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Ye we live in the darkness and shrouded mystery of what will come.
I guess we will have to wait for next week to get a glimpse into the future.

 Sasori wrote:
I can See the Warp Talons being Good, if they have a Higher Init, themselves.

I mean, I would think Jumppacks, 3+/5++/LCs, and Probably 2 base attacks, is pretty decent, if they have a higher init. They would shred most things without a 2+.

We'll see though. It's really hard to evaluate these things, when we're just getting bits and pieces.

Edit: Disregard, mistoke Raptors and Warp Talons.

Teh Warp Talons coudl be good.

A couple of what ifs that might change the way they work:

What if....
1) ...they only scatter 1D6? Suddenly Deep Strike is more attractive and reliable
2) ...they dont scatter at all if there is an icon/banner/etc within a certain range?
3) ...they can attack from Deep Strike? At a base of 30 points doesn't that put then in the Vanguard point range?

We are dealing with rumours and hearsay right now. Slammign anything based on a such little info is perhaps not the best plan.

on Defilers - if they become more survivable (with the regen and incul) then that could explain the price hike. I have my Defiler setup with 2 Extra DCCW and a battlecannon - charge in whiel droppgn pieplates. The main issue for me was it rarely survived to make it into combat with someting approriately squishy.

If you increase it's survivability (and can give it marks like the recent FW models - whcih seems to be the way thgins are going) - then you might see a massive difference wheer Defiler are actually soemthing to be worried about.


EDIT - also - with cover now coming from 25% obscured it will be easier to give them cover saves too.

Let's try to save full judgement discussions until we actually see the rules, saying something sucks in rumor form is a little silly and even providing "facts" to rumors starts to get a little funny.

I can see situations where NL Raptors (as described) are useful but may require a lot of finesse to use. In any case, they offer a themed unit previously unavailable and while I won't use any myself, I know of a few people who are chomping at the bits for a fluffy unit.

I am skeptical of some Thousand Sons details.. I don't have a problem with the current book, I just want something new. I bet things will suck about the new ones, but I am exited to be fielding the first Level 4.

Man you guys are so negative. We're gettin a new codex!

Wowsmash, you must be new to Dakka, where the sky is always falling.

 lunarman wrote:
Warp Talons don't sound good at all.
30 ppm, for a 3+/5++ with lightning claws just isn't good. Unless they're toughness 5, or 2+ armour save, or even two wounds. I can't see what they'd be good at killing.

They're a glass cannon that doesn't even put out much hurt in combat.

I hate how designers apparently think a 5++ save on a unit is enough to make it viable.

Possessed are crap? slap on a 5++ and call it a day.

Mandrakes are too squishy? Change their save to a 5++ and now they are balanced!

Defilers getting insta-punked by any and all lascannons? Ehh, a 5++ works here. It's not like they can ever cover 25% of their mass now for an easier save or hang behind an aegis like, right?

As for It Will Not Die, it works a lot better on things with wounds and other stuff that can't just die instantly from a flying multi-melta or drop-pod sternguard combi-meltas.

 Ozymandias wrote:
Wowsmash, you must be new to Dakka, where the sky is always falling.

It's part of the Dakka standard wargear.


Every Dakkanaught gets a 4+ Pinch of Salt save.

When you suffer a Falling Sky hit, roll a D6 - on a 4+ the hit is ignored as per the Pinch of Salt save. On a 1-3 panic insues - you automatically fail common sense tests for the next 2 weeks and get +7 to your negativity stat.

Praxiss you made my day. That might have to go in my signature if you don't mind.

I'm gonna get sigged!!! i'm so proud.

I just hope raptors can get marks and the like, I made a FW nurgle raptor squad(got the possessed wing backpacks) and I hope to finally be able to use them.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/whats-up-for-pre-order-on-saturday-22nd.html

Facebook GW posted about the new WD direction but also something awesome to pre order on the 22nd

Just realised I will be away for the release but I guess it means I dont have to pay extra for quick postage

 Leth wrote:
I just hope raptors can get marks and the like, I made a FW nurgle raptor squad(got the possessed wing backpacks) and I hope to finally be able to use them.

I don't know why they wouldn't. I assume all infantry/MCs get access to all marks outside of cult units.

Damn, shouldnt have gotten my hopes for pictures today :( I fear we may be waiting till monday.

Come to think of it anyone know what the reddit page is were that guy had the past 2 WD's early and was telling what was inside on reddit?

 aka_mythos wrote:
I'd pose it's not the defiler over costed it's so many other things undercosted.

If everyone else is "tall" then guess what? You're short.

 Ozymandias wrote:
Wowsmash, you must be new to Dakka, where the sky is always falling.

Well, in all fairness this is CSM we're talking about here. I mean, have you seen their current codex? I heard it's a POS!

There's an old saying on Dakka - I know it's in Texas, probably on Dakka - that says, fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again.

Does anyone know how old the Current Terminator Kit is? I know it's plastic, but I'm wondering if we can possible expect a new kit.

I know someone mentioned in the last thread, that the Troop CSMs came out in 2006, so we probably won't get a new kit for them.

I'm pretty sure the chaos terminators are even newer than those recut chaos marines.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I'd pose it's not the defiler over costed it's so many other things undercosted.

If everyone else is "tall" then guess what? You're short.

Accept to take that position ignores that there is a baseline average that is balanced. It's also a matter of who or what is at fault with relation to all other units and not just the relativistic comparison of two like units in a vacuum insulated from the rest of the game.

 aka_mythos wrote:

If everyone else is "tall" then guess what? You're short.

Accept to take that position ignores that there is a baseline average that is balanced. It's also a matter of who or what is at fault with relation to all other units and not just the relativistic comparison of two like units in a vacuum insulated from the rest of the game.

 Sephyr wrote:


The one guy out of 10 running a marathon without steroids may well be a more balanced and healthy athlete than the others. He's still finishing last.

So you're saying using imbalanced units are as unethical as cheating... I can get behind that.

 Sasori wrote:
Does anyone know how old the Current Terminator Kit is? I know it's plastic, but I'm wondering if we can possible expect a new kit.

I know someone mentioned in the last thread, that the Troop CSMs came out in 2006, so we probably won't get a new kit for them.

Same age. 2006 saw the current Chaos Marines, Terminators, Terminator Lord, and Possessed models. I honestly think all these models have aged very well, even if the Chaos Marines pale compared to the DV Chosen.

Yeah, I don't think we'll get a new terminator kit any time soon. The models themselves look pretty good, but the sprues are just terrible. There aren't even enough power weapons and boltguns to make a bare bones squad....

IIRC:
Three Boltguns
Combi Flamer (really?)
Comb Melta
Reaper
Heavy Flamer

Then:
Three power weapons (or maybe four... I know there's two axes and a mace)
Two Power Fists
Tentacle (again, really?)
Chainfist

Zero Redundancy. It's like they built the kit for little kids who just want cool looking evilscarymarines. IMO, it's actually a better investment to buy five terminator lords, which come with everything besides the daemon weapon.

That aside, the base models look decent, and I wouldn't mind buying them over again, if they had an extra sprue to make up for the lack of weapons. I mean, look at Grey Knights. The kit comes with every option in the unit entry, and multiples of them too!

I think it's a better investment to get a box of Terminators and a single Terminator lord so you don't end up spending $125 for a squad of five dudes! The lord's got more than enough bits to deck out a squad pretty well.

 Brother SRM wrote:
I think it's a better investment to get a box of Terminators and a single Terminator lord so you don't end up spending $125 for a squad of five dudes! The lord's got more than enough bits to deck out a squad pretty well.

I just thought of the absurdity of five terminator lords, all on the rock piece, all in the same pose, all with capes and skulls and spikes....

You're right

Brother SRM wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Does anyone know how old the Current Terminator Kit is? I know it's plastic, but I'm wondering if we can possible expect a new kit.

I know someone mentioned in the last thread, that the Troop CSMs came out in 2006, so we probably won't get a new kit for them.

Same age. 2006 saw the current Chaos Marines, Terminators, Terminator Lord, and Possessed models. I honestly think all these models have aged very well, even if the Chaos Marines pale compared to the DV Chosen.

Y'all say the current CSM troop sprues was released in 2006 but I remember buying the same basic set back in 2002- same spikey torso, legs, heads, arms, and backpack as the 2006 release. I think the 2006 dudes just have new spikey bits. Before 2002 I was buying the one-piece torso-head-legs models.

Well. If I was to dare wish list for a sec, I would hope they make a "Chosen Terminator" box set, that are bassicly the Terminator Versions of thows guys from Dark Vengeance. Then we could get that in addition of the current Termy box, and cover the options we are missing for Termies.

If I can just get a Codex with even have the flavor and room for customization that the 3.5 Codex had, I'll be happy. I don't need a face-stomping monster of a Codex. I just want something that can hold its own and feel like Chaos. I'm sick of playing vanilla Marines with Spikes. Except our vehicle options are worse.

themonk wrote:
Y'all say the current CSM troop sprues was released in 2006 but I remember buying the same basic set back in 2002- same spikey torso, legs, heads, arms, and backpack as the 2006 release. I think the 2006 dudes just have new spikey bits. Before 2002 I was buying the one-piece torso-head-legs models.

What they did was recut the molds, taking advantage of improvements in technology and making room for the inclusion of more bits. Same models with extra bits.

 aka_mythos wrote:

themonk wrote:
Y'all say the current CSM troop sprues was released in 2006 but I remember buying the same basic set back in 2002- same spikey torso, legs, heads, arms, and backpack as the 2006 release. I think the 2006 dudes just have new spikey bits. Before 2002 I was buying the one-piece torso-head-legs models.

What they did was recut the molds, taking advantage of improvements in technology and making room for the inclusion of more bits. Same models with extra bits.

And with some extra detail involved. They are largely the same, but the same thing happened to Tactical Marines and Ork Boyz.

The CSM, Possessed and Terminators are all from 2007, not 2006. I wouldn't expect any new plastics for them. I'd expect something for Raptors and Havocs as well as something for Chosen.

Starting to get really anxious with the leaks. Oh wait I am already just sitting here clicking refresh every few minutes, I am already very anxious. Someone tell Tzeentch to get off his lazy arse and give us some pics.