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 pretre wrote:

drbored wrote:
3 Maulerfiends (135 points apiece) charging up with a Warpsmith in the middles. They have It Will Not Die, which gives them a 5+ repair, and the Warpsmith with Mechatendrils will give them another 4+ repair, should they start taking a lot of damage... The Maulerfiends will be able to start assaulting things turn 1 if they can move 12 inches and manage to get a 12 inch charge if someone deployed right on the 24" line. Being able to make 2 repair rolls is going to be potent.. and that's only going to take up a third of your army, leaving plenty of points leftover.

This is mostly okay except for the first turn charge. By definition, you have to be over 24" away during deployment (24.000001"). So moving 12 and charging 12 would never result in a first turn charge unless someone misplaced models during deployment or fudged movement.

You start that oval base sideways at max deployment and turn one pivot the model on its center, presto you are now under 24" away

 Red Corsair wrote:

 pretre wrote:

drbored wrote:
3 Maulerfiends (135 points apiece) charging up with a Warpsmith in the middles. They have It Will Not Die, which gives them a 5+ repair, and the Warpsmith with Mechatendrils will give them another 4+ repair, should they start taking a lot of damage... The Maulerfiends will be able to start assaulting things turn 1 if they can move 12 inches and manage to get a 12 inch charge if someone deployed right on the 24" line. Being able to make 2 repair rolls is going to be potent.. and that's only going to take up a third of your army, leaving plenty of points leftover.

This is mostly okay except for the first turn charge. By definition, you have to be over 24" away during deployment (24.000001"). So moving 12 and charging 12 would never result in a first turn charge unless someone misplaced models during deployment or fudged movement.

You start that oval base sideways at max deployment and turn one pivot the model on its center, presto you are now under 24" away

You just broke the Maulerfiend

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 pretre wrote:

drbored wrote:
3 Maulerfiends (135 points apiece) charging up with a Warpsmith in the middles. They have It Will Not Die, which gives them a 5+ repair, and the Warpsmith with Mechatendrils will give them another 4+ repair, should they start taking a lot of damage... The Maulerfiends will be able to start assaulting things turn 1 if they can move 12 inches and manage to get a 12 inch charge if someone deployed right on the 24" line. Being able to make 2 repair rolls is going to be potent.. and that's only going to take up a third of your army, leaving plenty of points leftover.

This is mostly okay except for the first turn charge. By definition, you have to be over 24" away during deployment (24.000001"). So moving 12 and charging 12 would never result in a first turn charge unless someone misplaced models during deployment or fudged movement.

You start that oval base sideways at max deployment and turn one pivot the model on its center, presto you are now under 24" away

You just broke the Maulerfiend

Lol, I actually suggested doing this with triple Mauler fiends 15 pages or so ago....No one listened though ha ha


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Keep in mind you are realistically only gona get the charge turn two anyway, only turn one if you go second..

Someone on warseer who's got access to some parts of the codex offered the following regarding the helbrute's loadout:
warseer post

A few posts up you can see which units can get a mark (the helbrute cannot).

 Red Corsair wrote:

 pretre wrote:

drbored wrote:
3 Maulerfiends (135 points apiece) charging up with a Warpsmith in the middles. They have It Will Not Die, which gives them a 5+ repair, and the Warpsmith with Mechatendrils will give them another 4+ repair, should they start taking a lot of damage... The Maulerfiends will be able to start assaulting things turn 1 if they can move 12 inches and manage to get a 12 inch charge if someone deployed right on the 24" line. Being able to make 2 repair rolls is going to be potent.. and that's only going to take up a third of your army, leaving plenty of points leftover.

This is mostly okay except for the first turn charge. By definition, you have to be over 24" away during deployment (24.000001"). So moving 12 and charging 12 would never result in a first turn charge unless someone misplaced models during deployment or fudged movement.

You start that oval base sideways at max deployment and turn one pivot the model on its center, presto you are now under 24" away

Except that the 'fiend models appear to be on round bases.





Just re-reading the WD battle report - it looks like the dragon DOES get the Hover rule after all. Although i'm not sure why you'd want to.

 Praxiss wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 pretre wrote:

drbored wrote:
3 Maulerfiends (135 points apiece) charging up with a Warpsmith in the middles. They have It Will Not Die, which gives them a 5+ repair, and the Warpsmith with Mechatendrils will give them another 4+ repair, should they start taking a lot of damage... The Maulerfiends will be able to start assaulting things turn 1 if they can move 12 inches and manage to get a 12 inch charge if someone deployed right on the 24" line. Being able to make 2 repair rolls is going to be potent.. and that's only going to take up a third of your army, leaving plenty of points leftover.

This is mostly okay except for the first turn charge. By definition, you have to be over 24" away during deployment (24.000001"). So moving 12 and charging 12 would never result in a first turn charge unless someone misplaced models during deployment or fudged movement.

You start that oval base sideways at max deployment and turn one pivot the model on its center, presto you are now under 24" away

Except that the 'fiend models appear to be on round bases.







Just re-reading the WD battle report - it looks like the dragon DOES get the Hover rule after all. Although i'm not sure why you'd want to.

Check your eyes mate, it's on the oval.

 Praxiss wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 pretre wrote:

drbored wrote:
3 Maulerfiends (135 points apiece) charging up with a Warpsmith in the middles. They have It Will Not Die, which gives them a 5+ repair, and the Warpsmith with Mechatendrils will give them another 4+ repair, should they start taking a lot of damage... The Maulerfiends will be able to start assaulting things turn 1 if they can move 12 inches and manage to get a 12 inch charge if someone deployed right on the 24" line. Being able to make 2 repair rolls is going to be potent.. and that's only going to take up a third of your army, leaving plenty of points leftover.

This is mostly okay except for the first turn charge. By definition, you have to be over 24" away during deployment (24.000001"). So moving 12 and charging 12 would never result in a first turn charge unless someone misplaced models during deployment or fudged movement.

You start that oval base sideways at max deployment and turn one pivot the model on its center, presto you are now under 24" away

Except that the 'fiend models appear to be on round bases.





Just re-reading the WD battle report - it looks like the dragon DOES get the Hover rule after all. Although i'm not sure why you'd want to.

More control I would imagine. You can just put it in the back and have it spray S8 attacks all game.

Minx wrote:
Someone on warseer who's got access to some parts of the codex offered the following regarding the helbrute's loadout:
warseer post

A few posts up you can see which units can get a mark (the helbrute cannot).

here;s what the post says in case anyoen can't read it:

power fist
TLHB
Reaper autocannon
plasma cannon
TLLC

fist may have heavy flamer / combibolter

may upgrade PFs to scourge / thunder hammer (one to missile launcher)



So CC weapons: Powerfist, Thunderhammer, Scourge
ranged weapons: TL HB, reaper, TL LC, Plasma Cannon....and, i'm guessing: Missile Launcher, Multimelta

Loks like the only difference bwteen the 'Brute and the Dread is the name....and the changes to Crazed.

Move on, vector something 36" in, spray fire. Turn two enter hover mode so you remain in play and spray more fire I guess :/

 Praxiss wrote:

Minx wrote:
Someone on warseer who's got access to some parts of the codex offered the following regarding the helbrute's loadout:
warseer post

A few posts up you can see which units can get a mark (the helbrute cannot).

here;s what the post says in case anyoen can't read it:

power fist
TLHB
Reaper autocannon
plasma cannon
TLLC

fist may have heavy flamer / combibolter

may upgrade PFs to scourge / thunder hammer (one to missile launcher)

So CC weapons: Powerfist, Thunderhammer, Scourge
ranged weapons: TL HB, reaper, TL LC, Plasma Cannon....and, i'm guessing: Missile Launcher, Multimelta

Loks like the only difference bwteen the 'Brute and the Dread is the name....and the changes to Crazed.

Seems a little lackluster weapon options for a dread. No twin shooty weapon systems, no twin melee weapons (how mine is modeled). It just seems like its missing stuff when looking at all of the other loadouts that the marines get.

Well , reaper autocannon is twin-linked. But that's no consolation

I definitely like what I see so far from this new codex. I believe that my 1000sons, who have been doing extremely well in 6th edition, appear to be getting even better.
Not too excited about the fact that most of our HQs( besides princes and special characters, of course) have been reduced to 2 wounds, but we will just have to work around that.

 Praxiss wrote:

Minx wrote:
Someone on warseer who's got access to some parts of the codex offered the following regarding the helbrute's loadout:
warseer post

A few posts up you can see which units can get a mark (the helbrute cannot).

here;s what the post says in case anyoen can't read it:

power fist
TLHB
Reaper autocannon
plasma cannon
TLLC

fist may have heavy flamer / combibolter

may upgrade PFs to scourge / thunder hammer (one to missile launcher)



So CC weapons: Powerfist, Thunderhammer, Scourge
ranged weapons: TL HB, reaper, TL LC, Plasma Cannon....and, i'm guessing: Missile Launcher, Multimelta

Loks like the only difference bwteen the 'Brute and the Dread is the name....and the changes to Crazed.

Thanks!

 Praxiss wrote:

So CC weapons: Powerfist, Thunderhammer, Scourge
ranged weapons: TL HB, reaper, TL LC, Plasma Cannon....and, i'm guessing: Missile Launcher, Multimelta

Since the Dark Vengeance Starter Set Hellbrute has a multi-melta and power fist, I'd say that at least one of those is a good guess!

What keeps Forgefiends and Maulerfiends alive? I can see the possible regeneration of HP being helpful but with the huge amount of Str8 Armourbane and Str9/10 weapons I don't see them living much longer than your average Dread in 6th. Vehicles are struggling in our games so far and I see the new Fiends as huge targets. I don't think the Daemon rule will help them that much... and 10 Rear armor is going to really hurt them I think. Most armies can put Melta shots or their equivalent almost anywhere on the board. If they had a stat line like the Dreadknight instead of being vehicles I'd change my tune but they seem fragile to me, especially for the role they are supposed to play in your army.

 Jayden63 wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
here;s what the post says in case anyoen can't read it:

power fist
TLHB
Reaper autocannon
plasma cannon
TLLC

fist may have heavy flamer / combibolter

may upgrade PFs to scourge / thunder hammer (one to missile launcher)

So CC weapons: Powerfist, Thunderhammer, Scourge
ranged weapons: TL HB, reaper, TL LC, Plasma Cannon....and, i'm guessing: Missile Launcher, Multimelta

Loks like the only difference bwteen the 'Brute and the Dread is the name....and the changes to Crazed.

Seems a little lackluster weapon options for a dread. No twin shooty weapon systems, no twin melee weapons (how mine is modeled).

I think double PFs are allowed.

 Jayden63 wrote:
It just seems like its missing stuff when looking at all of the other loadouts that the marines get.

The other marines don't get to play with tentacles though.

 BladeWalker wrote:
What keeps Forgefiends and Maulerfiends alive? I can see the possible regeneration of HP being helpful but with the huge amount of Str8 Armourbane and Str9/10 weapons I don't see them living much longer than your average Dread in 6th. Vehicles are struggling in our games so far and I see the new Fiends as huge targets. I don't think the Daemon rule will help them that much... and 10 Rear armor is going to really hurt them I think. Most armies can put Melta shots or their equivalent almost anywhere on the board. If they had a stat line like the Dreadknight instead of being vehicles I'd change my tune but they seem fragile to me, especially for the role they are supposed to play in your army.

They also get the Daemon USR (5++ save), as well as being able to regenerate Hull Points.

The more i look at them, the more I like the Maulerfiend model. Dammit!

 Praxiss wrote:

 BladeWalker wrote:
What keeps Forgefiends and Maulerfiends alive? I can see the possible regeneration of HP being helpful but with the huge amount of Str8 Armourbane and Str9/10 weapons I don't see them living much longer than your average Dread in 6th. Vehicles are struggling in our games so far and I see the new Fiends as huge targets. I don't think the Daemon rule will help them that much... and 10 Rear armor is going to really hurt them I think. Most armies can put Melta shots or their equivalent almost anywhere on the board. If they had a stat line like the Dreadknight instead of being vehicles I'd change my tune but they seem fragile to me, especially for the role they are supposed to play in your army.

They also get the Daemon USR (5++ save), as well as being able to regenerate Hull Points.

The more i look at them, the more I like the Maulerfiend model. Dammit!

Yeah, got that part. But you fail one save and get hit by a AP1 weapon and you are going BOOM. You can't regenerate a crater.

Yeah, but that's true of any vehicle in 6th.

At least it's not too expensive. the Mauler in the WD report is costed at 135 with "Lasher tendrils"....whatever they do. it's a shame it doesn't get 2D6 vs armour, but then again it does have the magna things which are like cc melta knucklers.

 BladeWalker wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:

 BladeWalker wrote:
What keeps Forgefiends and Maulerfiends alive? I can see the possible regeneration of HP being helpful but with the huge amount of Str8 Armourbane and Str9/10 weapons I don't see them living much longer than your average Dread in 6th. Vehicles are struggling in our games so far and I see the new Fiends as huge targets. I don't think the Daemon rule will help them that much... and 10 Rear armor is going to really hurt them I think. Most armies can put Melta shots or their equivalent almost anywhere on the board. If they had a stat line like the Dreadknight instead of being vehicles I'd change my tune but they seem fragile to me, especially for the role they are supposed to play in your army.

They also get the Daemon USR (5++ save), as well as being able to regenerate Hull Points.

The more i look at them, the more I like the Maulerfiend model. Dammit!

Yeah, got that part. But you fail one save and get hit by a AP1 weapon and you are going BOOM. You can't regenerate a crater.

On the tabletop right now I'm not seeing a whole lot of str8+ weapons, and very few with armourbane, and fewer stuff with ap1 that's not a close combat weapon. I'm seeing lots of plasma though, and plasma isn't going to get there.

Also, if you do get hit by that str 10 ap 1 weapon and explode on your first turn, that's not a bad model, that's just bad luck. That could happen last edition too, and the edition before that. Didn't stop people from fielding vehicles then, won't stop them now.

Also, if you take a Warpsmith, you get that juicy extra 4+ to repair more stuff on your Maulerfiend. Your opponent will HAVE to down it in one turn or risk having it back to 3 HP at the start of your next turn.

Also dreads apparently can't take NORMAL auto cannons for some reason? Honestly I prefer the 48inch range to 36in and pinning

 mauzer wrote:
Also dreads apparently can't take NORMAL auto cannons for some reason? Honestly I prefer the 48inch range to 36in and pinning

Reaper Autocannons are normal autocannons. They are just twinlinked.
And Chaos Dreads never had "normal" autocannons. They always had the reaper version.
Well, since 3rd ed anyway.

drbored wrote:

On the tabletop right now I'm not seeing a whole lot of str8+ weapons, and very few with armourbane, and fewer stuff with ap1 that's not a close combat weapon. I'm seeing lots of plasma though, and plasma isn't going to get there.

Also, if you do get hit by that str 10 ap 1 weapon and explode on your first turn, that's not a bad model, that's just bad luck. That could happen last edition too, and the edition before that. Didn't stop people from fielding vehicles then, won't stop them now.

Also, if you take a Warpsmith, you get that juicy extra 4+ to repair more stuff on your Maulerfiend. Your opponent will HAVE to down it in one turn or risk having it back to 3 HP at the start of your next turn.

I see your point but how many footslogging Dreads or Defilers do you see? Without a delivery system or overloading the target priority of your opponent it just seems like a no brainer to blast the Fiends first, nothing else in the army is going to get there as fast as the Fiends either so you will need to spam them and bum rush into whatever guns there are. There may be a synergy with other parts of the book beyond the repair ability though.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 mauzer wrote:
Also dreads apparently can't take NORMAL auto cannons for some reason? Honestly I prefer the 48inch range to 36in and pinning

Reaper Autocannons are normal autocannons. They are just twinlinked.
And Chaos Dreads never had "normal" autocannons. They also had the reaper version.
Well, since 3rd ed anyway.

i'm pretty sure they just had normal Autocannons. reapers were on terminators and Defilers.

Also, the reaper is 36" range while the normal Autocannon is 48". The price you pay for being twin-linked.

 Praxiss wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 mauzer wrote:
Also dreads apparently can't take NORMAL auto cannons for some reason? Honestly I prefer the 48inch range to 36in and pinning

Reaper Autocannons are normal autocannons. They are just twinlinked.
And Chaos Dreads never had "normal" autocannons. They also had the reaper version.
Well, since 3rd ed anyway.

i'm pretty sure they just had normal Autocannons. reapers were on terminators and Defilers.

Also, the reaper is 36" range while the normal Autocannon is 48". The price you pay for being twin-linked.

Really? I thought chaos only had reapers.
Didn't know about the reduced range though. Just about shows how often I fight chaos. Heh.

ninja'd(edit)

Yea (personally I think dreads will be fine), however their use needs to be different than before. Everything in 6th needs to work together. I see dreads as a good support for assault troops to eat overwatch fire before they both charge a target, while also providing light fire support. Same for these fiends.

Since everything is so new, we still have no idea what the meta is going to be (at the beginning) and I have seen lots of positive results with vehicles. They just need to be used dfferently

I see a whole hell of a lot of Meltas and Lascannons.

Its going to change from shop to shop.

But generally every list will have a way with dealing with an armored vehicle. And i am pretty sure that the 5++ Daemon rule wont be helping very much. The Warpsmith might but i never seen a tech marine or equiv in action.

Tyrs13 wrote:
I see a whole hell of a lot of Meltas and Lascannons.

Its going to change from shop to shop.

But generally every list will have a way with dealing with an armored vehicle. And i am pretty sure that the 5++ Daemon rule wont be helping very much. The Warpsmith might but i never seen a tech marine or equiv in action.

You'd be surprised how useful a 5+ save could be...

I wouldn't rely on a 5++ or IWND for survivial. They're just "a chance" but not be be counted on in my opinion.

Sure, some shots I'll save, but most of them will get through.