Borderlands 2 - Discussion Thread

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**Aldarionn**

I'm playing Zero. Admittedly, I'm starting out with the Sniper tree, which is fine because I have an excellent sniper rifle, but it doesn't really get good until later on. Perhaps if I was playing one of the other trees it wouldn't be so annoying. To be fair though, I only have my action skill and 5 more points, so I find it hard to believe that would make much difference anywhere else.

Edit: On a more positive note, one thing I am pleased about is that they seem to have gotten rid of weapon skills. That was an annoying part of the first game that I am glad to see go. If I start out using Pistols and find an awesome Sniper Rifle, I don't have to go through a painful period of skilling up with the weapon before it's effective. Also, I don't have to pass on an excellent weapon that would normally be an upgrade just because it's not the type I have skill points in.

**Alfndrate**

Aldarionn wrote:
I'm playing Zero. Admittedly, I'm starting out with the Sniper tree, which is fine because I have an excellent sniper rifle, but it doesn't really get good until later on. Perhaps if I was playing one of the other trees it wouldn't be so annoying. To be fair though, I only have my action skill and 5 more points, so I find it hard to believe that would make much difference anywhere else.

I'm currently playing Zer0 as a cunning build... we're still a little bit under powered until you reach near endgame.

**Aldarionn**

I'm not even bothering to look up effective builds until I'm able to max the bottom skill in at least one tree. It won't really matter until then anyway. I'm going to guess a second playthrough will be a lot easier than the first.

**pretre**

You must be further than me, but my furthest character is Zero. I hide behind cover all the time to reload but yeah, you can't hide and fire at the same time. Tower shields are my bane. I have a fire shotgun I use if this comes up and I disappear wait until 0.01 and then unload in his back. Alternatively, you can throw a grenade to get them to expose themselves and then pop them with a sniper.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that I have died no less than 10 times on every "boss" fight so far, and I'm only level 10. Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong?

I think you might be doing something wrong. Most boss fights don't allow a lot of sniping, so you have to switch tactics. Although I do have a tendency to run away and snipe them sometimes.

Have you tried a different spec or class? Maybe Sniping Zero isn't for you right now.

**Kanluwen**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
And y'know what?

That's not even the most "emotional" moment of the game.

You'll know the part when your rage reaches maximum with Handsome Jack. And it won't be because he let Butt Stallion die.

When did that happen? I just beat the game, and I didn't see anything like that.

It was a joke. I didn't want to spoil anything big.

Spoiler:

Also, did anyone else find the exploit during the Warrior boss fight? It becomes so easy to beat him once you figure it out.

The Warrior is a joke fight anyways. It's just multiple small stages.

**Aldarionn**

To be honest, the spec barely matters at this point. As I said, I have my action skill and 5 points to play with. That means I took 5 points in the zoom/stability talent, and that's all. I hardly think those 5 points spent elsewhere would make much of a difference. I could have a giant bonus to melee damage, which is kinda suicidal at this level. I could have a minor bonus to melee damage and health, which would probably be the best option at level 10. I could have a melee damage bonus after getting hit, increased reload speed and weapon swap speed, or increased critical hit damage.

Would one of the other trees be more forgiving as I level up? Should I be using Shotguns/Melee at this level and leave the Snipers at home?

**pretre**

I would swap the zoom for the crit hit one. The zoom actually seems to be detrimental to my sniping.

I think at about level 15, I have one in the zoom one, 4 or 5 in the crit hit one, and 1 in each of the tier 2 ones.

Most bosses, I try to fall back to snipe. If I can't do that, I disappear and backshoot them with a shotgun, then run away and snipe or back shoot.

Zero is pretty good but his playstyle is tough. I'm going to try out the Commando guy for a while and see how different the game is.

**Avatar 720**

I'm finding it very hard to get into BL2. BL1 was easy to slip in to, but BL2 feels a lot... I dunno how to describe it really; it might just be that I've gotten sick to death of Bullymongs a lot faster than I got sick to death of Skags in BL1.

In any case, during two gaming sessions, I've now reached level 6, whereas in BL1 I'd be about 15-20 after a single session. BL2 just seems to bore me a lot quicker.

**pretre**

The beginning seems to be a bit slower in BL2 than one. The one thing that I found helps out is to just blaze through the required missions and get to sanctuary. Liar's just is annoying. lol

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, levelling seems a bit slower.

**Kanluwen**

Some of the trees just aren't usable until you can get the end tier talent.

Gunpowder and Survival immediately spring to mind for Axton. Guerilla is so far superior it is not funny.

From my understanding, Bloodshed is the "best" tree until you can make the others work for Zer0.

Oh, and a good way to deal with the Nomad Overlords(shield wielding goons) is to have Singularity/Homing grenades.
Singularity Grenades will suck them back and expose them to your gunfire each time the singularity detonates, as they "stagger" back and reveal themselves.

MIRVs and Sticky grenades tossed behind them work as well.

**Avatar 720**

I'm a sucker for side-quests though

I'm the guy who will completely clear an area of missions before carrying on the main storyline into a different area.

Liar's is beginning to really test that, though. If I see another Bullymong, I think I'll cry.

**Kanluwen**

Well, you won't see any Bullymongs for awhile outside of Hammerlock's mission from Sanctuary.

After that intro area, I don't remember seeing any till after Tundra Express--and that was only for a few seconds.

**Iur_tae_mont**

Yes. Unlike Skags, Bullymogs drop off the face of Pandora after like level 8.

**Aldarionn**

Kanluwen wrote:
Some of the trees just aren't usable until you can get the end tier talent.

Gunpowder and Survival immediately spring to mind for Axton. Guerilla is so far superior it is not funny.

From my understanding, Bloodshed is the "best" tree until you can make the others work for Zer0.

Oh, and a good way to deal with the Nomad Overlords(shield wielding goons) is to have Singularity/Homing grenades.
Singularity Grenades will suck them back and expose them to your gunfire each time the singularity detonates, as they "stagger" back and reveal themselves.

MIRVs and Sticky grenades tossed behind them work as well.

Yeah I think I'll be switching to Bloodshed the next time I play. The skills in that tree are all about massive damage and survivability which seems to complement the characters style of play well. Shotgun + Bloodshed is probably the way I will proceed from here on out, with a dip into Cunning to get Death Mark once I'm done with Bloodshed.

**Alfndrate**

I played Bloodshed for awhile and switched over just as I hit level 11 or 2 (just getting past where you are now, and I had so much issue with survivability

**CthuluIsSpy**

I actually like the difficulty. Provides more of a challenge.
Well, it would have if there was actually a game over screen.
Really, the whole "the fate of Pandora rests with you!" thing is kinda pointless since you keep coming back to life.

They should have made 2 campaigns; 1 for Co-op (Standard Borderlands), and 1 modified for single player use.
Or at least have iron man mode.

**Aldarionn**

Here's the build I'm considering:

Deception - 1
Bloodshed - 34
--Killing Blow - 5
--Iron Hand - 2
--Grim - 5
--Follow-through - 5
--Execute - 1
--Backstab - 5
--Resurgence - 5
--Like The Wind - 5
--Many Must Fall - 1
Cunning - 11
--Counter Strike - 5
--Ambush - 5
--Death Mark - 1

The idea is to max melee damage and stay in Decoy as long as possible, and use Death Marks against anyone that I can't 1 shot with a melee and finish them off with a Shotgun.

Thoughts?

**CthuluIsSpy**

Aldarionn wrote:
Here's the build I'm considering:

Deception - 1
Bloodshed - 34
--Killing Blow - 5
--Iron Hand - 2
--Grim - 5
--Follow-through - 5
--Execute - 1
--Backstab - 5
--Resurgence - 5
--Like The Wind - 5
--Many Must Fall - 1
Cunning - 11
--Counter Strike - 5
--Ambush - 5
--Death Mark - 1

The idea is to max melee damage and stay in Decoy as long as possible, and use Death Marks against anyone that I can't 1 shot with a melee and finish them off with a Shotgun.

Thoughts?

Is this for true vault hunter mode, or standard? Because I just blazed through standard mode with only the sniper skill tree.

**Aldarionn**

I guess i don't know the difference.......

**Kanluwen**

True Vault Hunter mode basically has rank and file enemies being equivalent to Badass, Badass equivalent to Super Badass, etc etc.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Aldarionn wrote:
I guess i don't know the difference.......

Standard mode (Or Normal, as its called in game) is the default mode. All new characters start in this mode.

True Vault Hunter Mode is unlocked after you complete the campaign. Its basically New Game +. I think they had something like that in Borderlands 1.

Ninja'd by Kanluwen.
And feth Armored Maniacs >.<

**Aldarionn**

Right, so higher difficulty. I didn't change anything when I started so I assume I'm on standard.

Edit: You mean second play through. No, I'm not on a second play through. I'm on normal mode.

**Locclo**

Aldarionn wrote:
This game is beginning to irritate me. It's clearly designed to be multiplayer, to the point where the single player is annoyingly difficult.

-Cover is useless. Perhaps I'm spoiled by the cover mechanics in Mass Effect, but there is no way to use cover effectively. You can't fire from behind cover without completely exposing yourself, and if you do take cover, most times the mobs you are fighting rush your position. This was no better in the first game but the AI was not as vicious about it.

-Friendly fire from grenades is realistic, but stupid considering the bounce mechanics. I can't count how many times I've tossed a grenade only to have a charging psycho bounce it off his head back toward me. Add to that the sheer number of suicide psychos I've run into in tight spaces where it's nearly impossible to avoid them and throwing grenades just adds to the number of ways you can be killed by explosives.

-BARRELS! BARRELS FREAKING EVERYWHERE! There were not nearly this many barrels in the first game. It seems like when the designers said there would be 87 bajillion guns, they meant 87 bajillion explosive/fire/corrosive/shock/slag barrels for those guns to destroy accidentally while you are standing right next to them. I literally ran out of SMG ammo just shooting barrels on one mission, simply so I could not be killed by them later.

-Enemy bosses with impenetrable tower shields, guns that light you on fire and the ability to throw grenades that 1 shot you from any distance and heal them are an example of how the designers didn't take solo play into account when balancing encounters. I shouldn't be REQUIRED to lure the boss outside his lair and 3 shot him point blank with a shotgun in order to avoid him killing me almost instantaneously in return.

Don't get me wrong. I find the story and the dialogue amusing, and for the most part I am enjoying the game, but I'm disappointed by the fact that you are punished for wanting to play through the campaign by yourself without having to coordinate play time with other people. If the first game had been this annoyingly difficult I likely would not have finished it. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I have died no less than 10 times on every "boss" fight so far, and I'm only level 10. Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong?

I would say your first problem is that Borderlands 2 is not a cover-based shooter. Who are you playing as? Because honestly, I'm not having any issues playing solo (though Zer0 is ridiculously hard to play solo until later levels). Use your shields to absorb shots while you blast enemies - cover should only ever be used to block enemy fire while you're recharging shields or reloading. Try to take out enemies one at a time or, if you're using Maya, light 'em on fire with an elemental weapon and move on to the next one.

I think you're also using grenades wrong. Unless you've got a decent one, they aren't going to be much use against anything that moves (and everything does). Don't toss one at a charging psycho, you will never succeed in doing anything but hurt yourself. Toss one when you see a group of enemies clumped up. You probably won't see any of them yet, but singularity grenades are just the best mods in this game, since they yank enemies towards the grenade before exploding.

I definitely hear you about the bosses, though. Most of them are terribly hard to solo, if only because they tend to one-shot you with whatever they have. Again, though, it depends on who you're playing as - because Maya finds them stupidly easy, since she can just pop one into Phaselock and empty a clip into him.

Hope I helped. I've played through the game once, and I'm halfway through playthrough 2 now in solo. Never had any significantly hard times, except for right at the beginning when all your gear is gak and you have no action skills.

**Necros**

I haven't really had any problems with Zero. I started with the Cunning skills but just switched to sniper now. I'm level 24 though. But, around level 12 I got a purple exploding assault rifle that tore up pretty much everything I went up against. At 20, same thing when I got an orange corrosive pistol. I like to snipe though, so I usually just creep along slowly. I never really use stealth to attack, I save it for if my shields drop and I'm in trouble. I stealth and run away. by the time it wears off, my shields are recharging and I'm ready to jump back in.

also I've been going out of my way to do every quest I can find, now a lot of them are trivial difficulty now and I can usually breeze through them. So I think my level is a bit ahead of the curve now for where I'm at.

**Aldarionn**

Locclo wrote:

I think you're also using grenades wrong. Unless you've got a decent one, they aren't going to be much use against anything that moves (and everything does). Don't toss one at a charging psycho, you will never succeed in doing anything but hurt yourself. Toss one when you see a group of enemies clumped up. You probably won't see any of them yet, but singularity grenades are just the best mods in this game, since they yank enemies towards the grenade before exploding.

It's more a habit I'm trying to break than anything. In a number of the games I have played (including the first Borderlands IIRC) there is no friendly fire from grenades, so I'm used to tossing a grenade at my feet in a panic moment to cover me while I retreat. This ends up getting me killed a lot because I simply forget that I can't do that in this game. I do tend to throw grenades at clumped enemies but as you observed, it just serves to scatter them rather than deal actual damage. I have run across precious few grenade mods in this game so far and all of them have been fire mods. In fact, everything I've run across so far has been fire damage or explosive damage.

Locclo wrote:
I definitely hear you about the bosses, though. Most of them are terribly hard to solo, if only because they tend to one-shot you with whatever they have. Again, though, it depends on who you're playing as - because Maya finds them stupidly easy, since she can just pop one into Phaselock and empty a clip into him.

Zero seems to have survivability problems at this level and I don't think they will get much better until I can start regenerating health when killing targets. It seems to me that's when I stopped having trouble in the first game, but I was playing a Siren in the first game so I had an awesome get-out-of-danger-free-card with Phasewalk. Decoy is similar but it doesn't do anything to prevent damage. It just drops aggro, so I need to get used to that.

Locclo wrote:
Hope I helped. I've played through the game once, and I'm halfway through playthrough 2 now in solo. Never had any significantly hard times, except for right at the beginning when all your gear is gak and you have no action skills.

Perhaps I just need to get a few more levels and some better gear. One thing I am noticing that seems like a trend is class mods that grant larger bonuses at the expense of reduced shield capacity, and shields that have higher capacity at the expense of lower max health. The tradeoff of stats in this game seems like its own challenge, and I just haven't played enough to anticipate how it will affect me later on.

**Iur_tae_mont**

So right now I'm in a sort of SMG Hell.

The best SMG I have come across is the Bane.

**Aldarionn**

I have a pretty solid Maliwan SMG with fire damage on it right now. It's my go-to weapon for mid-range combat. I'm also sporting the shotgun from the assassin you have to kill with a shotgun in that one quest I can't remember the name of. The Fire Fire Dog? It does a disgusting amount of damage but it's inaccurate as all hell. When I switch to Bloodshed I think it will become my primary weapon.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Iur_tae_mont wrote:
So right now I'm in a sort of SMG Hell.

The best SMG I have come across is the Bane.

Ouch dude. Have you tried tipping Moxxi?

**Iur_tae_mont**

Well I'm not too terribly worried about it, since the SMG is my "everything else is out of ammo" weapon(which is rare with all the ammo storage upgrades I have), but the one or two times every 5 levels or so that it happens.....

**Aldarionn**

SMG's are my favorite weapon from the first game (Again, I played a Siren) and I'm glad to see they are about as useful in this game as they were then. One of my favorite builds was a Phoenix Siren with a high level Hellfire.

My current Zero works much the same, but I suspect that will change when I switch builds and get a few more levels.