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Destroyer Lord and whip coil wraiths

MSS from the Dlord, if the dreadknight fails it watch him kill himself with his own forceweapon (the faq proves this is ok)
If he passes, you strike first bc of whipcoils. the warscythe and lots of rending from the wraiths couples with prefered enemy can easily take him down.
If he is still alive, 3++ on the wraiths will keep them alive.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:


Uh, in the characteristic test section (Pg. 7) it says "you roll a d6 and compare the result to the relevant characteristic in the models profile". Under models with multiple profiles it states that a model with more than one value for the same characteristic will always use the higher value (which also means that now powerfist wielding marines will test against str 8 instead of 4 for the monoliths portal of exile).

This is entirely incorrect. If you wish ask this question in YMDC and see what answer you get.

No, I won't start a thread on it because I know my answer. Basically what you're saying would also mean that a unit that is all in b2b with wraiths would also roll against Init 1 for sweeping advance. As you say, since it's a set value, it's not modified (even though it falls under the modifiers section).

(FYI, that's not how that is played either)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I'd disagree with the S8 part. The model does not get S8 when wielding an energy fist, it attacks with S8. It's profile value still is 4.

Mm, well you might be right on that considering it's a weapon strength value and not a model strength value. Ok, bad example on that. I suppose hulked out Orikan is a better example. But that's also obvious what you'd use in that case.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:


Uh, in the characteristic test section (Pg. 7) it says "you roll a d6 and compare the result to the relevant characteristic in the models profile". Under models with multiple profiles it states that a model with more than one value for the same characteristic will always use the higher value (which also means that now powerfist wielding marines will test against str 8 instead of 4 for the monoliths portal of exile).

This is entirely incorrect. If you wish ask this question in YMDC and see what answer you get.

*Looks around* That's where I am. Though I know you meant a new thread.

No, I won't start a thread on it because I know my answer. Basically what you're saying would also mean that a unit that is all in b2b with wraiths would also roll against Init 1 for sweeping advance. As you say, since it's a set value, it's not modified (even though it falls under the modifiers section).

(FYI, that's not how that is played either)

You are in a tactics thread.

Sweeping Advance is different as is specifies "...unmodified Initiative". Time's Arrow has no such restriction. "Set Value Modifier" is language specifically used by GW in the FAQ.

Here is your YMDC answer even if you don't want to ask it: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/410918.page#3575301

 Kevin949 wrote:


Mm, well you might be right on that considering it's a weapon strength value and not a model strength value. Ok, bad example on that. I suppose hulked out Orikan is a better example. But that's also obvious what you'd use in that case.

You are forced to use his better profile anyway because the codex explicitely asks you to use his second profile instead

Moronic Nonsense wrote:
Destroyer Lord and whip coil wraiths

MSS from the Dlord, if the dreadknight fails it watch him kill himself with his own forceweapon (the faq proves this is ok)
If he passes, you strike first bc of whipcoils. the warscythe and lots of rending from the wraiths couples with prefered enemy can easily take him down.
If he is still alive, 3++ on the wraiths will keep them alive.

Someone suggested this earlier but I'm pretty sure the DreadKnight can use one of it's Psychic Powers like Dark Excommunication during either players turn before blows are strucked using up his only Warp Charge.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

You are in a tactics thread.

Ya, I realized that after the fact.

 Sushi636 wrote:

Moronic Nonsense wrote:
Destroyer Lord and whip coil wraiths

MSS from the Dlord, if the dreadknight fails it watch him kill himself with his own forceweapon (the faq proves this is ok)
If he passes, you strike first bc of whipcoils. the warscythe and lots of rending from the wraiths couples with prefered enemy can easily take him down.
If he is still alive, 3++ on the wraiths will keep them alive.

Someone suggested this earlier but I'm pretty sure the DreadKnight can use one of it's Psychic Powers like Dark Excommunication during either players turn before blows are strucked using up his only Warp Charge.

Check your order of operations. Psychic powers occur at the same time as MSS. So if it's the GK turn, go ahead and cast a power first, it's players choice, but during the Necron Player's turn you will have no such advantage as the Necron player can choose for MSS to go off first.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Sushi636 wrote:

Moronic Nonsense wrote:
Destroyer Lord and whip coil wraiths

MSS from the Dlord, if the dreadknight fails it watch him kill himself with his own forceweapon (the faq proves this is ok)
If he passes, you strike first bc of whipcoils. the warscythe and lots of rending from the wraiths couples with prefered enemy can easily take him down.
If he is still alive, 3++ on the wraiths will keep them alive.

Someone suggested this earlier but I'm pretty sure the DreadKnight can use one of it's Psychic Powers like Dark Excommunication during either players turn before blows are strucked using up his only Warp Charge.

Check your order of operations. Psychic powers occur at the same time as MSS. So if it's the GK turn, go ahead and cast a power first, it's players choice, but during the Necron Player's turn you will have no such advantage as the Necron player can choose for MSS to go off first.

Where can I find this information? This is the best news I've heard all day

 Sushi636 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Sushi636 wrote:

Moronic Nonsense wrote:
Destroyer Lord and whip coil wraiths

MSS from the Dlord, if the dreadknight fails it watch him kill himself with his own forceweapon (the faq proves this is ok)
If he passes, you strike first bc of whipcoils. the warscythe and lots of rending from the wraiths couples with prefered enemy can easily take him down.
If he is still alive, 3++ on the wraiths will keep them alive.

Someone suggested this earlier but I'm pretty sure the DreadKnight can use one of it's Psychic Powers like Dark Excommunication during either players turn before blows are strucked using up his only Warp Charge.

Check your order of operations. Psychic powers occur at the same time as MSS. So if it's the GK turn, go ahead and cast a power first, it's players choice, but during the Necron Player's turn you will have no such advantage as the Necron player can choose for MSS to go off first.

Where can I find this information? This is the best news I've heard all day

Page 9 of the rule book section named Exceptions.

"At other times, you'll find that both players will have to do something at the same time. When these things happen, the player whose turn it is decides the order in which the events occur. "

You may even be able to argue that MSS is something you have to do, whereas casting a Psychic Power is something you choose to do, and MSS would rightfully always go first but I'm not sure how much that argument will hold water.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

You may even be able to argue that MSS is something you have to do, whereas casting a Psychic Power is something you choose to do, and MSS would rightfully always go first but I'm not sure how much that argument will hold water.

It doesn't hold water at all. Please note that MSS going before psychic powers is advantageous to GK player, not Necron player.

Luide wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

You may even be able to argue that MSS is something you have to do, whereas casting a Psychic Power is something you choose to do, and MSS would rightfully always go first but I'm not sure how much that argument will hold water.

It doesn't hold water at all. Please note that MSS going before psychic powers is advantageous to GK player, not Necron player.

Perhaps, but against the Dreadknight having the Mindshackle Scarabs going first and using it's Warp Charge is a huge advantageous for the Necron player.

 NecronLord3 wrote:


You may even be able to argue that MSS is something you have to do, whereas casting a Psychic Power is something you choose to do, and MSS would rightfully always go first but I'm not sure how much that argument will hold water.

Just like how challenges are something that are a choice to issue or not, yet the player whose turn it is gets to decide whether MSS or the challenge go off first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sushi636 wrote:

Luide wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

You may even be able to argue that MSS is something you have to do, whereas casting a Psychic Power is something you choose to do, and MSS would rightfully always go first but I'm not sure how much that argument will hold water.

It doesn't hold water at all. Please note that MSS going before psychic powers is advantageous to GK player, not Necron player.

Perhaps, but against the Dreadknight having the Mindshackle Scarabs going first and using it's Warp Charge is a huge advantageous for the Necron player.

against a destroyer lord the warp change being used really depends about passing or failing MSS. If he fails, he might eat his own force weapon, but if he passes he can ID the destroyer lord, who being T6 are not ID by str10.

50 / 50

Luide wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

You may even be able to argue that MSS is something you have to do, whereas casting a Psychic Power is something you choose to do, and MSS would rightfully always go first but I'm not sure how much that argument will hold water.

It doesn't hold water at all. Please note that MSS going before psychic powers is advantageous to GK player, not Necron player.

There is no advantage for the GK player. The same abilities can be activated if I didn't have the MSS can all. If you had a unit of GK facing my Wraiths, I wouldn't force the activation of Force weapons if it potentially meant a whole squad ID'ing multiple models of mine. You would smartly only do this when based by units that are single models, and could therefore only ID themselves. Also, if your MSS are on a foot lord attached to a squad of 1 Wound models you would also be safe to activate the Force Weapons on a squad as most of your modesl are 1 wound anyway, and ID doesn't effect RP and you usually challenge with a MSS Lord because it is a good gamble to force opposing characters to at worst only kill your lord (who has a 50% chance of getting up with an Orb), not participate in the combat, or the best result kill themselves outright.

 Sushi636 wrote:

Luide wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
You may even be able to argue that MSS is something you have to do, whereas casting a Psychic Power is something you choose to do, and MSS would rightfully always go first but I'm not sure how much that argument will hold water.

It doesn't hold water at all. Please note that MSS going before psychic powers is advantageous to GK player, not Necron player.

Perhaps, but against the Dreadknight having the Mindshackle Scarabs going first and using it's Warp Charge is a huge advantageous for the Necron player.

You're missing the point. Necron player can never activate force weapon of semi-competent GK player. There are only two options and they work out exactly same:
1) MSS goes first. If MSS succeeds, GK player spends the warp charge on Hammerhand. No Warp charges are left for Force Weapon activation -> GK player cannot ID himself.
2) MSS goes second. To be safe, GK player spends warp charge on Hammerhand before MSS. No Warp charges are left for Force Weapon activation -> GK player cannot ID himself.

Fact that current player can choose to resolve MSS first, does not stop GK player from using his psychic powers.

Fake-edit: There are some specific character setups in C:GK that cannot burn all their Warp Charges during enemy turn. Inquisitors who have exchanged their powers for BRB ones, for example.