6 hits. Even if the enemy unit passes its leadership check to move out of the way. That's pretty handy. However, somehow people get cover saves against them??? I have no idea how that works. Does that mean a deffrolla hitting an infantry unit in terrain let's the infantry have a cover save? Or that deffrollaing nob bikerz let's them use their cover save?

And then of course the big "nob squads are no longer characters." I understand why they did it, but it still makes me sad. Nobz in a battlewagon were on the fence before the faq, now they're not really worth the points at all. I feel like it's bikerz or nothing now :\ At least paladins and wolf guard don't have it anymore either.

Are you daft????? Its a heavy tank now......you can move six and shoot EVERYTHING full bs!!!! Not possible before in 5th or 6th

You do realize that heavy tanks do nothing to allow you to fire other weapons at normal BS if you fire an ordnance weapon correct? This is important because two of the best variants are ordnance tanks, that were significantly boosted when you gave them a hull lascannon to take advantage of lumbering behemoth (which allows one other weapon to fire at normal BS even though you fire an ordnance weapon)

Now, we fire our ordnance weapon, and no matter what, all other weapons are snap firing. Which means that all those lascannons are borderline useless on the LRMBT and the demolisher. It did boost the exterminator, punisher, and the executioner, but they were not the main tanks you usually wanted to take, and are all more expensive at their peak than the demolisher and LRMBT were. We'll see if the buffs the non ordnance russes got are good enough to justify the change, but the fact that I have 4 regular battle tanks and only 2 exterminators means that I'm in for a rough change of pace.

Plus, we can't move 6" + 1d6" for lumbering behemoth to get cruising speed, and we can no longer flat out. While this may seem like a bizarre complaint, it's a big deal on big guns never tire. Now, you can no longer flat out to an objective late in the game to take it. You are now stuck at a max speed of 6" per turn, no matter what. So not only do the ordnance russes shoot less now, they're slower as well. Meanwhile, the non ordnance tanks got much shootier, and faster than before the faq. It's completely flipped around all the variants, and it'll take some tweaking to figure out which ones are good to take now...

I am overall in favour, but I thought that Tau Drones or Fenresian Wolves purchased by a character as a part of his wargear don't get to take part in Challenges with the character was the wrong call.

These are models that die at the end of the phase that their controlling character dies in, so they should have at least a chance to fight for their lives.

It seems to have fixed most of the major issues and at this point the rest are better addressed by new codices. Overall I'm quite happy with the way things turned out.

 Kaldor wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
Removing the ability to take a 4+ Look Out Sir almost completely nerfs this unit, it's cost now significantly outweighs it's abilities, and I can't imagine a way to justify it's existence in any list. Purifiers come at a third of the price, and are just as effective in combat and shooting. Yay, let's make Purifier spam even more of a no brainer choice!

Not happy Jan.

Paladins became right priced instead of getting a ridiculous discount due to the fact that you had to do 11 wounds to remove one?

Purifiers are nice, but hardly as handy when staring down the barrel of a battle cannon or three.

Paladins were adequately priced as Characters. Being able to shunt wounds around on a 4+ made their extreme price justifiable, but at 55 points per model at a minimum NOT being able to shunt those wounds around makes them ridiculously overpriced.

And while Purifiers can't eat AP3 shots like Paladins can, they cost about a third of the price, have a much better psychic ability, can spam Razorbacks, and can take four psycannons per squad at 10 points each.

I agree with you on the fact that purifiers are better, but I think paladins were just fine before the LoS rule was ever invented. I think it was changed more for the purpose of all of them being capable of challenges.

Just to be clear, because I'm trying to run through the process in my head, shooting at units now works like this:

Roll to hit and wound.

Take a dice for each wound. Allocate each dice to the relevant model. Take any saves and FnP rolls that model is entitled to. Move on to the next dice.

Repeat until every wound has been allocated and saves resolved.

And this applies to every unit that contains a character, or contains models with different saves.

Why on earth did they change that? Was there something wrong with the current system?

Hunchkrot wrote:
I agree with you on the fact that purifiers are better, but I think paladins were just fine before the LoS rule was ever invented. I think it was changed more for the purpose of all of them being capable of challenges.

Well, yeah. Before LoS was around, they could use different equipment to take advantage of wound allocation rules. Making them Characters streamlined that process, and made their extreme price-tag worthwhile. Without the ability to spread wounds around the squad, they lose the ability to do any job well enough to justify their cost.

Well, the LOS rule applied to a unit of characters was ridiculous in the first place. Now its gone and I can't say I'm unhappy with it.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the LOS rule applied to a unit of characters was ridiculous in the first place. Now its gone and I can't say I'm unhappy with it.

Everything in the game is an abstraction, and to my mind it was simply an abstraction that allowed characters and certain units to operate in a way that they should. Look Out Sir is a ridiculous mechanic if we assume that warriors are actually leaping in front of their leaders to take bullets for them, no matter how we implement it. But if we just assume it's like the inverse Ninja law; a way to let Characters act like Characters, and that rather than the warriors actually leaping in front of their leader one at a time to take a series of wounds it's just a case of the leader miraculously avoiding damage while the redshirt grunts around him bite the dust, then it makes a lot more sense.

I just realized it gave a small buff to the Mogul of the Rough Riders.

The Hunting lance is not a specific strength anymore, but instead grants +2, which means furious charge works with it now.

Found that kinda neat.

The Righeous Zeal nerf was uncalled for, especially seeing as Templars aren't exactly the best army around to start with. I'm starting to get the feeling that Templars are the Tyranid equivalent of the Space Marines in that the FAQs seemingly hate us these days.

Other than that completely bizarre change I'm very pleased with the FAQs.

 Dracofactory wrote:
Dude.... Klaives and Huskblades are now always AP2. Return of the Incubi killing off Termie squads! and Instant Death AP2! On Archons and Succubi! I'd make a thankful prayer to the god-emperor, but I'm afraid they'd turn to ashes in the air and ruin this beautiful aroma of dessicated corpses.

Good for you. Eldar got hosed in AP2 department. They even forbid banshees of ever having AP2.

 Mannahnin wrote:
I think I saw only two real errors; the swoop/glide typo and the ruling on Destructor.

How is Destructor ruling error? I think It is unneeded and is a punch below the belt to Eldar Warlocks, but how is it error?

Correct me if I'm wrong, does this mean that Fortune does not carry over the Archon even if Eldrad Fortuned the Eldar unit where the Archon is attached to?

Or did this just clear up the fact that Fortune and Guide cannot be directly cast on Dark Eldar Units?

Thanks!

Oh and I'm kinda Happy about it, clearing out most issues while still making some confusing haha. well not really. all good.

Still nothing on Necrons using "re-deployment" and Veil of Darkness with Deathmarks to mark every unit on the field as woundable on a 2+ by Deathmarks...


And the ever-increasing array of characters being kicked down to Init 1 with axe weapons is...annoying to say the least.

 Vaktathi wrote:

And the ever-increasing array of characters being kicked down to Init 1 with axe weapons is...annoying to say the least.

That's because they have power axes. Power axes are I1. The fact that WAAC try to exploit the power weapon rules is neither here nor there.

 Testify wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

And the ever-increasing array of characters being kicked down to Init 1 with axe weapons is...annoying to say the least.

That's because they have power axes. Power axes are I1. The fact that WAAC try to exploit the power weapon rules is neither here nor there.

The fact that you attribute motives to people is, however, quite disturbing.

 Testify wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

And the ever-increasing array of characters being kicked down to Init 1 with axe weapons is...annoying to say the least.

That's because they have power axes. Power axes are I1. The fact that WAAC try to exploit the power weapon rules is neither here nor there.

Not really my point.

These characters were designed around utilizing their higher initiative, and often are "lighter" SC's that lack the survivability of many purpose-built I1 SC's, and their fluff often notes or implies something about swiftness with striking and whatnot. They weren't designed or intended to be slow hitting models, and some go back nearly two decades.

They're then nerfed simply because of the particular blade type they were modeled with. I'd sure as hell not be happy if I routinely ran Kharn for instance.


EDIT: also noticed they didn't give Interceptor to Hydras, despite every other Skyfire unit, FW or GW, getting that apparently.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

And the ever-increasing array of characters being kicked down to Init 1 with axe weapons is...annoying to say the least.

That's because they have power axes. Power axes are I1. The fact that WAAC try to exploit the power weapon rules is neither here nor there.

The fact that you attribute motives to people is, however, quite disturbing.

I'm not apologising for calling people who give Howling Banshees a Power Axe and a Power Maul WAAC, if not actually breaking the rules.

GW has actually produced such models however, at least Axe equipped ones.

Fair enough, I do see your point I was just responding to the issue of power axes in general.

I think it's fair to say though that in the new Chaos 'dex there won't be any high Initiative charectors with power axes.

 mikkoboi wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, does this mean that Fortune does not carry over the Archon even if Eldrad Fortuned the Eldar unit where the Archon is attached to?

Or did this just clear up the fact that Fortune and Guide cannot be directly cast on Dark Eldar Units?

Thanks!

Oh and I'm kinda Happy about it, clearing out most issues while still making some confusing haha. well not really. all good.

Anyone? I just want to get a consensus.

 Testify wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

And the ever-increasing array of characters being kicked down to Init 1 with axe weapons is...annoying to say the least.

That's because they have power axes. Power axes are I1. The fact that WAAC try to exploit the power weapon rules is neither here nor there.

The fact that you attribute motives to people is, however, quite disturbing.

I'm not apologising for calling people who give Howling Banshees a Power Axe and a Power Maul WAAC, if not actually breaking the rules.

That's not what you did though. You called people who argued that Dante's axe was an Unusual Power Weapon WAAC.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

That's not what you did though. You called people who argued that Dante's axe was an Unusual Power Weapon WAAC.

It's pretty obvious what I was saying. Call "troll" if you like.

 Kaldor wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the LOS rule applied to a unit of characters was ridiculous in the first place. Now its gone and I can't say I'm unhappy with it.

Everything in the game is an abstraction, and to my mind it was simply an abstraction that allowed characters and certain units to operate in a way that they should. Look Out Sir is a ridiculous mechanic if we assume that warriors are actually leaping in front of their leaders to take bullets for them, no matter how we implement it. But if we just assume it's like the inverse Ninja law; a way to let Characters act like Characters, and that rather than the warriors actually leaping in front of their leader one at a time to take a series of wounds it's just a case of the leader miraculously avoiding damage while the redshirt grunts around him bite the dust, then it makes a lot more sense.

Fluff aside, I'm often facing WAAC rule lawyers. These guys are desparately searching for such kind of rules.

 mikkoboi wrote:

 mikkoboi wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, does this mean that Fortune does not carry over the Archon even if Eldrad Fortuned the Eldar unit where the Archon is attached to?

Or did this just clear up the fact that Fortune and Guide cannot be directly cast on Dark Eldar Units?

Thanks!

Oh and I'm kinda Happy about it, clearing out most issues while still making some confusing haha. well not really. all good.

Anyone? I just want to get a consensus.

It still does carry over to the Archon because he is a part of a Codex:Eldar unit.
It's "Fortune and Guide cannot be directly cast on Dark Eldar Units" only.

Macok wrote:It still does carry over to the Archon because he is a part of a Codex:Eldar unit.
It's "Fortune and Guide cannot be directly cast on Dark Eldar Units" only.

See I'm not so sure, if the Archon isn't a friendly Eldar model I don't think he does get the benefit. I'd need to check the wording on the power when I got home but it doesn't sound like the power affects him. It can be cast on a friendly Eldar unit(?) which is fine but Fortune isn't a "one model, all models" USR and the FAQ says he doesn't count.

The FAQ says he doesn't count as an Eldar model which I think are the only ones Fortune/Guide allow rerolls to. Thats my interpretation anyway.