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Well my favoured unit was:

10 Marines
Champion
Powefist
Combi-Melta
2 x Melta
IoCG
Rhino

265 points.

From what i've seen so far, and based on the fact that melta is not quite so essential now, i am sure i can easily come up with an effective unit of CSM for less points in the new codex.

For our basic guys I see a bunch of potential.

10 Marines
2 Plasma
Mark of Tzeentch

(180)

- Awesome, cheap, shooty unit that you can mount in a rhino or walk upfield with their 3+/5++

10 Marines
Champ w/powersword
CCW, Bolter, BP
2 Meltaguns
Vets of the Long War
Mark of Khorne
Rhino

(250)

- A ubiquitous unit perfect for getting up close and personal that can deal with anything. Get out, shoot the bolters and metaguns, then charge next turn or wait to use the counter-attack.

Of course I need to see the internal balance but I think our vanilla guys got a pretty good boost personally.

Two hundred and fifty is a lot of points!
I guess we are moving away from the MSU necessity, but that's still a lot for a mediocre scoring unit!

...I want to know how Enhanced Warriors work, is it an upgrade or a unit... With fearless and extra strength I can see those becoming quite potent if they can take marks and icons.

I been paying about that much for a 9 man squad of Ksons ... and they get to keep their fearless, all have ap3 bolters, 4++ save, and tack on a psyker for fun.

For those complaining about the lack of Alpha Legion stuff, you could always take Abaddon as your HQ to make Chosen Troops. Make Abaddon a count-as Alpharius or other Alpha Legion Chaos Lord. Assuming Chosen still Infiltrate, that's a perfect Alpha Legion force.


That's my plan, anyways.

 buddha wrote:
For our basic guys I see a bunch of potential.

10 Marines
2 Plasma
Mark of Tzeentch

(180)

- Awesome, cheap, shooty unit that you can mount in a rhino or walk upfield with their 3+/5++

10 Marines
Champ w/powersword
CCW, Bolter, BP
2 Meltaguns
Vets of the Long War
Mark of Khorne
Rhino

(250)

- A ubiquitous unit perfect for getting up close and personal that can deal with anything. Get out, shoot the bolters and metaguns, then charge next turn or wait to use the counter-attack.

Of course I need to see the internal balance but I think our vanilla guys got a pretty good boost personally.

Drop the Bolters for CCW, and the squad's cost drops to 230 which is a much better deal.

Now if I was a "cheesy" player I would definitely be doing this:

Chaos Marine Squad (200 total)
Base Squad-75
5x Extra Marines
2x Plasma Guns
Mark of Nurgle

10 T5 marines, 2 plasma guns. I can't think of too many things that would be harder to kill than that. Or drop a Plasma Gun and add a Lascannon or an Autocannon or a Missile Launcher, depending on preference.

Now compare this to the old codex:

10x Marines: 150 (230 total)
Mark of Nurgle
2x Plasma Guns

Only advantages the old 4th edition "codex" had was +1 LD across the board instead of just the Champion, and additional CCW. Oh no! Who cares? And even if you did give my above example unit a CCW and Veterans of the Long War, they would still have Hatred: Marines as a bonus.

 Darth Bob wrote:
For those complaining about the lack of Alpha Legion stuff, you could always take Abaddon as your HQ to make Chosen Troops. Make Abaddon a count-as Alpharius or other Alpha Legion Chaos Lord. Assuming Chosen still Infiltrate, that's a perfect Alpha Legion force.


That's my plan, anyways.

They don't Infiltrate anymore.

The only instance of Infiltrate I have seen so far comes from Ahriman, which is a bit weird for Alpha Legion coints-as.

 Sephyr wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:
For those complaining about the lack of Alpha Legion stuff, you could always take Abaddon as your HQ to make Chosen Troops. Make Abaddon a count-as Alpharius or other Alpha Legion Chaos Lord. Assuming Chosen still Infiltrate, that's a perfect Alpha Legion force.


That's my plan, anyways.

They don't Infiltrate anymore.

The only instance of Infiltrate I have seen so far comes from Ahriman, which is a bit weird for Alpha Legion coints-as.

Bummer!

Oh well, I'll still play Alpha Legion. I'm sure I can figure something out. Even if it is Count-As-ing Ahriman, which I will agree feels odd. I'm sure I can find some justification for an Alpha Legion Psyker.

Hopefully there will be more WD rules for legions on the horizons or maybe more specific warband units will be covered in a allies codex supplement.

Another point: 10 marines, 2 plasma, a combi plasma and a rhino with cobi plasma is 225 points. I wonder If that's any good...

I did some massive updates in the Ongoing Rumor Tracker for everything I've seen on Chaos so far. If anyone has been paying more attention and has some free time, feel free to pop over and take a look, give me any corrections/updates.

As a side note, and no big surprise here, certain mongers did not come out well so far (TDG, Ghost21) and others came out very well (Tasty).

 Lucre wrote:
Two hundred and fifty is a lot of points!
I guess we are moving away from the MSU necessity, but that's still a lot for a mediocre scoring unit!

Oh indeed, it's a generalist unit that pays generalist prices to be able to do everything. If anything, it was an example of the unit varieties the new dex allows for the vanilla chaos marines which is great as lack of variety and use basically killed their used in the last dex.

Ultimately, for the unit entry, I'm just happy we are able to take marks as my icons were getting shot to pieces once 6th came out and the points spent often just wasted.

Man, if the adding BP+CC weapon was 1 point, I feel like you'd be just a step within the current power creep.

Right now I'm just hoping that you can get cheap fearless Bolter + Pistol + Close Combat Weapon Noise marines without having to buy expensive sonic weapons. The plague marines might be too expensive to be appropriate stand in's for decent troops anymore with the power creep being what it is.

 Lucre wrote:
Hopefully there will be more WD rules for legions on the horizons or maybe more specific warband units will be covered in a allies codex supplement.

Another point: 10 marines, 2 plasma, a combi plasma and a rhino with cobi plasma is 225 points. I wonder If that's any good...

Sadly, i just can't see them doing an update on legions when they could be releasing and selling something else, but we can hope.
as for that unit, its a lot cheaper than it would have been before, and i think any units that are likely to be close up deserve the extra weapon/marks to make them a bit more flexible. otherwise they are basically just cheap tactical marines (and not as good)

Does seem we can add all the cool stuff first and tailor our CSM to our needs at the end

Yeah, but they do seem to be able to work wonders gouging us for upgrade packs!

CSM players looooooove idiosyncrasies, they could probably just sell like 9 kits: csm, terminators, predator/rhino, dread, cultists, dragon, fiend, lord/sorc, prince and then offer a whole whack of upgrade sprues and we'd gobble them up

 Lucre wrote:
Man, if the adding BP+CC weapon was 1 point, I feel like you'd be just a step within the current power creep.

Right now I'm just hoping that you can get cheap fearless Bolter + Pistol + Close Combat Weapon Noise marines without having to buy expensive sonic weapons. The plague marines might be too expensive to be appropriate stand in's for decent troops anymore with the power creep being what it is.

Yeah 1 point seems vey fair. The fact that most of us (probably) have plague marines/berzerkers already, and the price of the NM/TSupgrade kits, tells me GW will do the usual shift in power. making noise marines better so we all buy them.

Yeah Tasty ended up actually having the book 3 months ago if I remember right.

 Brometheus wrote:
Yeah Tasty ended up actually having the book 3 months ago if I remember right.

I would say a mid-production playtest. He got pretty much all the stats right but was off on points costs by a lot.

Ajroo wrote:

 Lucre wrote:
Hopefully there will be more WD rules for legions on the horizons or maybe more specific warband units will be covered in a allies codex supplement.

Another point: 10 marines, 2 plasma, a combi plasma and a rhino with cobi plasma is 225 points. I wonder If that's any good...

Sadly, i just can't see them doing an update on legions when they could be releasing and selling something else, but we can hope.
as for that unit, its a lot cheaper than it would have been before, and i think any units that are likely to be close up deserve the extra weapon/marks to make them a bit more flexible. otherwise they are basically just cheap tactical marines (and not as good)

Does seem we can add all the cool stuff first and tailor our CSM to our needs at the end

if FW are doign a Horus heresy series, wouldn't that inlcude a shed load of legion specific rules? Obviously not great for Tourney players but might be an answer for friendly games.




The unit entry pics i have seen for the basic marines doesn't actually tell you what the Champion comes with. i think they will be the main issue for me.
in the previous 'dex, a Champion with power weapnos and plasma pistol woudl set you back 45 points. The new unit entry has the Champion at 23 points and then says "may take items from the melee and ranged armoury"....

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Yeah Tasty ended up actually having the book 3 months ago if I remember right.

I would say a mid-production playtest. He got pretty much all the stats right but was off on points costs by a lot.

Yeah, I was surprised at how accurate he has ended up being so far. I'm afraid that by leaking so much he may have screwed himself in the future though.

Can anyone confirm the weapon loadout options for Chosen?
Can they still take 5x Melta or Plasma?

 Praxiss wrote:

if FW are doign a Horus heresy series, wouldn't that inlcude a shed load of legion specific rules? Obviously not great for Tourney players but might be an answer for friendly games.

The unit entry pics i have seen for the basic marines doesn't actually tell you what the Champion comes with. i think they will be the main issue for me.
in the previous 'dex, a Champion with power weapnos and plasma pistol woudl set you back 45 points. The new unit entry has the Champion at 23 points and then says "may take items from the melee and ranged armoury"....

yeah i reckon he will have options of the normal PF/PW/Combi ect. plus hopefully the option of maybe some of the blessings/abilities. some of which we may not have acess to yet.

 Darklight wrote:
Can anyone confirm the weapon loadout options for Chosen?
Can they still take 5x Melta or Plasma?

Nope, no more "Chosen Havocs."

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Darklight wrote:
Can anyone confirm the weapon loadout options for Chosen?
Can they still take 5x Melta or Plasma?

Nope, no more "Chosen Havocs."

Where did this come from!?

Are more scans floating about?

Someone squinted really hard at the Elites page in WD.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Someone squinted really hard at the Elites page in WD.

I don't have the White Dwarf.

I haven't bought the fancy catalog for quite awhile.

Anyone notice on darog's company blog that our power axes are unwieldy but only add +1 strength. Isn't it +2 in the main book?

Nope, that's mauls.

The +2 S is power mauls, axe is +1S

bogalubov wrote:
Anyone notice on darog's company blog that our power axes are unwieldy but only add +1 strength. Isn't it +2 in the main book?

That's what I get for not waiting 5 minutes to get to my rulebook.