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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Nobody is letting people off the hook for killing anybody. Also keep in mind that the attack that resulted in deaths has nothing to do with the movie. The attack in Egypt happened because people who had a reason to be offended expressed it in a way that they didn't have the right to. They violated our embassy and took down our flag, they didn't kill anybody though.

You have the right to insult me, and I have the right to be offended by it. Depending on the substance of the insult I might have legal options to deal with it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 06:33:42


 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Seaward wrote:
So you're saying you're in favor of freedom of speech only if it's justified?


No. I have explicitly stated several times I do not think it should be censured. I have spoken entirely in terms of personal responsbility.

To explain it to you, yet again, I do not believe government should go about deciding what speach is justified. But I do believe every person has a responsibility to consider their speach, and whether it is really needed. And when a person shows blatant disregard for that speach and something like this happens then other people have not only the right but the obligation to say 'that person was a dill weed and now he has blood on his hands'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Seaward wrote:
You need to stop acting as though we're the ones who make that call. It's the people in the countries themselves, not us.


So we just pretend we've had no influence in the situation there?

Who said it had anything to do with Islam? You're operating on theory, I'm looking at, you know, what's actually going on over there. If you can point to a democracy in the region that's not Israel or Turkey that you'd consider a shining example for the others to aspire to, by all means, be my guest.


"Because a thing hasn't happened it can't happen" is about the only truly wrong thing you can say about history.

And for the record, people were claiming the same stuff about Asia 50 years ago.

I think anyone attempting to defend the killing of another human being on grounds of superstition is off their fething rocker.


Well, duh. How does it compare to wanting to glass an entire region because someone in it was off their rocker?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ouze wrote:
I think the point might have been that, just because you have the right to say something and no one can stop you from doing it, doesn't mean you should do it.


Exactly. Thankyou for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
You're right... I agree with this...

I'm more of a "stand by" what you said/done kind of thing...

But, I want to clarify that last statement:
'that kind film is not what this country is about'... no, but we're the kind of country that allows it...

That's the difference...


Absolutely, but I don't think that part of the message needed to be made in Obama's speach. That'd be getting too far off topic

In the following days, and especially with this Egyptian call to charge the maker of the video, there might be a good time to make that statement as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Seaward wrote:
The former becomes unnecessary with the latter.


No it doesn't. Even if someone is the model of restraint and doesn't retaliate in any way, it is still poor form to piss them off for no reason.

This is something we all know, by the way. We all know it's poor form to walk up to some stranger and tell him he's ugly, even if we know there'll be no physical consequence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Seaward wrote:
Where the disconnect comes in, with you people who are suggesting this is all the film's fault, is the assumption that being offended leading to the killing of another human being, or even the storming of a foreign embassy, is somehow justified. It's not. It's crazy.


No-one has said it is justified. People have explicitly pointed out that it is not justified. Pay attention, and don't just make gak up.

The point is that there is more than enough blame to go around, to say that people who killed embassy staff are complete whackjob lunatics, and at the time say the whackjob that made the video is a gak stirring twerp.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Seaward wrote:
Simple question: do I have the right to insult you?


Yes. And you have the obligation to consider if that insult is really needed. And I have the responsibility to consider my response.

How are you not getting this? You are living, breathing, functioning human. You follow the above every single day of your life. It doesn't change when it moves to issues between nations.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/09/13 06:52:53


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 sebster wrote:

No. I have explicitly stated several times I do not think it should be censured. I have spoken entirely in terms of personal responsbility.

To explain it to you, yet again, I do not believe government should go about deciding what speach is justified. But I do believe every person has a responsibility to consider their speach, and whether it is really needed. And when a person shows blatant disregard for that speach and something like this happens then other people have not only the right but the obligation to say 'that person was a dill weed and now he has blood on his hands'.

The filmmaker thought it was needed. You disagree. The only facts to be dealt with are that one side was within their rights, the other was not. Anything beyond that is personal opinion, and its worth ends at the individual's lips. What someone should or shouldn't do is up to them, not you. Should we reduce the penalties against rapists because the woman was dressed provocatively? She shouldn't have dressed like that in that part of town, after all.

Personal responsibility's great. I advocate it for everyone. But the absence of it - real or perceived - does not justify or make more reasonable illegal acts in retaliation. Nor should one be afraid to act within the law for fear of illegal reprisal.
So we just pretend we've had no influence in the situation there?

Influence? Sure, we've had influence, as had every other major power on Earth, going back as far as you care to go. We didn't set up the modern Middle East exactly how we wanted it, and we've had very little influence, prior to our invasion of Iraq, over who gets tapped to head any given government in the region. As I said, we deal with whoever that ends up being, just like everyone else.

"Because a thing hasn't happened it can't happen" is about the only truly wrong thing you can say about history.

It has just as much factual basis as your counter of, "Just because a thing hasn't happened it will happen."

Well, duh. How does it compare to wanting to glass an entire region because someone in it was off their rocker?

I don't know. I haven't seen anyone advocating that.

   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Seaward wrote:
The filmmaker thought it was needed. You disagree. The only facts to be dealt with are that one side was within their rights, the other was not.


Framing actions entirely in terms of rights is completely disfunctional.

Once again... it is within my rights to tell a random stranger he is ugly, but should I?

Anything beyond that is personal opinion, and its worth ends at the individual's lips. What someone should or shouldn't do is up to them, not you.


Yes, it is up to them. And it's up to other people to discuss whether those actions were moral or not. That's how we discuss, and develop moral frameworks.

I mean, are you really claiming we shouldn't discuss other's actions in terms of morality?

Should we reduce the penalties against rapists because the woman was dressed provocatively? She shouldn't have dressed like that in that part of town, after all.

Personal responsibility's great. I advocate it for everyone. But the absence of it - real or perceived - does not justify or make more reasonable illegal acts in retaliation.


Look, I could go back and drag up every instance of me stating nothing justifies the retaliation. But that'll just make it look like a bit of an ass and none of us really want that.

So we'll just look past that, pretend that somehow you've missed every single time that's been pointed out, and instead I'll just explain the whole concept to you in short simple sentences.

A person is free to say whatever they want.
But they should consider whether their comment is really needed.
That idea is not tied to the possibility of repercussions, but simply to offence itself.
Any response is bounded by law, but also by personal responsbility, and so a person should consider whether their response is legal, and also whether it is moral.
It is possible for more than one party to be at fault in a situation.
Not only that, but it is possible for the blame assigned to one party to not reduce, in any way, the blame assigned to another party.


Now that you've got that, can you please arguing with imaginary people?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 07:41:20


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 sebster wrote:

Framing actions entirely in terms of rights is completely disfunctional.

Once again... it is within my rights to tell a random stranger he is ugly, but should I?

Should you? Up to you. Certainly not up to the stranger.

Yes, it is up to them. And it's up to other people to discuss whether those actions were moral or not. That's how we discuss, and develop moral frameworks.

I mean, are you really claiming we shouldn't discuss other's actions in terms of morality?

I'm saying this isn't an issue of morality. You want to discuss it in terms of morality? Very well. It's not immoral to make a film that breaks no laws. End of discussion.

A person is free to say whatever they want.
But they should consider whether their comment is really needed.
That idea is not tied to the possibility of repercussions, but simply to offence itself.

Where have you picked up this strange notion that you're entitled to go through life without ever being offended?

Any response is bounded by law, but also by personal responsbility, and so a person should consider whether their response is legal, and also whether it is moral.
It is possible for more than one party to be at fault in a situation.
Not only that, but it is possible for the blame assigned to one party to not reduce, in any way, the blame assigned to another party.

So I take it, in the analogy I presented earlier, you're saying that the woman's at fault as well as the attacker? Interesting.

Now that you've got that, can you please arguing with imaginary people?

What?
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 Seaward wrote:

The filmmaker thought it was needed. You disagree. The only facts to be dealt with are that one side was within their rights, the other was not. Anything beyond that is personal opinion...


Wait, are we really pretending that rights that aren't legally enshrined exists beyond personal opinion?

Good work.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

NBC is reporting:

BREAKING NEWS: Protesters storm US Embassy in Sanaa, Yemen - AP and Reuters


Automatically Appended Next Post:
info here

SANAA, Yemen (AP) — Protesters angered by an anti-Islam film have stormed the U.S. Embassy compound in Yemen's capital, Sanaa.

The protesters were on the embassy's grounds but did not enter the building housing the offices.

Before storming the embassy compound on Thursday, the demonstrators removed the embassy's sign on the outer wall and set tires ablaze. Once inside the compound, they brought down the U.S. flag and burned it.

Yemen is home to al-Qaida's most active branch and the United States is the main foreign supporter of the Yemeni government's counterterrorism campaign. The government on Tuesday announced that al-Qaida's No. 2 leader in Yemen was killed in an apparent U.S. airstrike, a major blow to the terror network.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 09:04:35


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Not really surprised if al-Qaida would use a film like that as a recruiting tool.

"Hey guys, are you angry that somebody made a movie about our prophet? Are you angry that the US would allow such a thing? We don't like the US either! Come and join us!"

Once you have an angry mop, anybody can try to take control of it and use it for their purposes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And just for the people that like to call for a nuclear strike against the entire region:









This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 09:20:56


 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 Seaward wrote:

A person is free to say whatever they want.
But they should consider whether their comment is really needed.
That idea is not tied to the possibility of repercussions, but simply to offence itself.

Where have you picked up this strange notion that you're entitled to go through life without ever being offended?


He hasn't. He's just saying that offending someone just because you can is a stupid thing to do. You keep twisting what he says into some sort of bizarre attack on the freedom of speech, it's getting silly.

 whembly wrote:

As Ben Franklin famously said:
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it



That was Voltaire...

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Bournemouth, UK

Moved onto Yemen now I see... yet another country filled with an illiterate population, easily fired up, and again if you asked them what had them all fired up, they would tell a story that bares no resemblance to what was shown in the film.

Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.

Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor

I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design

www.wulfstandesign.co.uk

http://www.voodoovegas.com/
 
   
Made in gb
Screaming Banshee






Cardiff, United Kingdom

It has been pointed out to me that I confused Cairo and Benghazi.

I thus misled my fellow Dakkaites by implying that the US Ambassador to Libya had been killed in Cairo. My shame for doing so is great and unbearable.

I thus consider my entire argument invalidated down to its very core; not a single valid point can be salvaged if you mix up place names.

May mine be a cautionary tale to others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 d-usa wrote:

And just for the people that like to call for a nuclear strike against the entire region:

Spoiler:










Collateral Damage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 11:18:12


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Overall outcome. US will have more insurgents for the coming summer of next year in Afghanistan.

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
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Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
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Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

this actually makes more sense than what has happened. Alas.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok




SE Michigan



If I had to watch that I would be grabbing my rpg and heading for the closest embassy as well....can't he just stop with the movie thing already?

www.mi40k.com for pickup games and tournaments
3000+


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Government is now all over it saying it was Libya was a previously planned Al Qaeda attack that took advantage of the protest.

I feel for the loss. On the positive if this is the best Al Qaeda can do on the 911 anniversary then things are going ok on that front.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 12:54:36


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






Sebster wrote:Poppycock. Islam is a religion, no more, no less. It doesn't magically stop anyone from being part of a democracy.


It has been awhile, but wasn't Leviathan basically one big long explanation for why Christianity required a strong Monarchy? There was a time when many thought that Christianity and Democracy were incompatible, or at least not ideal at all.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Thinking its time to leave the ME. Give the "Bat Phones" over to the head of states with a note saying "Call us incase needed". Of course they might get a a disconnected message if calling us due to budget cuts

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Jihadin wrote:
Thinking its time to leave the ME. Give the "Bat Phones" over to the head of states with a note saying "Call us incase needed". Of course they might get a a disconnected message if calling us due to budget cuts


Better give them this emergency number 1-800-BITE-ME

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






How is it that this glorified home video is distributed more widely in the Islamic world? Is it offered in Arabic and Farsi? Somehow I doubt it.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Because certain people wanted to make a scene.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

 AustonT wrote:
How is it that this glorified home video is distributed more widely in the Islamic world? Is it offered in Arabic and Farsi? Somehow I doubt it.


Actually it came to prominence after a translated version in Arabic was released online.

The actual origin of this version, if not the entire film, is very murky.

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19572912

and : http://barthsnotes.com/2012/09/13/media-researches-innocence-of-muslims-originators-and-promoters/


With considerable media interest in the authorship of the anti-Islam Innocence of Muslims YouTube video, the AP tracks down one of its originators:
Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, 55, told The Associated Press in an interview outside Los Angeles that he was manager for the company that produced “Innocence of Muslims”…
Nakoula denied he directed the film and said he knew the self-described filmmaker, Sam Bacile. But the cell phone number that AP contacted Tuesday to reach the filmmaker who identified himself as Sam Bacile traced to the same address near Los Angeles where AP found Nakoula. Federal court papers said Nakoula’s aliases included Nicola Bacily, Erwin Salameh and others.
The only reasonable conclusion from this is that Nakoula is Bacile. And it seems that Nakoula – who has a fraud conviction – is playing some sort of game: the “Sam Bacile” persona described himself to journalists as being an “Israeli Jew”, and he claimed that “100 Jewish donors” had contributed to the short film’s production. Presumably the motive is that this will incite acts of anti-Semitism, thus exposing “true” Muslim attitudes (aspects of a vigilante syndrome I’ve seen before).
The AP account also draws attention to Steve Klein, “a Christian activist involved in the film project”. At the Atlantic, Jeffrey Goldberg reports speaking with him:
He said Bacile contacted him because he leads anti-Islam protests outside of mosques and schools, and because, he said, he is a Vietnam veteran and an expert on uncovering al Qaeda cells in California. “After 9/11 I went out to look for terror cells in California and found them, piece of cake. Sam found out about me. The Middle East Christian and Jewish communities trust me.”
…I asked him who he thought Sam Bacile was. He said that there are about 15 people associated with the making of the film, “Nobody is anything but an active American citizen. They’re from Syria, Turkey, Pakistan, they’re some that are from Egypt. Some are Copts but the vast majority are Evangelical.”
It should be noted that tone of the Innocence of Muslims is crude and satirical – there is nothing suggestive of a religious motivation, and the actors, according to the AP, claim that they were lied to about the film’s subject matter.
The Southern Poverty Law Center has further details about Klein, who is involved with militia groups:
Klein has been waging his own holy war since 1977, when he founded Courageous Christians United (CCU), a group that conducts “respectful confrontations” outside of abortion clinics, Mormon temples and mosques.
…Klein now heads Concerned Citizens for the First Amendment, which has been designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The group recently partnered with the ironically named Christian Anti-Defamation Commission to leaflet California high schools with material depicting the prophet Mohammad as a sex-crazed pedophile.
…He runs drills with the Christian Guardians, a San Francisco-based group headed by Andrew Saqib James, an American-born Pakistani Christian who calls Islam “a giant crime syndicate” and hopes his group will become “the most feared militia in the world.” The trainings, which allegedly take place at the Church at Kaweah’s sprawling central California compound, are described as a “unique system of learning how to survive the Muslim Brotherhood as we teach the Christian Morality of Biblical Warfare.”
The Fresno Bee has further details on the church (also sometimes called “the Church of Kaweah”):
The church at Kaweah — it uses a lower-case “c” in its name — is a rustic, one-story building off a rural foothill road just west of Sequoia National Park.
…Pastor Warren Mark Campbell on Wednesday confirmed that Klein has spoken twice, in 2010 and 2011, at The church at Kaweah: “He came to our church and spoke to us on Islam and the history of Islam and problems with jihad in America and around the world. He’s a specialist on the subject of Islam.”
…Klein is not a member of The church at Kaweah, Campbell said. But he refused to answer questions about the church’s relationship with Klein.
The church at Kaweah is the focus of the Southern Poverty Law Center Spring 2012 intelligence report, which states that it teaches far-right views and trains a militia.
Campbell blasted the report as “full of lies and distortions. They never met with me or anyone.”
These kinds of connections might suggest that Klein is a marginal figure, but Max Blumenthal notes links to better-known activists:
It appears Klein (or someone who shares his name and views) is an enthusiastic commenter on [Pam] Geller’s website, Atlas Shrugged, where he recently complained about Mitt Romney’s “support for a Muslim state in Israel’s Heartland.” In July 2011, Spencer’s website, Jihad Watch, promoted a rally Klein organized alongside the anti-Muslim Coptic extremist Joseph Nasrallah to demand the firing of LA County Sheriff Lee Baca, whom they painted as a dupe for Hamas.
I discussed Nasralla in June 2010 here, after he took part in Geller’s anti-mosque protest in New York (he came to wide attention because he had been mistaken for a Muslim and abused). As reports note, Klein has a programme, entitled Wake Up America, on Nasralla’s The Way TV station.
The AP also notes the involvement of two other familiar individuals:
The AP located Bacile after obtaining his cell phone number from Morris Sadek, a conservative Coptic Christian in the U.S. who had promoted the anti-Muslim film in recent days on his website. Egypt’s Christian Coptic population has long decried what they describe as a history of discrimination and occasional violence from the country’s Arab majority.
Pastor Terry Jones of Gainesville, Fla., who burned Qurans on the ninth anniversary of 9/11, said he spoke with the movie’s director on the phone Wednesday and prayed for him.
As I discussed Sadek and his links to Jones here.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 13:51:29


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

The video was originally created by a US based person in English and later subtitled in Arabic by an Egyptian Copt.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 AustonT wrote:
How is it that this glorified home video is distributed more widely in the Islamic world? Is it offered in Arabic and Farsi? Somehow I doubt it.


The trailer was recently translated into Arabic. Interested parties are using it.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

 Frazzled wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Seaward wrote:
 dogma wrote:
Not so much a clusterfeth as "Oh no, the embassy is being approached by an angry mob, how can we prevent them from doing something really bad!?!"

You let the embassy Marines standing around with you go weapons free. The embassy's sovereign US territory. You don't get to storm it, tear down the flag, and replace it with your own. You definitely do not get to kill an ambassador.

Someone remind me again why we haven't just glassed that whole region? We always need more off-site parking.


Now the lefties on this board will sya you ar e bad you should feel bad.

I guess a more moderate response would be just everyone get the hell out.


Actually, for once, I think that's the perfectly appropriate response. Well, maybe not the 'glassed that whole region' argument, but the weapons free one.

The only reason that some humans subscribe to is pontificated from the barrel of a gun.

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These people just wanted an excuse.

They are so unlike most of us in the West.
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

Dbrown98 wrote:
These people just wanted an excuse.

They are so unlike most of us in the West.


Who are "these people"?

Go ahead, tell us how you really feel...
   
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Kilkrazy wrote:The video was originally created by a US based person in English and later subtitled in Arabic by an Egyptian Copt.

Have you seen it in either language? It's so incredibly bad I can't believe anyone can take it seriously. Kind of like how I don't take Gaza TV seriously.
Dbrown98 wrote:These people just wanted an excuse.

They are so unlike most of us in the West.

I'm hoping the second half was meant to be sarcastic.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
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 Henners91 wrote:
It has been pointed out to me that I confused Cairo and Benghazi.

I thus misled my fellow Dakkaites by implying that the US Ambassador to Libya had been killed in Cairo. My shame for doing so is great and unbearable.

I thus consider my entire argument invalidated down to its very core; not a single valid point can be salvaged if you mix up place names.

May mine be a cautionary tale to others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 d-usa wrote:

And just for the people that like to call for a nuclear strike against the entire region:

Spoiler:










Collateral Damage.


That is some serious courage right there, holding a sign like that I think could get those people marked and killed. There was a comment earlier in this thread about putting one's body where one's mouth is. These people are doing just that for the sake of letting us know they feel sorrow for what's happening around them.
It's their world and I'm just livin' in it.
   
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 d-usa wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 sebster wrote:
Spoiler:
 whembly wrote:
What do you mean there? Sure, if we're responsible enough say what we believe freely, then we should be expected to accept any responses to those belief.

Is that what you meant by "responsibility?


I mean that while you are free to say whatever you want without government censure, you still need to ask yourself if it really needs to be said.

I am, afterall, free to tell my mother-in-law she is fat, but I should first of all ask myself if I really need to say it. Similarly, you or I or anyone is free to make a movie about Mohammed being a pedophile, but we should all ask ourselves if the harm and possible offence caused is really worth it.

Freedom makes an action possible, but it doesn't excuse that action if it was the wrong thing to do.


Sure... as a figurehead, Obama can say that, but he has no power to do anything about it... it's protected speech.

As Ben Franklin famously said:
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it



Nor did Obama suggest or imply that he was going to do anything about it. There are important principles outside of purely law enforcement. Having the head of state come out and say 'that kind film is not what this country is about' is important.

You're right... I agree with this...

I'm more of a "stand by" what you said/done kind of thing...

But, I want to clarify that last statement:
'that kind film is not what this country is about'... no, but we're the kind of country that allows it...

That's the difference...


So Obama should go on TV and say "It is our right to make inflammatory videos that serve no purpose other than to throw a match into dry grass, and we will do it again and again because we don't care how you feel about it."

No... that's not what I'm asking.

It's really not that hard. He can say that the values in that film are not our values... that's fine and I have no problem with that... but he also needs to reaffirm that our government respects religion, religious expression, and religious pluralism and the government is not in the business of approving or regulating (for the most part) the private speech of our citizens. That was a missed opportunity there.

But you know, since a night's sleep I've calmed down. I don't think it's fair to criticize" balls-to-the-wall" on the Administration... yes, there were mistakes, lets acknowledge them, address them and move on.

The rests of your posts are pretty much just regurgitations of conservative talking heads telling you why you should be angry about something Obama said. You are making Frazzled sound like MSNBC, so that's a skill. I don't put anybody on ignore, but I make a choice not to interact with some people, I think your posts are getting there.

I like debating you...

You're not going to believe me... but I think it's funny that I get my news from FoxNews... I really don't go there simply because I dislike their website format (ugh, doesn't anyone else think it's bad?). I usually go to CNN/Yahoo/BBC...

*Don't you think you were too harsh on Frazzle? MSNBC? ugh, really dislike that site.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jihadin wrote:
Thinking its time to leave the ME. Give the "Bat Phones" over to the head of states with a note saying "Call us incase needed". Of course they might get a a disconnected message if calling us due to budget cuts

So if we did that... what would happen?

Wouldn't Russia/China step into the void? Is that a bad thing though? The ME is practically in their backyard and I don't think they want the situations to get out of hand any more than we do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 14:45:41


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 AustonT wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:The video was originally created by a US based person in English and later subtitled in Arabic by an Egyptian Copt.

Have you seen it in either language? It's so incredibly bad I can't believe anyone can take it seriously. Kind of like how I don't take Gaza TV seriously.
Dbrown98 wrote:These people just wanted an excuse.

They are so unlike most of us in the West.

I'm hoping the second half was meant to be sarcastic.


Yes. I couldn't stand to watch more than a couple of minutes, it is so crappy.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

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