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Im guessing its a Hellbrute upgrade or something because its description sounds like the old chaos dread flail-y arm thingies

 odorofdeath wrote:
1) Is Fabius Bile in the book, and is he any different?

I heard he is identical and the only change to enhanced warriors is that at the start of the game only upto one model can kill itself.

 Exergy wrote:

dreadnova wrote:
Actually it is stated that the Word Bearers alone are close to their pre heresy numbers and the Black Legion might even be greater in number than pre heresy. I would estimate the numbers of the traitors to be around 500,000 or more.

I was reading that Word Bearers pre heresy number was 200,000k alone. The Sons of Horus were the largest legion which would put their pre Heresy number at something greater.

The emperors children didnt have a large number but surely there are more than 500,000 traitors.

Reading the last Ultramarine book, the Sons of Ultramar were the largest chapter, with around 225,000 marines before the battle of Calth. Significantly fewer after that. It also made it sound like the Word Bearers had around 40,000 if I remember right. They were a very small legion. Now if I remember from the last ADB Night Lords novel, the Ultramarines broke down into like a 100 successor chapters, meaning they ended the Heresy over 100,000 marines. But we won't know til Black Library finishes the Heresy.....

Can anyone actually make out any of the stats? Those pictures are terrible.

Question!

I see Chainaxes are AP4, but the Khorne Berserker entry just says they have 'close combat weapons', does anyone know if you need to pay extra for Chainaxes?

Salacious Greed wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

dreadnova wrote:
Actually it is stated that the Word Bearers alone are close to their pre heresy numbers and the Black Legion might even be greater in number than pre heresy. I would estimate the numbers of the traitors to be around 500,000 or more.

I was reading that Word Bearers pre heresy number was 200,000k alone. The Sons of Horus were the largest legion which would put their pre Heresy number at something greater.

The emperors children didnt have a large number but surely there are more than 500,000 traitors.

Reading the last Ultramarine book, the Sons of Ultramar were the largest chapter, with around 225,000 marines before the battle of Calth. Significantly fewer after that. It also made it sound like the Word Bearers had around 40,000 if I remember right. They were a very small legion. Now if I remember from the last ADB Night Lords novel, the Ultramarines broke down into like a 100 successor chapters, meaning they ended the Heresy over 100,000 marines. But we won't know til Black Library finishes the Heresy.....

Dan Abnett says there were 150,000+ at the time of the heresy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWxl0TnkeYA&feature=youtu.be&t=8m33s

It is also written that at Monarchia, during the great crusade, that the entire WB legion was numbered over 100,000 and they were all forced to kneel en mass.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zakriv wrote:
Question!

I see Chainaxes are AP4, but the Khorne Berserker entry just says they have 'close combat weapons', does anyone know if you need to pay extra for Chainaxes?

2pts per model. not worth it

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Slave wrote:
I heard a disturbing and VERY disappointing rumor on Warseer...

Can anyone else confirm that noise marines are completely gutted by only allowing a blastmaster if the squad is 10 or greater?

This is a total slap in the face against 10+ years of playstyle,, and will indeed, be the end of 40K for me.

I have na illegl army from 5th, because I have several havoc squads with 4 Blastmasters, I have 20 terminators with sonic weapons.

All of which got no play for the entirety of that abortion we called a codex.

If this is two editions in a row where my army is illegal, I have 15K points in chaos marines going up on Ebay.

So you have 15,000pts of CSM and you can't make a single legal army?

I can, just not noise marines.

Salacious Greed wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

dreadnova wrote:
Actually it is stated that the Word Bearers alone are close to their pre heresy numbers and the Black Legion might even be greater in number than pre heresy. I would estimate the numbers of the traitors to be around 500,000 or more.

I was reading that Word Bearers pre heresy number was 200,000k alone. The Sons of Horus were the largest legion which would put their pre Heresy number at something greater.

The emperors children didnt have a large number but surely there are more than 500,000 traitors.

Reading the last Ultramarine book, the Sons of Ultramar were the largest chapter, with around 225,000 marines before the battle of Calth. Significantly fewer after that. It also made it sound like the Word Bearers had around 40,000 if I remember right. They were a very small legion. Now if I remember from the last ADB Night Lords novel, the Ultramarines broke down into like a 100 successor chapters, meaning they ended the Heresy over 100,000 marines. But we won't know til Black Library finishes the Heresy.....

The First Heretic said that the Word Bearers were the second largest legion. 40,000 doesn't seem accurate.

Ah, thanks Exergy.

I dunno, maybe on a few of them...My meta is pretty MEQ-lite though.

 Plokoone wrote:

Salacious Greed wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

dreadnova wrote:
Actually it is stated that the Word Bearers alone are close to their pre heresy numbers and the Black Legion might even be greater in number than pre heresy. I would estimate the numbers of the traitors to be around 500,000 or more.

I was reading that Word Bearers pre heresy number was 200,000k alone. The Sons of Horus were the largest legion which would put their pre Heresy number at something greater.

The emperors children didnt have a large number but surely there are more than 500,000 traitors.

Reading the last Ultramarine book, the Sons of Ultramar were the largest chapter, with around 225,000 marines before the battle of Calth. Significantly fewer after that. It also made it sound like the Word Bearers had around 40,000 if I remember right. They were a very small legion. Now if I remember from the last ADB Night Lords novel, the Ultramarines broke down into like a 100 successor chapters, meaning they ended the Heresy over 100,000 marines. But we won't know til Black Library finishes the Heresy.....

The First Heretic said that the Word Bearers were the second largest legion. 40,000 doesn't seem accurate.

The Sons of Horus were not the largest legion, the Ultramaries were with the Word Bearers second largest.

The Ultramarines numbered over or around 200,000 at the start of the heresy while the Word Bearers numbered around 100,000.

Slave wrote:
I heard a disturbing and VERY disappointing rumor on Warseer...

Can anyone else confirm that noise marines are completely gutted by only allowing a blastmaster if the squad is 10 or greater?

This is a total slap in the face against 10+ years of playstyle,, and will indeed, be the end of 40K for me.

I have na illegl army from 5th, because I have several havoc squads with 4 Blastmasters, I have 20 terminators with sonic weapons.

All of which got no play for the entirety of that abortion we called a codex.

If this is two editions in a row where my army is illegal, I have 15K points in chaos marines going up on Ebay.

In 3.5 you only got one blastmaster per noise marine squad... didn't matter if it was 5 or 20 guys. Yeah blastmaster havoks were the bomb - I ran one squad of them as well, but who knows what upgrades are allowed or not as the Havok entry hasn't been leaked as near as I can see. Noise marine terminators were fun, but again, we haven't seen the chosen/terminator entry so who knows how those upgrades work.

I think the reason so few people have commented on this is because we just don't know. I too have 2500 points of EC just waiting to see what configuration I'm going to have to come up with. All I know is what ever shows up, its got to be better than the last codex allowed us to do.

What I'm very curious about is if sacred numbers are going to mean anything this time around as well. Myself, I'm going to keep with 6s and 12s, just because that is how I've always done it. For some reason theme is more important to me in Chaos than it is in pretty much any other codex. Probably because theme (besides paint jobs) is one of the few things we can use to differentiate against all the cults and legions.

Graaah. I'm having such a hard time waiting for the Codex to come out. It's only Wednesday.. still a week and a half before we all know the truth.

I've been pouring over what we DO know and what sorts of things we know that we can do. Here's just a few tricks that I think MAY work, but may not...

3 Maulerfiends (135 points apiece) charging up with a Warpsmith in the middles. They have It Will Not Die, which gives them a 5+ repair, and the Warpsmith with Mechatendrils will give them another 4+ repair, should they start taking a lot of damage... The Maulerfiends will be able to start assaulting things turn 1 if they can move 12 inches and manage to get a 12 inch charge if someone deployed right on the 24" line. Being able to make 2 repair rolls is going to be potent.. and that's only going to take up a third of your army, leaving plenty of points leftover.

The Heldrake with Baleflamer at str 6 ap 3 torrent is going to be potent. Here's a question, can it vector strike things on the ground, or can it only vector strike things in the air? Vector strike an enemy flier, then proceed to flame up some marines. It denies cover, denies armor, and wounds marines on a 2+. That's a lot of wounds, and potentially a lot of points returned. Get lucky and you could wipe out that pesky squad of Longfangs or Havoks very early in the game.

Noise Marines got quite the boost with Ignores Cover. I wouldn't take too many squads of them, but I'd still take a Slaanesh Lord just so I could get them into the troop section. If they can take an Icon, that's a bunch of doods shooting 24" (plus the Blastmaster) and decimating most things that aren't marines. Against t3 models like Guardsmen, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tyranids, the Ignores Cover rule, and plenty of shots that wound on 3's at that point, will really start evening the playing field. Being an extra initiative and having FNP will make them pretty good at holding onto that objective. I think the sonic blasters also get some other rule too, that has something to do with charging.. or maybe that was one of the Slaanesh psychic powers...

Then 13 point bolter squads. Fantastic. Take cheap squads with bolters running around and shooting bolters. Yeah bolters aren't great, but a 3+ save is nothing to scoff at, and they're perfect for running up and trying to take an opponent's objective. I'd rather run them up the field with one or two special weapons rather than a super weak cultist squad or a very expensive Cult troop.

The more it trickles in, the happier I am. Those that are disappointed in the little things are typically not seeing the bigger picture. With marks on top of Icons on top of marine statlines, there's a lot to be happy about. Cheaper bikes and Khorne Berzerkers, expanded psychic powers... It'll be interesting to learn about the armory and what sorts of fun weapons we get, and it'll also be fun to learn about things like Spawn and the options that things like Land Raiders have.

But then, I shouldn't be surprised. It's a Phil Kelly book, and Phil Kelly writes great codices that allow you to build all sorts of different armies. Want a pre-heresy army before all the demons? You can do it, with little Chaos influence. Want an army with a bunch of expensive, hard-hitting units? Take Abbadon, Chosen, and some Terminators and Obliterators. Want tons of new beasties? Take a couple Warpsmiths, Heldrakes, and Forgefiends. Want an army that gets in your face fast? Warp Talons, Maulerfiends, Berzerkers in Land Raiders, and maybe even a Slaanesh Daemon Prince for the extra 3" run and fleet! Why not? It's Chaos!

 Jayden63 wrote:
All I know is what ever shows up, its got to be better than the last codex allowed us to do.

That's not saying much. Sometimes in the morning after my coffee I craft better than the last codex. Without using my hands.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Except all the background history we have for the Alpha Legion of today is that they're moustache twirling loons...much to Alpharius' dismay.

This. ALL Chaos Space Marines in M41 are moustache twirling loons who are functionally indistinguishable from Black Legion.

I can't wait for Ahriman to lead my Thousand Sons noise marine army into battle!

"3 Maulerfiends (135 points apiece) charging up with a Warpsmith in the middles. They have It Will Not Die, which gives them a 5+ repair, and the Warpsmith with Mechatendrils will give them another 4+ repair, should they start taking a lot of damage... The Maulerfiends will be able to start assaulting things turn 1 if they can move 12 inches and manage to get a 12 inch charge if someone deployed right on the 24" line. Being able to make 2 repair rolls is going to be potent.. and that's only going to take up a third of your army, leaving plenty of points leftover."

-drbored

I am very interested by the mauler fiends as well.

The only problem I see is that the Warpsmith will not be likely to keep up with one via movement (has to be in base contact to repair) and unless you are unleashing multiple MF's at one unit, the WS is going to have to choose 1 to stand with.

Despite that, I still think the combo will be potent.

I am more interested in general applications of MF's on the battlefield as they have slightly-tweaked Dreadnought stat-lines but gain the 12" move, Fleet, IWND and Daemonforge.

Given that we know their point cost of 135, my question is; How will you be using your Maulerfiends?

Will you spam all three Heavy slots? Mix-and-match with other Heavy units?

-NM

i dunno it's going to matter a lot whether they have IWND and a warpsmith or not. they've got AV12 and only 3 hullpoints. i'm betting on good odds of having them just focused fired down one at a time before they get to munch on anything. av13 they'd be pretty snarly. av12...eh.

 BladeWalker wrote:
5deadly is my new favorite poster!

Thanks Man. I hope to do more active things in the forums with models and tutorials and such… Got some info from Picster on Massive Voodoo for converting Plague Marines. Maybe if I can get my -Ish- together I might have some decent stuff.
this make me wanna Run Nurgle all MFn day Son!

 odorofdeath wrote:
I don't feel like going through the thread, so allow me to ask a few questions:

1) Is Fabius Bile in the book, and is he any different?
2) Does Ahriman still suck?
3) Do 1k Sons still suck?

I think all the Special Characters are close to being the same. Thousand Sons are probally the same walking bolter line from before… I know slow and purposeful doesn’t do much for Bolters so… depends on if they take other weapons… Never did like Ahriman… so…

 Plokoone wrote:
I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on the rumor of a plastic Chosen box set? Anyone know when Wave 2 will be released and what will be in it?

I hope they do but I doubt it I haven’t heard anything on wave 2… doing Chosen would be tough box to make… all the options and such.
----
I have a question… Does the Sacred Number do anything this time around?
I’m thinking of doing 4 Plague marine troops, some Plague Zombie cultist, a Havok unit or 2, a Dread or -ahem- A Hell Brute… After that not sure but running a Ton of those new Nurglings sounds good and from the break down if you thin the models you can make a few from one $20 box… something like 6-9 depending on how you split up the loose ones or if I have Nurgling all over my Plague marine Bases…

Still looking for a great source of Scythes…

I love Shooty anyway so using a ton of T5 troops and “shift lefts “ tactics should bring me many wins…

 odorofdeath wrote:
I don't feel like going through the thread, so allow me to ask a few questions:

1) Is Fabius Bile in the book, and is he any different?

2) Does Ahriman still suck?

3) Do 1k Sons still suck?

1) Yes and don't know.

2) Mastery Level 4 with a force weapon, not much suck there.

3) So far we're hearing that they're the same price and now S&P allows you to move 6' flat but disallows overwatch. Rubrics no longer end up going 1d6 if the sorcerer dies, as far as we can see it doesn't matter if the sorcerer dies. They're all fearless still and now have Hatred (space marines) for when they get charged.

THE LONGEST STRING OF PROFANITY JUST LEFT MY LIPS.

GW site... Plague marines, 1k sons, noise marines, and khorne bezerkers have all been moved to the elites tab.

The named badasses better make em troops choices or i am screwed on troops choices

What guns does Helldrake has? Hades autocannon is described as huge 6-barrel, like we see onForgefiend. Helldrake obviously doesnt has one, let alone 2. it has something in the mouth, but that seems like that's it?

 Quientin wrote:
THE LONGEST STRING OF PROFANITY JUST LEFT MY LIPS.

GW site... Plague marines, 1k sons, noise marines, and khorne bezerkers have all been moved to the elites tab.

The named badasses better make em troops choices or i am screwed on troops choices

Its not like we are saying for the last 30 pages every 2 or 3 pages that Lords and Sorceror unlocks the Cult Troops of the appropriate Mark as a Troop choice...,just like in 2nd Ed and 3Ed and 3.5Ed..., only 4thEd was the weird one.

 Quientin wrote:
THE LONGEST STRING OF PROFANITY JUST LEFT MY LIPS.

GW site... Plague marines, 1k sons, noise marines, and khorne bezerkers have all been moved to the elites tab.

The named badasses better make em troops choices or i am screwed on troops choices

A little bit of reading the thread before you post in it would go a long way. This topic has been mentioned about a hundred times and it's been confirmed about a hundred times that Lords with the proper mark unlock them as troops.

Apart from the zoid models, I like the look of the dex and models so far. Lost and the Damned was amazing but crazy confusing for new players and abusable.

Last codex was meh but I still played it as I loved chaos and HH so much.

This dex looks fun with different options. Plus, I have just finished painting two blood slaughteres to use as Maulerfiends - they look very roughly the same size.

I like the availability to use mono-god lists again. All fun.

The dragon is, IMO, an awesome model and i LOVE the dark apostle model.

I have about 10k of painted chaos at the moment and I am about half way through my Word Bearer army. Cultists are an amazing new unit fluffwise. Not too bothered how they are in game - they are part of what makes chaos for me.

Overall, there are some issues and it's not as 'chaos-y' as LatD but it seems like a great improvement on the last dex.

Plus, and this is a big plus, Noise Marines mean you can laugh prior to /facepalming harlie stars, rangers, stealth suits etc.

We shall see but I am excited

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Quientin wrote:
THE LONGEST STRING OF PROFANITY JUST LEFT MY LIPS.

GW site... Plague marines, 1k sons, noise marines, and khorne bezerkers have all been moved to the elites tab.

The named badasses better make em troops choices or i am screwed on troops choices

Its not like we are saying for the last 30 pages every 2 or 3 pages that Lords and Sorceror unlocks the Cult Troops of the appropriate Mark as a Troop choice...,just like in 2nd Ed and 3Ed and 3.5Ed..., only 4thEd was the weird one.

yeah but it just became true on the elites choice part and is still rumor on the lord/sorc part...

At least the new figs are sexy as hell.

 Ratliker wrote:
What guns does Helldrake has? Hades autocannon is described as huge 6-barrel, like we see onForgefiend. Helldrake obviously doesnt has one, let alone 2. it has something in the mouth, but that seems like that's it?

Its a hades. The Forge fiend just has an oversized one.

Has a hades autocannon and a Baleflamer or whatever its called.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 sharkticon wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I am more amazed by the fact that the dragon has an actual anus. I mean, really GW?

Slaneesh Dragon, eh?

No, a Slaanesh Dragon would be jelly dong duct taped to a flying stand. With the batteries still inside.

Well, you'd certainly know its meant to penetrate armor

Well played. Well. Played.

 Quientin wrote:
THE LONGEST STRING OF PROFANITY JUST LEFT MY LIPS.

GW site... Plague marines, 1k sons, noise marines, and khorne bezerkers have all been moved to the elites tab.

The named badasses better make em troops choices or i am screwed on troops choices

You haven't been reading this thread, have you.

 Plokoone wrote:
Hi all. I'm filing some Dark Vengeance Chosen and decided that I'm not going to be using the regular Chaos Tactical Marine models for my troops. Thinking about picking up some more DV Chosen and using them as troops instead. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on the rumor of a plastic Chosen box set? Anyone know when Wave 2 will be released and what will be in it?

I have done the same, whilst I don't know anything about wave 2 plastic chosen, I have been picking up the sets of chosen off people buying dark vengeance for mild amounts of cash, My GW sells the box set of 5 chaos marines for 15quid and I'm buying my 6 chosen for 10 so while it's slow it's a bit cheaper and the models rock.

I am struggling to paint all 60 of mine :S but I'll need to convert them up to change some of the poses add special weapons etc.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Hellbrute and Defiler options. I currently have 2 of each and i actually field them sometimes.

Interested in how much converting i will need to do with my Dreads to turn them into hellbrutes. A friend of mine got his DV 'brute and converted it so it is now packing a Decimetor butcher cannon - looks awesome.

I quite liked using my Defilers in the last edition (i prefer fluffy over competative) and if they now get the 5++ from Daemon (and IWND like the other daemon engines have) it could well be worth the price bump.

 Exergy wrote:

Zakriv wrote:
Question!

I see Chainaxes are AP4, but the Khorne Berserker entry just says they have 'close combat weapons', does anyone know if you need to pay extra for Chainaxes?

2pts per model. not worth it

I mostly play against guard or necrons, so i think they are totally worth it