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 Surtur wrote:

danp164 wrote:
Your all thinking too small, Space Marines have tactics specifically designed to combat nid infestations and necron tomb worlds.

I believe they refer to it as "Orbital Lance Strikes, hooray for Orbital Lance Strikes" for when surgical application of force fails and only wholesale application of ungodly firepower will do.

In all seriousness the hardest foe for Space Marines are usually chaos cults, whereas space marines are trained in light infantry tactics, guerrilla warfare and infiltration, they still aren't ideally suited tot he task, and lets not forget most cultists, especially higher up, have taken serious measure to protect themselves from even being discovered.

The moral of the story, you cannot claim military superiority over a force that's more than willing to annihilate the planet your standing on, you can however send them away, thinking your dead and the threat is over.

Other that cultists I'd say the biggest foe to Astartes is the administratum.

A Space Marine chapter does not have enough ships to combat a hive fleet. Necrons have surface to space capabilities with it's pylons. To destroy a tombworld a chapter sacrificed itself while several others helped in the fight.

Cultists usually aren't a Space Marine problem. Rooting out cultists is Arbite territory. A Space Marine wandering around a planet is usually a waste of resources. When a cultist uprising happens, then all bets are off. Space Marines tear through cultists like butter though a turbine. A librarian would figure out whats up in a matter of seconds if a cult tried to hide in front of him.

Ok, your changing the original point away from ground combat to space combat to suit a point of view, fair enough.

No a single SM chapter does not have enough fire support to take on a full sized hive fleet. They never deploy a single chapter to take on a full fleet unless its a delaying tactic, they deploy entire BATTLEGROUPS of imperial navy with space marine support from MULTIPLE chapters. Necrons vary from tombworld to tombworld when it comes to strength and disposition of forces. But again this is a threat generally assigned to a combined FLEET with assigned Astartes ground assets. The point I'm trying to make here is space marines don't generally do space fighting that doesn't involve boarding actions, that;s why they have the imperial navy... that's kind of the point of the imperial navy.

So if were done attempting to fire space marines out of cannons at enemy space ships, lets get back to what their normally deployed to. Fast response take and hold ground missions, Both Necrons and tyranids react PHENOMENALLY slowly to space marine incursions. Space marines deployed in such a way either attack a central tomb nexus directly (Necrons) or target large synapse structures (Tyranids) to send the hive into dissaray. In either case once that has been accomplished their job is done, the clean up jobs its a guardsmen job.

Planetary insurection IS something Marines are deployed to deal with, and they are crap at it. organised chaos cults, the higher ranks are never on show, so after the jobs done the infestation can reoccur, Disorganised cults have no centeralised command structure to target , leaving space marines ground pounding till the jobs done, which they can;t guarantee.

And no, a Librarian cannot simply "Sense a disturbance in the force" when he;s on a planet and immediately know where the enemy is and more importantly WHO and HOW MANY it is. Its not an all purpose "Reveal All Chaos" button.

 Melissia wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Orks are sorta endless due to bad writing

I think you're confusing Orks with Tyranids. Orks are actually well-written.

Can't agree.

Orks are one of my favorite armies in the game. SO much fun and creativity to be had.

But they're ludicrously stupid, and horridly written. Their entire society makes no sense, and could never actually function. The only reason that doesn't matter, is because it doesn't matter. People enjoy the Orks because they are ridiculous.

However, the part of Ork fluff that sticks out and I refer to as bad writing, was when they transitioned into infinitely reproducing space fungus. The concept was so poorly thought out, and took away much of what made the Orks fun and cool. They were always just a galactic pain in the ass back in the day, and that was part of their appeal. Armies of Orks back in 2nd Edition and Rogue Trader were whimsically amusing, and self destructed half of the time, to the delight of everyone playing.

At some point, Games Workshop tried up ratchet up the GRIMDARK, and everything became a contest of one-upsmanship to be the biggest threat to the galaxy. Instead of being the rambunctious neighbors you could never quite get rid of, suddenly the Orks were some all encompassing threat on par with the Tyranids. What made the Tyranids so ominous when they were first consolidated into a codex (2nd Edition) was that they were the game's first "These guys are going to eat everybody" race. Now, pretty much all of the antagonist armies have been escalated to "going to destroy everybody" status, and, well that saps flavor out of the game. Heck, the Necrons just went from creepy, mysterious evil Egyptian Terminatorss to "going to end life as we know it" status a few months ago. If I were a Dark Eldar player, I'd feel pretty left out. They finally got a new Codex, but they're still scrubs in the bigger picture.

Necrons. Or tyranids

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Orks are sorta endless due to bad writing

I think you're confusing Orks with Tyranids. Orks are actually well-written.

Can't agree.

Orks are one of my favorite armies in the game. SO much fun and creativity to be had.

But they're ludicrously stupid, and horridly written. Their entire society makes no sense, and could never actually function. The only reason that doesn't matter, is because it doesn't matter. People enjoy the Orks because they are ridiculous.

However, the part of Ork fluff that sticks out and I refer to as bad writing, was when they transitioned into infinitely reproducing space fungus. The concept was so poorly thought out, and took away much of what made the Orks fun and cool. They were always just a galactic pain in the ass back in the day, and that was part of their appeal. Armies of Orks back in 2nd Edition and Rogue Trader were whimsically amusing, and self destructed half of the time, to the delight of everyone playing.

At some point, Games Workshop tried up ratchet up the GRIMDARK, and everything became a contest of one-upsmanship to be the biggest threat to the galaxy. Instead of being the rambunctious neighbors you could never quite get rid of, suddenly the Orks were some all encompassing threat on par with the Tyranids. What made the Tyranids so ominous when they were first consolidated into a codex (2nd Edition) was that they were the game's first "These guys are going to eat everybody" race. Now, pretty much all of the antagonist armies have been escalated to "going to destroy everybody" status, and, well that saps flavor out of the game. Heck, the Necrons just went from creepy, mysterious evil Egyptian Terminators to "going to end life as we know it" status a few months ago. If I were a Dark Eldar player, I'd feel pretty left out. They finally got a new Codex, but they're still scrubs in the bigger picture.

so even though they've had that fluff for nearly 15 years longer than the orginal concept of orks lasted you say it's horribly written? Who cares how they reproduce that is still the ultimate truth orks are a feverish lot of childish morons with the strength of 10 apes on steroids. They have always had more numbers than everyone because they represent the savage races out in the world today in a stark contrast to the kindgoms of britian. I.E> Huns v Britiania.

Nids have been around since 2nd ed and they escalated just as much as any other race. Having been given a PURPOSE to attack due to the Astronomicon. They are still cutuhulian in their approach.

And... i don't know what you are even talking about with Necrons i played them before they EVEN HAD A CODEX and their whole goal was to destroy all live even back then... the last edition codex's main quote even states this. You are simply inferring Matt Ward's highlighting of their eqyptian culture is somehow unmerited? Explain the necron Lord model (oldest school) explain their runes, explain the Monolith or either original fluff? They have become more cartoony if anything to me.

Ultimately I think you are splitting hairs the souls of these armies never changed and 40k wasn't about "1 race being better" it was that all races were major players in the galaxy even the dark eldar and tau of course these races didn't exist at the time these editions where made. The overall quote of 40k was "In the grime darkness of the 41 millennium there is only war." extends back further than i can remember and I want to say it has been in existence since the invention of the game honestly. So orks grow from fungus, why is that any worse writing than a magical star child born from a whole bunch of mystics rituallistically killing themselves in synchronization in order to create the emperor the sheer logistics of this would seem nearly impossible i might add...

I think you want to pick on orks cause you personally don't like aspects to them anymore and have no founding or reasons other than that simple fact. I politely say Orks are not written badly and to me come of as perhaps the most identifiable IP in all of 40k, biasness aside the way an ork will act is always predicted by 40k fanatics ... but then you get curve balls like necron and Blood angel alliances against nids...

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:so even though they've had that fluff for nearly 15 years longer than the orginal concept of orks lasted you say it's horribly written?

I'm sorry, does bad writing have an expiration date at which point it becomes good writing?

Nids have been around since 2nd ed and they escalated just as much as any other race.

Wrong. They started at 10. Going to eat everything. Everyone else has just been slowly escalated towards 10 as well. Orks are like an 8.5, where they used to be a 5. In the old days, if you got a ton of them worked up, and a really good warlord came around, they would smash stuff up for a while, before eventually being defeated. Now, there are dozens of major warlords, sector spanning Waaaaaaghs, etc.

And... i don't know what you are even talking about with Necrons i played them before they EVEN HAD A CODEX and their whole goal was to destroy all live even back then...

Where did I say they did anything different? Good lord, try to keep up. Do less typing, and more reading. And I guarantee I had Necron models before you did. The bottom line is, their fluff was completely revamped. The Necrons were mysterious, but fairly rare in the Imperium. Now, suddenly there are potentially trillions of them. Went from a 5 to a 10 in the space of an instant.

You are simply inferring Matt Ward's highlighting of their eqyptian culture is somehow unmerited?

No. And I feel like I'd hurt my brain trying to slow enough of its functions down to try and figure out how you came to that conclusion.

So orks grow from fungus,

They've been fungus for a long time. The transition into the "Kill us, and we *poof* into dozens more little Ork spores" was the stupid part. It made them lame. Suddenly, killing Orks wasn't about facing down a horde of lunatics in cannon-covered jalopies, but instead an annoying extermination process where Orks were like some kind of pesky mold you could never quite get rid of in your bathroom. But you're missing the point. And, honestly, given that you've referred to Orks in the first person plural, I'm not surprised. It wasn't the Orks themselves that I have a problem with. Like I said, it is one of my favorite armies. I played Orcs back when I was a fantasy player, and I even enjoyed Gorkamorka despite the fact that it was rather poorly made, and kinda dumb.

I think you want to pick on orks cause you personally don't like aspects to them anymore and have no founding or reasons other than that simple fact.

Don't do too much thinking. It doesn't suit you. I said very clearly what I don't like about Orks, so there's no need for you to do much inference. If you think the ratcheting up to full grimdark is fine, that's cool. Fanboys typically enjoy when their favorite race gets made stronger in the fluff. Me, I look at it with a more even keel. I liked the way the Orks used to be. I didn't like that Games Workshop felt the need to make them some kind of apocalyptic threat. It changed the basic essence of their fluff. The Orks were supposed to be the comic relief for the grimdark.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Their entire society makes no sense, and could never actually function.

Aside from "I'm pulling nothing out of ass", why not? You're conflating "I'm whiny and remember the old lore as if it was written by god on stone tablets" with "the new lore is poorly written".

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
The concept was so poorly thought out, and took away much of what made the Orks fun and cool.

What the feth are you smoking? That's part of what makes Orks awesome! This is not poorly thought out, it's one of the better bits of Ork fluff. Older Ork lore, now THAT was poorly written. The new Ork lore is far deeper than the old stuff, which was so stupidly incoherent that it was nothing more than a joke army, never to be taken seriously. A joke, nothing more-- that's all it ever amounted to. It was dumb, it was shallow, it was flimsy, it was one-dimensional, and Orks as a faction from a literary standpoint are far better off as they are now.

Orks still have humor from our perspective, but they're far deeper and better defined than before when you think about them in their own viewpoint. Their biology makes sense given the way they think, and their society makes sense given the way their bodies work. Their reproduction methods before were very ill-fitting, having them lose all lust for battle and go off to mate? That does't really make any sense given the way the rest of Ork society works. But Orks reproducing through spores they shed throughout their entire lives, and especially when dying? See, THAT makes sense, THAT fits in with the way Ork society is written, especially when combined with Orks getting bigger the more they fight. The violence, constant brutality, death, and the focus on battle almost to the exclusion of all other things makes perfect sense when you realize that this is basically not only their method of reproduction, but also their method of worshiping their gods.

Out of all the factions, Orks have received by far the best lore evolution in 40k.

Suddenly, killing Orks wasn't about facing down a horde of lunatics in cannon-covered jalopies

You don't know anything about Orks if this is the way you think they are.

Killing orks is STILL facing down a horde of raging technobarbarians in gun-covered monster trucks. In fact, now they're far scarier-- Orks are actually far tougher, biologically, than they were in the old fluff, as well as more skilled in combat. So not only are they the raging, never-ending technobarbarians at the gate, covered in more guns than good sense, they're nigh-unkillable raging, never-ending technobarbarians at the gate, covered in far too many REALLY BIG guns that lesser races would have problems just standing still while firing, nevermind firing without injury.

Orks went from "a joke race that nobody takes seriously and just laughs off" to "the badass hordes of techno-barbarians that you will NEVER get rid of". It was a definite upgrade.

Stop feeding Vet Sarge, he always pulls shenanigans like this.

I think CSM are the biggest threat to the SM (Awaiting butt hurt in 3...2...1...)

My reason for this is simple, they are the enemy within, they are the ones who know what the space marines are capable of and hence know where to target them weakest, they are the ones who round up parts of the imperium who have a slight doubt on the emperor and will invest in that thought until it becomes a hatred for him.

Now there are parts where the Imperium try to cover up and say that they have it under control, but if they did would there be space marines that would turn there backs on the emperor? and I can further state that those parts have made it worse for themselves by branding certain chapters "Traitors" (an example of this are the soul drinkers) so if they did have this "infestation" under control do you really think chaos would still breed into reality?

This is just my opinion, but the CSM are the most threatening to the space marines...

Melissia wrote: In fact, now they're far scarier-- Orks are actually far tougher, biologically, than they were in the old fluff, as well as more skilled in combat.

They're not scary. They're just stupid.

The comedy was what made Orks great, not that they were tough, or scary, or intimidating.



If you feel otherwise, you're entitled to that opinion.

Melissia wrote:What the feth are you smoking? .

As usual, you produce nothing intelligent, but are ready with the insults. I always forget how lovely the 40K online world's lamest troll is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 King Pariah wrote:
Stop feeding Vet Sarge, he always pulls shenanigans like this.

What, present an opinion and have to deal with the ravings of trolls arguing at a 4th grade level?

Yeah, that's really my fault.

I'd say Necrons. Their guns disintegrate stuff. Not so good for power armour.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Heck, the Necrons just went from creepy, mysterious evil Egyptian Terminatorss to "going to end life as we know it" status a few months ago

That is the exact opposite of what happened. Necrons went from this monolithic, unstoppable threat to all living things, to just being a bunch of disparate groups of metal aliens with their own diverse ambitions and agendas. Sure, they are more common now, but considering some of them can now be negotiated with or be counted on to act with some degree of civility, they are no more dangerous than the Dark Eldar you disparage.

 King Pariah wrote:
Stop feeding Vet Sarge, he always pulls shenanigans like this.

Eh, might as well. I mean, it's not like he really responded to my post with anything other than "I think you're stupid".

Frankly I was just using it as a chance to rant about how awesome Orks are.

There can never be enough of those.

I'd say Dark Eldar. Why? Because of all the races, they pretty much strictly ambush people. While most everything else marches into the meat grinder, Deldar are like "lol no, we're going to knife you in the back, then disappear only to do it again later. Oh and good luck following us".

Fighting an opponent like that seems much harder than playing who's got the biggest gun/greenest skin/longest claw/worst fluff and all that.

Veteran Sergeant wrote: I'm sorry, does bad writing have an expiration date at which point it becomes good writing?

Dodging the point, our fluff to your opinion is badly written and one could easily say any fluff is. A race which thrives on war but is killed easily is actually a much worse form of writing because it makes no logical sense if the only thing an ork wants to do is fight and the mysterious Ork Female is never spoken of nor their mating rituals. They must have given birth in huge liters then which sounds even more ridiculous than killing this xeno allows it to shed spores and can produce up to 12 cocoons which produce various orkinoids. expiration date has nothing to do with what is the longer standing fluff but excellent job again, dodging.

Wrong. They started at 10. Going to eat everything. Everyone else has just been slowly escalated towards 10 as well. Orks are like an 8.5, where they used to be a 5. In the old days, if you got a ton of them worked up, and a really good warlord came around, they would smash stuff up for a while, before eventually being defeated. Now, there are dozens of major warlords, sector spanning Waaaaaaghs, etc.

Support your references then with an old school nid codex or please shut it because some of us have read them and back in the day they were not without number they had to rely on genestealer cults to wear down imperial defenses and have sleeper agents within imperial strongholds. they didn't spell the end of entire world though they easily could it required a lack of supervision and improper defenses till THE SPACE MARINES came down and screwed up the nids. If you should be mad about any races changes in fluff it would be nids but you know why you don't? because they only change them and remove stupid things as they go... it's known as codex creep everyone gets it.

Where did I say they did anything different? Good lord, try to keep up. Do less typing, and more reading. And I guarantee I had Necron models before you did. The bottom line is, their fluff was completely revamped. The Necrons were mysterious, but fairly rare in the Imperium. Now, suddenly there are potentially trillions of them. Went from a 5 to a 10 in the space of an instant.

Your exact words were " Heck, the Necrons just went from creepy, mysterious evil Egyptian Terminatorss to "going to end life as we know it" status a few months ago. If I were a Dark Eldar player, I'd feel pretty left out. They finally got a new Codex, but they're still scrubs in the bigger picture." which infers a change from Egyptian to a transition to world enders. To prove you are not only lying about how well you knew necron fluff let me go ahead and read a few fluff statements which never changed with your unwarranted hate of the revamp.

(4th edition Necron Codex: Back cover)

That man is beset at all quarters by traitors, mutants, and fiends is self-evident. But in truth none of these evils shall be our Undoing. When the end comes it will not be at the hand of any mortal being of this or any other realm: death will come at the hands of the ancients, those who determined our fate aeons before we stood erect upon the holy ground of Terra and gazed up into the starry night.

I could site at least 5 other references off the top of my head but your are not worth the efforts to prove how wrong you are. Also I highly doubt you had necrons before me if anything you may have had the models at the same time but I was into 40 k back in early 1995 while they were still an unofficial army and more of gimmick race like genestealer cults ect. I remember the lawn chairs of doom the very eqypitian looking cron lord and the clunky immortals. My point to you is the changes that took place with the necron are minor at best within the present theme of 40k infact the main ones deal with their history which no one but the eldar knows anyway (C'tan, when their kingdom began, ect) very little changed other than their apparent alliance with blood angels which was perhaps the only thing that was a major disconnect from them as a 'mysterious threat'

No. And I feel like I'd hurt my brain trying to slow enough of its functions down to try and figure out how you came to that conclusion.

based off your whining about their changes. Nothing other than their origins changed their doom of the entire universe mentality has remained pretty well unchanged since their initial codex... but good job trying to once again dodge and disguising it as an insult. Bravo.

They've been fungus for a long time. The transition into the "Kill us, and we *poof* into dozens more little Ork spores" was the stupid part. It made them lame. Suddenly, killing Orks wasn't about facing down a horde of lunatics in cannon-covered jalopies, but instead an annoying extermination process where Orks were like some kind of pesky mold you could never quite get rid of in your bathroom. But you're missing the point. And, honestly, given that you've referred to Orks in the first person plural, I'm not surprised. It wasn't the Orks themselves that I have a problem with. Like I said, it is one of my favorite armies. I played Orcs back when I was a fantasy player, and I even enjoyed Gorkamorka despite the fact that it was rather poorly made, and kinda dumb.

So hilariously enough you keep backhanding insults as though they are explanations and you wonder why people have a hard time following you/ caring what you say? Shocking. go ahead and look at my previous statement about the ork withstanding fluff outliving your old-school renditions of them. To me as well as probably the vast majority of current ork players our current explanations and fluff make us feel sufficiently alien and grim dark rather than your punchline.

Don't do too much thinking. It doesn't suit you. I said very clearly what I don't like about Orks, so there's no need for you to do much inference. If you think the ratcheting up to full grimdark is fine, that's cool. Fanboys typically enjoy when their favorite race gets made stronger in the fluff. Me, I look at it with a more even keel. I liked the way the Orks used to be. I didn't like that Games Workshop felt the need to make them some kind of apocalyptic threat. It changed the basic essence of their fluff. The Orks were supposed to be the comic relief for the grimdark.

clearly you are a sad person to hold onto fluff over 20 years old man... you need to let and accept that orks were designed to be the foreign invaders and the main reason the imperium of man is so wracked by war because it has to send it's supplies all over the galaxy on a daily basis. You are coming off to me as a spoiled child wanting to bitch about things that don't even impact you nor do you understand what the vast majority of ork players want. We enjoy good laughs when we are the ones laughing we could care less how you see it, which is exactly how I feel about you also on a personal level. If GW listened to you they would have been bankrupt by now.

Veteran Sergeant wrote: They're not scary. They're just stupid.

Still nothing better to do with you time i see, sad that this is how you get your rocks off. just gtfo already please.

If you feel otherwise, you're entitled to that opinion.

Which we will gladly share with you, and offer you our opinions of you as well for trolling

As usual, you produce nothing intelligent, but are ready with the insults. I always forget how lovely the 40K online world's lamest troll is.

aren't you just sorely missed at 4chan ?

What, present an opinion and have to deal with the ravings of trolls arguing at a 4th grade level?

You are merely highlighting the point for me beautifully Do us a favor and since it's obvious you haven't read an ork codex since 2nd edition please politely share your nauseating opinions with someone who would care to listen to you prattle on about the days of VHS and mix-tapes, meanwhile we are going to talk about something in the last 2 decades okay old timer?

Anyway, moving onto matters far more worth my time I wouldn't say orks are by any means something marines have a problem dealing with on a day by day basis due to the fact the battle doctrines of the Imperial guard keep them in decent enough check. they need to mobilize en mass during orkish Waaaghs but otherwise nothing too extreme.

Nids I concur being an issue because they are meticulous about devouring entire planets and once they gain momentum most chapters resign themselves to a fallback strategy to face them on a new battlefront their only priority is to protect imperial citizens.

Cron do run a disastrously efficient attack most continuously than either orks or nids i'd say but they attack less frequently so it's hard to judge but based on the criteria of the OP I would say Cron hold a decent candle to your answer.

Tau were reported as infuriating to fight in previous codexes losing titans and many battle brothers at this time the Waaagh of dakka had been more effective than imperial attacks on their worlds so the IOM doesn't waste time with them until they can dedicate overwhelming power (which won't be anytime soon due to the galactic condition)

Eldar and dark eldar are by far the best pilots in 40k in accordance with fluff, mobile and cunning with confusing technology to create ghost signatures. the typical encounter with eldar i woudl have to imagine is hellishly aggravating. once a ground war is declared though... far less so again according to fluff however.

If anything I would still have to say Chaos, it isn't never minor incursions with chaos and primarily dealing with corruption leads to further corruption as far as chaos and demons are concerned. Its still the ever present threat that could arrise within any imperial citizen or champion of chapters nothing is too sacred to be immune to it's touch even grey knights if you want to believe mr. ward. So I would way Chaos is the ultimate challenge of a Space marine chapter, followed by Cron and nids and then any other race based off circumstances. Again things like orks can be some of the VERY worst but only once a proper waaagh is declared.

Watch, Veteran Sergeant is going to come back saying something like "you're not a nobel prize winner so your argument is invalid. Thus you can't argue with me." just like he did on a previous thread or two several months back.

 King Pariah wrote:
Watch, Veteran Sergeant is going to come back saying something like "you're not a nobel prize winner so your argument is invalid. Thus you can't argue with me." just like he did on a previous thread or two several months back.

I'd expect nothing less from him, Ha I barely know the guy and i can tell what type of sad person he already is. Thanks for the warning though all i needed was to voice my thoughts and tell him there is a reason he is stirring gak up and that's because he's still hungry after spewing so much of it out.

I think nids and orks because both are basically numberless if an ork can survive the battle he becomes an even bigger threat but i think nids are the biggest because orks have infighting also the nids are the most adadptable race and they always learn and each group has the knowledge of every single other nid that has ever been.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also i am not supporting Veteran Sergeant but he actually did more than call people stupid he gave valid points if anything you guys are being hypocritical because you just pass every comment of his off as calling you dumb and you must not really read them because he does not just insult you guys.

@wolf It's true, he does put up valid points, HOWEVER, if you take the time to look at past posts, you'll see he has a tendency of calling everyone who doesn't agree with his opinion idiots. So even when he is putting up a valid point, if he's also calling others idiots at the same time, should he be tolerated? It seems to be practically habitual with him to do this. Mind you, he really did say not too long ago something along the lines of, "you're not a nobel prize winner so your argument is invalid. Thus you can't argue with me."

But you're missing the point. And, honestly, given that you've referred to Orks in the first person plural, I'm not surprised.

And tell me that THAT^ is not an insult

No i fully understand that he insults everybody with an opinion different then his what i was saying is it seems as if you guys were putting it off as if the only thing he was doing was insulting andnot making valid points.

He has kind of exhausted our patience with this repetitive behavior. Sort of hard not to brush off his valid points when it's interlaced with insults. And I think it's best not to group all of us as hypocritical vengeful jerks. A couple people were having a legitimate discussion with him (until he starts insulting others, specifically the ones he is having the discussions with).

True chaos bar none. You want endless try something that cannot actually die.

 King Pariah wrote:
He has kind of exhausted our patience with this repetitive behavior. Sort of hard not to brush off his valid points when it's interlaced with insults. And I think it's best not to group all of us as hypocritical vengeful jerks. A couple people were having a legitimate discussion with him (until he starts insulting others, specifically the ones he is having the discussions with).

Okay well i just have not had any experiences at all with him before this.

wolftheassassin53 wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
He has kind of exhausted our patience with this repetitive behavior. Sort of hard not to brush off his valid points when it's interlaced with insults. And I think it's best not to group all of us as hypocritical vengeful jerks. A couple people were having a legitimate discussion with him (until he starts insulting others, specifically the ones he is having the discussions with).

Okay well i just have not had any experiences at all with him before this.

I normally will never chew someone out for their opinions. But when I do they've had it coming /meme.

In all seriousness i completely understand missing a previous incarnation of orks. This however isn't an undeniable truth nor is it a widely accepted viewpoint the way vet used his sarcasm and insults these personal points he was declaring made other people who actually play orks or enjoy our current fluff are depicted as dung flinging 4th graders. That is the point of a personal opinion you can't prove it's right, you can say it and move on more or less unless you find others wanting to talk about it.

Vet has no ill will from me, but he needed a public spanking for his actions which i gladly offered. I am not a personal fan of the rendition of 40k which is less grim dark and enjoy a more galactic threat level of orks but the idea that in 40k all the races 'were more humble' is something i don't recall from my past with 40k in the least. It was always that planets hung in the balance of each battle. You can only stay civil with someone so long regardless of their points being valid ones or not.

You cannot force people to think the same way as you nor can your force a child to or a man for that matter to do something if they don't want to. Wielding insults is not the way to work around this truth it is rational discussion and diplomacy not belitting the things the other side holds dear and then discrediting their opinions. Why do you think religion, politics and government are the topics most people steer away from? because it takes the patience and eloquence of a rare breed to successfully negotiate on these topics.

Atheist think bringing evidence will dispell faith and the faith think that downright resistance to these views are the best way to handle issues. They are not

My apologizes if you thought I was cruel, but i will not take back the things I said i feel he earned every statement attacking the group as a whole the way he did. A shame too, because I've agreed with a lot of his points in the past. *Shrug* such is the way of debates though

Anyway enough talking about that one guy whose name I've already forgotten. Let's talk about Orks or something.

The boyz. I mean, look at how many of them have space marine helmets as trophies.

 CuddlySquig wrote:
The boyz. I mean, look at how many of them have space marine helmets as trophies.

lol true, with so many ork players you'd think he had collected a few chapters by now

My problem with orks if they are "Beat" (I only put " " in because Orks never lose a battle ) in battle is that once that happens Imperial garrisons will declare a long purge, such as lots of PDF of the system get there flamers out and burn all the spores, hence getting rid of the infestation...

Nids, to me, I like the fluff and it makes sense and fits in with the GRIMDARK theme but I Dont like the "and nothing can stop them ever" adage that they put down I believe that there is a way to stop them or brutally damage them (such as Dawn of war II when the Blood ravens make a weapon to poison the hive mind, and another example is when kaptin badrukk decided to harm the Norn queen...and he is a pirate ork...)

And yes the story of how the Iron warriors home world fell really irritated me...

To me the ones the SM will always find hardest to fight is Chaos Space Marines mainly because they are the enemy within and not many know when they strike or when a Battle Brother will turn there back on the emperor in the middle of a warzone and kill his once fellow battle brothers from within...

 happygolucky wrote:
My problem with orks if they are "Beat" (I only put " " in because Orks never lose a battle ) in battle is that once that happens Imperial garrisons will declare a long purge, such as lots of PDF of the system get there flamers out and burn all the spores, hence getting rid of the infestation...

Nids, to me, I like the fluff and it makes sense and fits in with the GRIMDARK theme but I Dont like the "and nothing can stop them ever" adage that they put down I believe that there is a way to stop them or brutally damage them (such as Dawn of war II when the Blood ravens make a weapon to poison the hive mind, and another example is when kaptin badrukk decided to harm the Norn queen...and he is a pirate ork...)

And yes the story of how the Iron warriors home world fell really irritated me...

To me the ones the SM will always find hardest to fight is Chaos Space Marines mainly because they are the enemy within and not many know when they strike or when a Battle Brother will turn there back on the emperor in the middle of a warzone and kill his once fellow battle brothers from within...

they've stated in rogue trader that flamers do not remove the spores well enough the only way to "Purge" ork spores is nothing short of Exterminatus that is straight from our codex.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
they've stated in rogue trader that flamers do not remove the spores well enough the only way to "Purge" ork spores is nothing short of Exterminatus that is straight from our codex.

Pulling over the top lines from codices is fun.

None are safe from the predations of the Tyranids and if the tide cannot be held back, if the warriing civilisations do not unite against them, the engire galaxy is doomed.

I mean, it's written, black and white, that the only way to stop the Tyranids is for the Eldar, Dark Eldar, the IoM, Necrons, Orks, Tau and the forces of Chaos to all drop their squabbling and unite against them.

Which basically means that the galaxy is doomed to be a big bowel movement.

 Omegus wrote:
That is the exact opposite of what happened. Necrons went from this monolithic, unstoppable threat to all living things, to just being a bunch of disparate groups of metal aliens with their own diverse ambitions and agendas. Sure, they are more common now, but considering some of them can now be negotiated with or be counted on to act with some degree of civility, they are no more dangerous than the Dark Eldar you disparage.

Only some Necrons endeavor towards killing every other faction now, some are entirely willing to barter or negotiate with the lesser races, and honestly in a few ways they are less of an "evil threat" than the Imperium is.

Oldcrons: United, implacable legion of enigmatic machines.

Newcrons: Splintered race of metal men with human minds and goals barring a few exceptions.