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So I just read the new FAQs that were posted up today...

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570039a_Chaos_Space_Marines_v1.1.pdf

And I'm a bit confused by the changes .. or perhaps incompetence of contradictions or miscommunication, whatever the case may be ;P

1) Typhus' Manreaper is apparently no longer a "Force Axe" and thus making him strike at S4 (user) while still being Unwieldy? So he's S4 I1? really? =/

2) I don't suppose it follows the rules of "Daemon Weapons" being AP2 and +1 S, as I'm guessing that is 'only' for Lord with no Mark (kinda bad wording there)

3) A couple people mentioned in other thread's that Typhus' ability to use his 1 psychic ability per turn AND force weapon was removed, however .. for whatever reason I cannot find this in the FAQ, and it still states (from the old parts of the FAQ) that he can, which some pointed out as a contradiction. Can anyone confirm either way?

4) Abaddon is finally AP2 now? (also, is it +1 str or what? ie daemon weapon on an undivided lord)

5) Warptime is really reroll 'only' ALL dice or none at all? Was it always intended to be this way, or is this brand new? =(

6) I thought Daemon Princes were aloud to use more than one psychic shooting ability, simply for the fact that they can shoot more than once each turn, being MCs? But apparently that's (now) not the case..

7) So familiars dont add +1 PML .. but does Mark of Tzeentch? Is there anything else that does?

New FAQs just = more confusion lol, Any other big changes I'm missing?

I'm sure there's more I need to ask anyway .. Would appreciate any answers though, thanks in advance

1/2) Manreaper is an unweildy daemon weapon with the force rule. Nothing in those statements removes the fact that he has Mark of Nurgle and a Daemon Weapon. So he is S4 (4+ poison) +D6 attacks at AP2, at I1

7) MoT does not say that you gain +1PML, the sorcerer/DP entry just lets you buy another power if you have it.

 Beerfiend wrote:
2) I don't suppose it follows the rules of "Daemon Weapons" being AP2 and +1 S, as I'm guessing that is 'only' for Lord with no Mark (kinda bad wording there)

What bad wording? It specifically says Lord with no Mark.

5) Warptime is really reroll 'only' ALL dice or none at all? Was it always intended to be this way, or is this brand new? =(

6) I thought Daemon Princes were aloud to use more than one psychic shooting ability, simply for the fact that they can shoot more than once each turn, being MCs? But apparently that's (now) not the case..

Both old rulings. Only the stuff in magenta is new.

Abaddon HAS a mark, of CA, so no +1S AP2 for him. He is AP3

Familiars let you buy another power, they dont let you USE another power per turn, which is why they dont alter you PML. MoT DOES increase you PML because it alters how many powers you can use per turn.

If you have 5 powers but only can cqast one per turn you are PML. If you have 1 power but could cast 5 a turn you would be PML 5.

I just noticed one thing im guessing tzeentch daemon weapons are still ap3 as well since they were not mentioned.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Abaddon HAS a mark, of CA, so no +1S AP2 for him. He is AP3.

I think from the wording in Abbadon's rules it's pretty clear that he counts as not having a mark of chaos as far as his daemon weapon goes:
"...Abbadon counts as equipped with a Daemon Weapon that doubles his Strength (to Strength 8, as shown in his profile) instead of the normal +1..."

Furthermore the Daemon weapon rules refer to Lords with no "Mark of Chaos" which are defined on the table on page 25 as being MoK, MoN, MoT, MoS (with no mention of MoCA).

So there's a pretty good argument from both RAI and RAW for him being AP2.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Abaddon HAS a mark, of CA, so no +1S AP2 for him. He is AP3.

I think from the wording in Abbadon's rules it's pretty clear that he counts as not having a mark of chaos as far as his daemon weapon goes:
"...Abbadon counts as equipped with a Daemon Weapon that doubles his Strength (to Strength 8, as shown in his profile) instead of the normal +1..."

Furthermore the Daemon weapon rules refer to Lords with no "Mark of Chaos" which are defined on the table on page 25 as being MoK, MoN, MoT, MoS (with no mention of MoCA).

So there's a pretty good argument from both RAI and RAW for him being AP2.

some people will make the argument he's only ap3 still, i see it. but it wont be much longer untill all this changes again.

Is anyone going to comment on the Combi-bolter giving you a Twin-linked Bolter on your Infantry? Holy crap that sounds awesome.

 Captain Antivas wrote:
Is anyone going to comment on the Combi-bolter giving you a Twin-linked Bolter on your Infantry? Holy crap that sounds awesome.

which we already had as twinlinked bolters.

 Captain Antivas wrote:
Is anyone going to comment on the Combi-bolter giving you a Twin-linked Bolter on your Infantry? Holy crap that sounds awesome.

Sarcasm? I'm having trouble finding anything that can buy a combi-weapon, that can't also buy a twin-linked bolter for 5 points cheaper. You don't get the twin-linked when you take a useful combi-weapon, like a combi-melta. You take either a Combi-melta, combi-flamer, combi-plasma, or a combi-bolter (which is the same as taking a cheaper twin-linked bolter)

I don't see in the FAQ where it makes typhus i1, his weapon is not unwieldy so he's ap2 striking at i4 along with the rest of his rules

As well abaddon is ap 2 it says: daemon weapons, daemon weapons(lord without mark of chaos)

So daemon weapons are ap 2 in general because of the ,

Sorry I didn't realize unwieldy was on the top of the page for typhus

Ub3rb3n wrote:
I don't see in the FAQ where it makes typhus i1, his weapon is not unwieldy so he's ap2 striking at i4 along with the rest of his rules

As well abaddon is ap 2 it says: daemon weapons, daemon weapons(lord without mark of chaos)

So daemon weapons are ap 2 in general because of the ,

top of the sceond colum.

Cyvash wrote:

Ub3rb3n wrote:
I don't see in the FAQ where it makes typhus i1, his weapon is not unwieldy so he's ap2 striking at i4 along with the rest of his rules

As well abaddon is ap 2 it says: daemon weapons, daemon weapons(lord without mark of chaos)

So daemon weapons are ap 2 in general because of the ,

top of the sceond colum.

I see it now, sorry

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

 Captain Antivas wrote:
Is anyone going to comment on the Combi-bolter giving you a Twin-linked Bolter on your Infantry? Holy crap that sounds awesome.

Sarcasm? I'm having trouble finding anything that can buy a combi-weapon, that can't also buy a twin-linked bolter for 5 points cheaper. You don't get the twin-linked when you take a useful combi-weapon, like a combi-melta. You take either a Combi-melta, combi-flamer, combi-plasma, or a combi-bolter (which is the same as taking a cheaper twin-linked bolter)

Yes, very sarcastic for the reasons you posted. Most useless addition ever.

Ub3rb3n wrote:

Cyvash wrote:

Ub3rb3n wrote:
I don't see in the FAQ where it makes typhus i1, his weapon is not unwieldy so he's ap2 striking at i4 along with the rest of his rules

As well abaddon is ap 2 it says: daemon weapons, daemon weapons(lord without mark of chaos)

So daemon weapons are ap 2 in general because of the ,

top of the sceond colum.

I see it now, sorry

its all good, though its redundant to be a force axe, since its a daemon weapon, that wounds on a 4+ always so you could never claim the strength bonus of the axe.

Cyvash wrote:

its all good, though its redundant to be a force axe, since its a daemon weapon, that wounds on a 4+ always so you could never claim the strength bonus of the axe.

Being STR 5 with poison is actually really nice in 6th. Poison wounds on the fixed roll, unless a lower roll would be required by just comparing STR and T. It also gives a reroll for failed to wound rolls if the attacker's STR is equal or higher than the victim's T.

 metalboxes wrote:

Cyvash wrote:

its all good, though its redundant to be a force axe, since its a daemon weapon, that wounds on a 4+ always so you could never claim the strength bonus of the axe.

Being STR 5 with poison is actually really nice in 6th. Poison wounds on the fixed roll, unless a lower roll would be required by just comparing STR and T. It also gives a reroll for failed to wound rolls if the attacker's STR is equal or higher than the victim's T.

i didnt know that, i never looked at poisoned weapons until now.

You can also use S5 aginst vehicles.

Abaddon - he still has an unusual weapon, not a usual daemon weapon.

 Lightcavalier wrote:
1/2) Manreaper is an unweildy daemon weapon with the force rule. Nothing in those statements removes the fact that he has Mark of Nurgle and a Daemon Weapon. So he is S4 (4+ poison) +D6 attacks at AP2, at I1

7) MoT does not say that you gain +1PML, the sorcerer/DP entry just lets you buy another power if you have it.

Nah, I meant that no longer being a Force Axe mean's he doesn't attack at S5 anymore, whilst still being changed to I1 (from 5th), in other words .. the Manreaper has actually been nerfed from previous edition, whereas before this newest FAQ it was pretty damn nice.. My apologies, I should have clarified ;P

Being able to hit and wound on a 3+ vs MEQs, due to S5 was extremely nice .. now it's just a poison wound again. And yeah, could also do some damage to tank back armor before .. now you have to hope for 3 glances to remove hull points. Made sense for the lore of the Manreaper, and certainly was far from unbalanced (especially for something that rebels) on a 225 pt model..

There is of course, still the silly contradiction of his Destroyer Hive amendment stating that he counts as never suffering penalties from charging through cover, thus always fighting at Initiative .. However, being unwieldy, I don't see the purpose of that statement.

 insaniak wrote:

 Beerfiend wrote:
2) I don't suppose it follows the rules of "Daemon Weapons" being AP2 and +1 S, as I'm guessing that is 'only' for Lord with no Mark (kinda bad wording there)

What bad wording? It specifically says Lord with no Mark.

5) Warptime is really reroll 'only' ALL dice or none at all? Was it always intended to be this way, or is this brand new? =(

6) I thought Daemon Princes were aloud to use more than one psychic shooting ability, simply for the fact that they can shoot more than once each turn, being MCs? But apparently that's (now) not the case..

Both old rulings. Only the stuff in magenta is new.

Only that it says "Daemon weapons, Daemon weapon (lords with no mark)" But after rereading the rest I see they're all formatted like that as well, my mistake.

And that really blows about Warptime .. almost makes it not worth the points cost. Not sure how I missed that in past FAQs =/

Cyvash wrote:
I just noticed one thing im guessing tzeentch daemon weapons are still ap3 as well since they were not mentioned.

It would seem that way, yet another lame oversight perhaps? lol

Cyvash wrote:

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Abaddon HAS a mark, of CA, so no +1S AP2 for him. He is AP3.

I think from the wording in Abbadon's rules it's pretty clear that he counts as not having a mark of chaos as far as his daemon weapon goes:
"...Abbadon counts as equipped with a Daemon Weapon that doubles his Strength (to Strength 8, as shown in his profile) instead of the normal +1..."

Furthermore the Daemon weapon rules refer to Lords with no "Mark of Chaos" which are defined on the table on page 25 as being MoK, MoN, MoT, MoS (with no mention of MoCA).

So there's a pretty good argument from both RAI and RAW for him being AP2.

some people will make the argument he's only ap3 still, i see it. but it wont be much longer untill all this changes again.

I actually found the QnA shortly after where it states that he uses a "power weapon that rolls +D6 attacks, and rebels as described on DWs" which, even though it completely contradicts the statement at the top of the FAQ that says it's a DW (not a PW), would in fact mean it's an unusual power weapon.. Pretty ridiculous if they're planning on making him AP2 in the new Dex, and even that aside .. why wouldn't they just make him AP2 for now anyway? He's Abaddon FFS!



I'm not usually one to complain about Balance .. I was one of the few (it would seem) who trudged through the 4th edition codex and stuck to it hoping that the new one would be good, but man some of this is really just .. brainless nonsense, to say the least. I know it's a FAQ, but it's become quite obvious it's a matter of the left hand absolutely never speaking to the right hand. Rumours from the new codex sounds great and I couldn't be happier, but it just sucks that we have to put up with this in the meantime..

Typhus' character, model, and lore was, in fact one of the main reasons I started as CSM to begin wtih, and he was nigh (or maybe utterly) useless in 4th .. with the last FAQ he finally gets to be worth his points cost, and it didn't last a few weeks, ugh. I know the new Dex is otw, but really? All the more reason, in fact, to just let us have the well deserved, and justified buffs to our crappy Dex for now and stop nerfing, and contradicting further stuff.. It's bad enough that the edition was so bad, and it's taken this long for a new one for such a supposedly popular army..

Well that's enough of my venting, I'm quite sure there are other armies out there that suffer the wrath of GW neglect and daftness, as well.

Although, I guess no one has an answer to the Typhus psychic attack + force weapon question? I'll just assume the other guys who posted were nuts, and he can still use both as it says in the bottom of the FAQ ;P

Thanks again for the responses.

Mot increases the models mastery level by 1, this has always been the case. Familiars simply allow you to buy another power.

 Beerfiend wrote:

I actually found the QnA shortly after where it states that he uses a "power weapon that rolls +D6 attacks, and rebels as described on DWs" which, even though it completely contradicts the statement at the top of the FAQ that says it's a DW (not a PW), would in fact mean it's an unusual power weapon.. Pretty ridiculous if they're planning on making him AP2 in the new Dex, and even that aside .. why wouldn't they just make him AP2 for now anyway? He's Abaddon FFS!

That is just clarifying that it follows all the rules for "Daemon Weapons". If you look on page 93 in C:CSM it lists all Daemon Weapons as Power Weapons.

Abaddon's Daemon Sword is "a Daemon Weapon which doubles his strength instead of the normal +1". That is his rule verbatim. The FAQ changes the standard Daemon Weapon to AP2. Abaddon is AP2.

That is just clarifying that it follows all the rules for "Daemon Weapons". If you look on page 93 in C:CSM it lists all Daemon Weapons as Power Weapons.Abaddon's Daemon Sword is "a Daemon Weapon which doubles his strength instead of the normal +1". That is his rule verbatim. The FAQ changes the standard Daemon Weapon to AP2. Abaddon is AP2.

You are wrong, it clearly says in the FaQ that Abbys sword is a power weapon. The only Deamon weapons that were changed are the ones in pink.

If you go by your assumption then that means lords with MoT are better at killing terminators than anyone else. Firstly they would shoot with ap2 and then assault with ap2. I dont think so.

As it stands only Mark of Khorne, Slaneesh, Nurgle or no mark at all have ap2. All others are still restricted to the normal power weapon rules. None of this is going to matter in a few weeks anyway, when the new dex hits.

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:

That is just clarifying that it follows all the rules for "Daemon Weapons". If you look on page 93 in C:CSM it lists all Daemon Weapons as Power Weapons.Abaddon's Daemon Sword is "a Daemon Weapon which doubles his strength instead of the normal +1". That is his rule verbatim. The FAQ changes the standard Daemon Weapon to AP2. Abaddon is AP2.

You are wrong, it clearly says in the FaQ that Abbys sword is a power weapon. The only Deamon weapons that were changed are the ones in pink.

If you go by your assumption then that means lords with MoT are better at killing terminators than anyone else. Firstly they would shoot with ap2 and then assault with ap2. I dont think so.

As it stands only Mark of Khorne, Slaneesh, Nurgle or no mark at all have ap2. All others are still restricted to the normal power weapon rules. None of this is going to matter in a few weeks anyway, when the new dex hits.

You are wrong.

All daemon weapons are power weapons.

Abaddon has the unmarked version which is clearly stated in his profile.

Read the book, if you have it.

Not all Daemon weapons were changed to AP2. The only Daemon weapon not AP2 is the MoT one. But, since the only Daemon Weapon to give a bonus to Str is the one with no mark then it is clear that is the one Abbadon has. Which makes him AP2.

Abbadon does have a mark. It's a special mark which combines all four marks into one. This does not mean he has ap2 weapon.

If they intended for abby to have ap2 they would of updated his weapon in the Faq, just like they did with Typhus.

His special mark is not one of the specified Marks of Chaos. He's got a daemon weapon, and he doesn't have one of the four marks of chaos which modify your daemon weapon into a blissgiver, bloodfeeder, (etc.), so it's AP2. Typhus got his own FAQ ruling because his has additional rules above and beyond being a Plaguebringer.

 Captain Antivas wrote:
Not all Daemon weapons were changed to AP2. The only Daemon weapon not AP2 is the MoT one. But, since the only Daemon Weapon to give a bonus to Str is the one with no mark then it is clear that is the one Abbadon has. Which makes him AP2.

No, the only specific DW that they have named that isnt AP2 is the MoT one. A "daemon weapon" is simply a power weapon unless it matches one f the specified types.

The unmarked one gives +1S. It is a bit of a leap to say tha Abbys Sx2 is the same as this.

AP3, as it is a unique power weapon

No, the only specific DW that they have named that isnt AP2 is the MoT one. A "daemon weapon" is simply a power weapon unless it matches one f the specified types.

The unmarked one gives +1S. It is a bit of a leap to say tha Abbys Sx2 is the same as this.

AP3, as it is a unique power weapon

This ^

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Captain Antivas wrote:
Not all Daemon weapons were changed to AP2. The only Daemon weapon not AP2 is the MoT one. But, since the only Daemon Weapon to give a bonus to Str is the one with no mark then it is clear that is the one Abbadon has. Which makes him AP2.

No, the only specific DW that they have named that isnt AP2 is the MoT one. A "daemon weapon" is simply a power weapon unless it matches one f the specified types.

The unmarked one gives +1S. It is a bit of a leap to say tha Abbys Sx2 is the same as this.

AP3, as it is a unique power weapon

Have you even read Abaddon's entry? Apparently not because if you had you would know the combination of his weapons give him the benefits.

"Abaddon has been gifted...Drach'nyen...and wears the Talon of Horus...The effect of these two powerful artefacts means that Abbadon counts as equipped with a Daemon Weapon that doubles his Strength (to Strength 8, as shown in his profile) instead of the normal +1, and he may re-roll any failed roll to wound in close combat."

As the ACTUAL rule says, not the rule you are making up, he would normally get the +1 strength from where? What rule in the Chaos codex gives someone a +1 to their strength in close combat? Oh, that's right. The unnamed Daemon Weapon.

In fact let's look at the actual rules for Daemon Weapons, since your claim that it is simply a power weapon unless it matches your criteria.

"A Daemon Weapon:
Requires two hands to use.
Is a power weapon,
Adds an extra d6 attacks...
[b]Has an additional ability that varies depending on the Mark given to the bearer, as described below."

And what is the first listing? Lords with no Mark of Chaos. So, if you have one of the 4 you get that version, if you have no Mark you get the other one. The AP2 +1 Str version. You are wrong.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
Abbadon does have a mark. It's a special mark which combines all four marks into one. This does not mean he has ap2 weapon.

If they intended for abby to have ap2 they would of updated his weapon in the Faq, just like they did with Typhus.

They didn't need to update Abaddon's weapon. It is clear when you actually read the codex entry.

I see you havent read the Errata then, as they have changed what "Daemon Weapon" is defined as.

You are making an implicit leap that the "instead of +1" has any meaning rules wise anymore. It doesnt.

Stop with the insults, as they make responding tedious.