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catachan1brainleaf wrote:
Throw them in a baggy with the project code on it and put that in the plastic bins along with the assembled models .If your just giving the people the bits back then there is no need to sort them .merely tag them and keep them with the figs simple .

In the scenario I presented, that wouldn't even happen. The following is an example of how I think the system would work what with their bits piles and such.

Imagined Scenario:

A customer buys or otherwise sends in complete kits which are never associated with that customer's order.

New packages in today? Alright, what do we have here? Tactical Marines, Command Squad, Trygons, etc.

Check invoices, toss them in corresponding piles.

Then they go through a list of orders, much the same way a short order cook would, and just take what's needed from their stock to fulfill that order.

In a situation like the one mentioned above, nothing would get tagged as being sent in by 'Jeremy from Seattle' and so any extra bits aren't identified as belonging to that particular customer and get added to growing reserves of leftovers. Or outright trashed as Renfro wrote - an unpleasant notion at the very least. That's the only way I can see - other than greed - for not returning extra bits.

Dentry wrote:

catachan1brainleaf wrote:
Throw them in a baggy with the project code on it and put that in the plastic bins along with the assembled models .If your just giving the people the bits back then there is no need to sort them .merely tag them and keep them with the figs simple .

In the scenario I presented, that wouldn't even happen. The following is an example of how I think the system would work what with their bits piles and such.

Imagined Scenario:

A customer buys or otherwise sends in complete kits which are never associated with that customer's order.

New packages in today? Alright, what do we have here? Tactical Marines, Command Squad, Trygons, etc.

Check invoices, toss them in corresponding piles.

Then they go through a list of orders, much the same way a short order cook would, and just take what's needed from their stock to fulfill that order.

In a situation like the one mentioned above, nothing would get tagged as being sent in by 'Jeremy from Seattle' and so any extra bits aren't identified as belonging to that particular customer and get added to growing reserves of leftovers. Or outright trashed as Renfro wrote - an unpleasant notion at the very least. That's the only way I can see - other than greed - for not returning extra bits.

I think they just don't care to be bothered keeping track of left over bits more then anything. One less hassle if you will.

The thought process is probably more or less that if you are coming to them to have a army assembled and painted, you must not care much for modleing/painting in the 1st place. Their for their is no point sending the bits foreword, since a customer with such a mind set "does not need the bits". If they want to add a new unit/options to their army/squad they obviously will just come back to studio instead of doing it them selves.

=U

i agree the people who order armies esp from BTP aren't that into the hobby side of things clearly . as for keeping track of the bits iv already explained how easy that is .say i need to build x army ,i get all the boxes i need for that army including any other boxes used just for conversions .as each box is built you throw the left overs in a bag with the same number on it as the plastic containers .that way you know bag 359-5 goes with box 359-5 you don't need to know their name to do that only the person handling the orders .all work sheets ie what needs done to the army bits and actual built figs can all be kept track of easily its not a big deal .

**Important: In order to spread the word, I started a thread on MiniWarGaming forum. Please go there and contribute:

MiniWarGaming Thread on BTW

id say if you gave some of the commission painters on here, youtube and a host of others places, the chance to go thru their trade stock and bits for the same prices BTP are paying they would come up with loads of cool starter armies .which is what BTP should be doing .they may also want to talk to the sites dealing in bits to re-cope some of the cost how much will you give me for 2kg of space marine bits whatever lol

catachan1brainleaf wrote:
i agree the people who order armies esp from BTP aren't that into the hobby side of things clearly . as for keeping track of the bits iv already explained how easy that is .say i need to build x army ,i get all the boxes i need for that army including any other boxes used just for conversions .as each box is built you throw the left overs in a bag with the same number on it as the plastic containers .that way you know bag 359-5 goes with box 359-5 you don't need to know their name to do that only the person handling the orders .all work sheets ie what needs done to the army bits and actual built figs can all be kept track of easily its not a big deal .

I agree. It's not hard at all, just keep everything together. My post was simply a situation that could perhaps explain why they don't.

Also, it could be that someone doesn't care for the hobby or doesn't have the time, but those bits are still worth money. It costs BTP nothing to send them back with the finished project.

Now I'm not a spokesmen for the company. So dont take my word as law.

While working in the assembly department of BTP, when a customer requests all the bits returned, they get returned, I clip them and bag them, keeping them with the project. But that is a rare thing to see.

So if you go with BTP, and want to keep all your bits, then make sure that is part of the form you fill out for final instructions on the project.

Other wise we build the models based off the army list you (hopefully) sent in. All spare parts go to the bits wall. Where they get used on other projects. On a project I finished today, the client wanted 4 special guns per 10 man unit. That doesn't come in the box set in those numbers. So I had to spend time searching the various bins for the parts. The client was not charged extra for these parts. Even though they go for $7 a piece on battlewagon bits. Especially rare or limited parts, yes we charge for, but if they are on the bits wall, its fair game for the assemblers to use. This is done with out adding cost to the clients project.

Kit incomplete? Bits wall. Client didn't send in all the correct parts? Bits wall. Stuff we can use in a conversion? Bits wall. Not included in the box? Bits wall.

Dentry wrote:

catachan1brainleaf wrote:
i agree the people who order armies esp from BTP aren't that into the hobby side of things clearly . as for keeping track of the bits iv already explained how easy that is .say i need to build x army ,i get all the boxes i need for that army including any other boxes used just for conversions .as each box is built you throw the left overs in a bag with the same number on it as the plastic containers .that way you know bag 359-5 goes with box 359-5 you don't need to know their name to do that only the person handling the orders .all work sheets ie what needs done to the army bits and actual built figs can all be kept track of easily its not a big deal .

I agree. It's not hard at all, just keep everything together. My post was simply a situation that could perhaps explain why they don't.

Also, it could be that someone doesn't care for the hobby or doesn't have the time, but those bits are still worth money. It costs BTP nothing to send them back with the finished project.

Damn and there's me trying to use common sense for once lol gately where`s this slick well oiled machine you talk of .

 Igenstilch wrote:
Now I'm not a spokesmen for the company. So dont take my word as law.

While working in the assembly department of BTP, when a customer requests all the bits returned, they get returned, I clip them and bag them, keeping them with the project. But that is a rare thing to see.

So if you go with BTP, and want to keep all your bits, then make sure that is part of the form you fill out for final instructions on the project.

Other wise we build the models based off the army list you (hopefully) sent in. All spare parts go to the bits wall. Where they get used on other projects. On a project I finished today, the client wanted 4 special guns per 10 man unit. That doesn't come in the box set in those numbers. So I had to spend time searching the various bins for the parts. The client was not charged extra for these parts. Even though they go for $7 a piece on battlewagon bits. Especially rare or limited parts, yes we charge for, but if they are on the bits wall, its fair game for the assemblers to use. This is done with out adding cost to the clients project.

Kit incomplete? Bits wall. Client didn't send in all the correct parts? Bits wall. Stuff we can use in a conversion? Bits wall. Not included in the box? Bits wall.

On BTP's website, they ask for a $50-$150 pool to be included to handle conversion costs. I've never used their service, but from what I've seen, asking for extra money to buy things from BTP that BTP didn't originally pay for seems to fit their business model. Their entire Kickstarter is asking people to buy them $40,000 worth of armies, so that they can then paint those armies and resell them.

Now.. I don't see what they're offering that's any different than other painting services. You pay them $ and you get painted models. Except their KS model seems to be, you give them $, then you give them more $ for painted models. So, essentially they're getting $40,000 of free revenue to do the same services they already provide. It certainly doesn't fit into the spirit of what Kickstarter is supposed to be.

 Iron Dragon wrote:

 Igenstilch wrote:
Now I'm not a spokesmen for the company. So dont take my word as law.

While working in the assembly department of BTP, when a customer requests all the bits returned, they get returned, I clip them and bag them, keeping them with the project. But that is a rare thing to see.

So if you go with BTP, and want to keep all your bits, then make sure that is part of the form you fill out for final instructions on the project.

Other wise we build the models based off the army list you (hopefully) sent in. All spare parts go to the bits wall. Where they get used on other projects. On a project I finished today, the client wanted 4 special guns per 10 man unit. That doesn't come in the box set in those numbers. So I had to spend time searching the various bins for the parts. The client was not charged extra for these parts. Even though they go for $7 a piece on battlewagon bits. Especially rare or limited parts, yes we charge for, but if they are on the bits wall, its fair game for the assemblers to use. This is done with out adding cost to the clients project.

Kit incomplete? Bits wall. Client didn't send in all the correct parts? Bits wall. Stuff we can use in a conversion? Bits wall. Not included in the box? Bits wall.

On BTP's website, they ask for a $50-$150 pool to be included to handle conversion costs. I've never used their service, but from what I've seen, asking for extra money to buy things from BTP that BTP didn't originally pay for seems to fit their business model. Their entire Kickstarter is asking people to buy them $40,000 worth of armies, so that they can then paint those armies and resell them.

Now.. I don't see what they're offering that's any different than other painting services. You pay them $ and you get painted models. Except their KS model seems to be, you give them $, then you give them more $ for painted models. So, essentially they're getting $40,000 of free revenue to do the same services they already provide. It certainly doesn't fit into the spirit of what Kickstarter is supposed to be.

Thanks for the info, Igenstilch. Can I call you Igen?

But is that only for projects that have Conversion Budgets? To be fair, that Conversion Budget is optional from my understanding and it says that "minor parts" aren't charged for.

 Iron Dragon wrote:

 Igenstilch wrote:
Now I'm not a spokesmen for the company. So dont take my word as law.

While working in the assembly department of BTP, when a customer requests all the bits returned, they get returned, I clip them and bag them, keeping them with the project. But that is a rare thing to see.

So if you go with BTP, and want to keep all your bits, then make sure that is part of the form you fill out for final instructions on the project.

Other wise we build the models based off the army list you (hopefully) sent in. All spare parts go to the bits wall. Where they get used on other projects. On a project I finished today, the client wanted 4 special guns per 10 man unit. That doesn't come in the box set in those numbers. So I had to spend time searching the various bins for the parts. The client was not charged extra for these parts. Even though they go for $7 a piece on battlewagon bits. Especially rare or limited parts, yes we charge for, but if they are on the bits wall, its fair game for the assemblers to use. This is done with out adding cost to the clients project.

Kit incomplete? Bits wall. Client didn't send in all the correct parts? Bits wall. Stuff we can use in a conversion? Bits wall. Not included in the box? Bits wall.

On BTP's website, they ask for a $50-$150 pool to be included to handle conversion costs. I've never used their service, but from what I've seen, asking for extra money to buy things from BTP that BTP didn't originally pay for seems to fit their business model. Their entire Kickstarter is asking people to buy them $40,000 worth of armies, so that they can then paint those armies and resell them.

Now.. I don't see what they're offering that's any different than other painting services. You pay them $ and you get painted models. Except their KS model seems to be, you give them $, then you give them more $ for painted models. So, essentially they're getting $40,000 of free revenue to do the same services they already provide. It certainly doesn't fit into the spirit of what Kickstarter is supposed to be.

I'm not a fan of the kickstarter, I don't like the idea of mass producing the same thing. Built to order armies have more personality to them.

As for conversion costs. Its recommended, majority of projects coming across my desk don't have it. Meaning every thing gets assembled as is out of box. Do you want something more then simple basing on your models? Some different poses? Every guards men to have goggles? Banners? Bayonets? It takes time to find parts not included, and make things from scratch. Its recommended, but not required. That budget also goes into repairs and clean up on client sent in models. Just the other day a client sent in a box of miniatures he assembled, with sculpey and hot glue... That takes a lot of time to clean up decently. If we don't have a conversion budget, then we just have to paint over it, after loosing detail to it.

From the web site
"We recommend setting a budget for conversion work. This will allow us to get creative without asking for approval each time. Typically, clients will set a $50-$150 budget for conversions for a whole army. The price you set is a maximum, we might not use all that. This covers the cost of the parts used and conversion work itself. We do not always charge for minor parts, like plastic shields, only unusual and/or metal parts."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dentry wrote:

Thanks for the info, Igenstilch. Can I call you Igen?

But is that only for projects that have Conversion Budgets? To be fair, that Conversion Budget is optional from my understanding and it says that "minor parts" aren't charged for.

Igen works for me. =) I go by that on BoLS.

Minor parts are not charged for. Conversion budget gives us time to spice up the army, give it some personality, preferably with a theme or idea at the clients request. A Chaos Marine army that had a good sized conversion budget allowed the assembler to have time to really customize the army. The daemon prince is especially nice (completely scratch built). It should get posted in the next few days on out gallery. http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=5307 EDIT: Theres the army, http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=6132

The idea behind the kickstarter, is that we can offer painted armies of the same quality even cheaper. Custom level 3 armies will stay the same cost. While armies that we have been able to stream line the production of, will drop in cost, and will be readily available for purchase with out the production wait time.

Why dont you just build them from trade stock and bits ? unless you are already doing that to for fill orders .plus a lot of the in house armies haven't exactly lept off the shelf .what makes you think building 100`s of them that will more than likely look even more rushed are going to sell .if gately wants $40.00 he should go to the bank like any normal person would not exploit BTP`s dwindling fan base with this kickstarter.

~shrug~
Not my call to make.

Igenstilch,

Why is there very little decent photography on BTP? The miniature gallery photo's are too small and often out of focus... I am yet to find a photo of a BTP miniature that makes me go wow because most detail is lost in the way the picture is taken and presented. I think people would have a better feeling for the quality of the painting if the photo's weren't so badly done and the gallery setup is self makes them hard to navigate. You would be better off whacking each project on flickr at this rate.

Guess I will see for my self soon enough when my mates project arrives, if it ever arrives at this rate.

I'm pretty sure between the painters and assemblers you could come up with some cool lower pts themed armies .if BTP is buying the stuff in for 20-30% of RRP and you have a mountain of bits it just makes sense to me that BTP would use that to get more studio themed armies out .ok some of the stuff that comes in will be to naff to use in an army so make objectives and bits of terrain out of it .buy an eldar army then when not get a few eldar themed objectives and a bit of terrain made uo at the same time from scrap bits .ignoring all the other stuff that's been bandied about i really cant see the point or need for a kickstarter apart from BTP wants $40.000 interest free from its fans .if the company is in the black doing well has a great turn over and we ignore all that's been said here and over at TGN i just dont get why BTP needs $40.000.i think its more about generating trade with the pledges and getting interest free cash .

modify wrote:
Igenstilch,

Why is there very little decent photography on BTP? The miniature gallery photo's are too small and often out of focus... I am yet to find a photo of a BTP miniature that makes me go wow because most detail is lost in the way the picture is taken and presented. I think people would have a better feeling for the quality of the painting if the photo's weren't so badly done and the gallery setup is self makes them hard to navigate. You would be better off whacking each project on flickr at this rate.

Guess I will see for my self soon enough when my mates project arrives, if it ever arrives at this rate.

I made a similar comment to the upper staff shortly after starting there, I agree the pictures should be better. I know we are looking into budgeting for a better website. Hopefully get a better set up for taking pictures.

Our youtube videos that focus on projects do a decent job of showing quality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-M1x1bB02U&list=UU-aSLyvFLGEmNFcGomzL47w&index=23&feature=plcp


Automatically Appended Next Post:

catachan1brainleaf wrote:
I'm pretty sure between the painters and assemblers you could come up with some cool lower pts themed armies .if BTP is buying the stuff in for 20-30% of RRP and you have a mountain of bits it just makes sense to me that BTP would use that to get more studio themed armies out .ok some of the stuff that comes in will be to naff to use in an army so make objectives and bits of terrain out of it .buy an eldar army then when not get a few eldar themed objectives and a bit of terrain made uo at the same time from scrap bits .ignoring all the other stuff that's been bandied about i really cant see the point or need for a kickstarter apart from BTP wants $40.000 interest free from its fans .if the company is in the black doing well has a great turn over and we ignore all that's been said here and over at TGN i just dont get why BTP needs $40.000.i think its more about generating trade with the pledges and getting interest free cash .

~shrug~ I assume (perhaps inaccurately) that a significant portion of that money will go to fulfilling all the rewards.

Several companies have used kickstarter to fund their production lines. If you disagree with the idea, dont pledge any funds.

Also, the staff are working on some themed armies. Rat Ogre Kingdoms army is in the works. Dont know how big these actual projects will get though. The Eldar objective markers is a good idea, its just not requested that often. People have in the past requested spare bits be made in markers or flags.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Guys I work in assembly, I'm not involved in the business portion of BTP. So there are a lot of questions I can only guess an answer to. >_<

"~shrug~ I assume (perhaps inaccurately) that a significant portion of that money will go to fulfilling all the rewards. " so its mostly about generating trade via the pledges ?

meant sell the objectives with the army for an extra few $,i think a lot people would go for army themed objectives plus they just look nicer on the table.like i say things like that give the crappy end of the trade stock a new lease on life instead of being chucked in the bin . tell me the ogre army was made from stock and bits ? if not you need to have a look at whats knocking about in there and come up with ideas for how it can be used .i know plenty of gamers who wish they had a load of old crap tanks and stuff knocking about to make terrain out of .

I believe its being made from stock bits. Its a side project at the moment, so its not moving along quickly. But we ordered several Island of Blood warhammer fantasy box sets when they first came out, so those skaven are being dug through. We posted about the army idea about a month back on our youtube page. I can ask around and see how its coming along.

I think things like that may be the way forward man if you have the trade stock and bits to back it up .plus the staff get to make up the theme and i think you said yourself its more fun working on a project with a bit of a theme and conversion work .it doesn't need to be all ott more kit bashing what you already have . not every body has the money or wants to risk the money on uber armies.a half built tank with bits missing may have pretty much zero value in trade but then you also aren't paying anything for it really .im sure people chuck extra crap in just to get shot of it from time to time .so make cheap terrain why well because you can .i seen the eldar terrain and loads of times it was hey we just blow x $ on y tank and im sitting here thinking my arse you did ,thats prob some poor tank that was half built and badly at that you got for next to nothing .

I like how this thread consist of mostly repeated posters on a crusade against BTP. Occupy DAKKA DAKKA ST laawlzzz.

ianj253 wrote:
I like how this thread consist of mostly repeated posters on a crusade against BTP. Occupy DAKKA DAKKA ST laawlzzz.

This certainly has some truth to it.

What is worse is that the anti-BTP activists seem bound to smear them wherever they can. They seek out MiniWargaming, Mantic, Crystal Brush, etc.. everyone who has ever said anything positive about BTP and try to smear them there (they also found my lowly blog post about BTP only to post a long list of links that show what a deamonic entity BTP really is... guess I should feel honoured).

There're a lot of legitimate criticisms one can bring against BTP, but a smear campaign and witch hunt of this proportion is - if anything - even more repulsive.

 Zweischneid wrote:

ianj253 wrote:
I like how this thread consist of mostly repeated posters on a crusade against BTP. Occupy DAKKA DAKKA ST laawlzzz.

This certainly has some truth to it.

What is worse is that the anti-BTP activists seem bound to smear them wherever they can. They seek out MiniWargaming, Mantic, Crystal Brush, etc.. everyone who has ever said anything positive about BTP and try to smear them there (they also found my lowly blog post about BTP only to post a long list of links that show what a deamonic entity BTP really is... guess I should feel honoured).

There're a lot of legitimate criticisms one can bring against BTP, but a smear campaign and witch hunt of this proportion is - if anything - even more repulsive.

I couldn't agree more. There are some legitimate criticisms that have been brought up, but I don't understand this smear campaign at all. To me it seems like the posters here would only be satisfied if BTP goes down in flames and I'd hate to see that.

If there is a lot of legitimate criticisms brought against BTP why aren't other people allowed to know about it esp when they are asking for $40.000 ? willingly defrauding the IRS, poor worker employee relations and braking of labor laws ,lack of transparency about BTP`s financial status and work practice. it isn't a smear campaign if what your saying is true plus don't you think people have a right to know about things like this before parting with hard cash ?

so im worse than a man who engages in all of the above ? I`m also not posting on other forums trying to blacken BTP`s name .ok it seems giving a crap about the state of wargaming is a crime these days .have fun being self righteous and ignorant i don't care anymore .

catachan1brainleaf wrote:
If there is a lot of legitimate criticisms brought against BTP why aren't other people allowed to know about it esp when they are asking for $40.000 ? willingly defrauding the IRS, poor worker employee relations and braking of labor laws ,lack of transparency about BTP`s financial status and work practice. it isn't a smear campaign if what your saying is true plus don't you think people have a right to know about things like this before parting with hard cash ?

so im worse than a man who engages in all of the above ? I`m also not posting on other forums trying to blacken BTP`s name .ok it seems giving a crap about the state of wargaming is a crime these days .have fun being self righteous and ignorant i don't care anymore .

Posting some information is fine.

Fake accounts like catachan1brainleaf or bowoflostcells, with 90% of their entire posting history dedicating to throwing mud at this Blue Table Painting discussion and literally occupying every other post here to stifle any kind of discussion of the information posted in its infancy, certainly does smell of a smear campaign.

If you're allowed to voice legitimate criticism (with altogether to much fanatical zeal), I am allowed to voice legitimate criticism of the rather shady nature of those voicing the criticism, who seem very eager to shout it into everyones face under the guise of anonymous fake-accounts created only for that purpose.

Easy tiger this is not a fake account its an old one i made last year and havent really used .i dont play 40k i play whfb but dont hang out on any of the related forum bar bugmans i dont play either hordes or warmachine don't play flames of war .i mean i could list all the major topics on here of which none interest me .i do play lots of wargames just not the top 7 or 8 which also seem to be the only ones most people know about .so why when there is forums dedicated to the games i do play would i post on here ? i only came over here after TGN shut the thread down and because i was told people here were already talking about this whole thing which they were.don't give me this oh oh he`s got a fake account crap .

now whos out on a smear campaign ? get your facts right before you start slinging dirt .

Alright. You've got a point.

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt (or innocent until proven guilty), just as I'll give it to BTP.

So . . . while the basecoat on my terminator squad is drying, I figured I would check the forum.

Although I was not specifically mentioned as one of the people smearing BTP, I just wanted to chime in for a moment.

I have avoided forums in the past - TMP, DAKKA DAKKA, TMP, and so on - for this very reason. Too often things get out of hand.

Anyway, I did register here only to get in on the BTP discussion after the TMP forum was locked. I explained this in my first post.

I think that it is important to hear from both sides of an issue (and the fringes as well).

I think that folks are clever enough to read and heed posted comments that are useful and disregard the rest.

It is also important to stick to the facts and what you know first hand in a discussion like this one.

If nothing else, I think it was very useful to hear from past and current employees on both sides of the fence.

Watch my video here http://youtu.be/z77AqRvp0YM for 2 minutes starting at about 19:45 to hear about my experience. I posted the video before I knew anything about BTP's KS and I mentioned what happened only as part of explaining why I was making a video.

Sure, I am upset with BTP for how I was treated, but even more disappointed.

 Zweischneid wrote:

catachan1brainleaf wrote:
If there is a lot of legitimate criticisms brought against BTP why aren't other people allowed to know about it esp when they are asking for $40.000 ? willingly defrauding the IRS, poor worker employee relations and braking of labor laws ,lack of transparency about BTP`s financial status and work practice. it isn't a smear campaign if what your saying is true plus don't you think people have a right to know about things like this before parting with hard cash ?

so im worse than a man who engages in all of the above ? I`m also not posting on other forums trying to blacken BTP`s name .ok it seems giving a crap about the state of wargaming is a crime these days .have fun being self righteous and ignorant i don't care anymore .

Posting some information is fine.

Fake accounts like catachan1brainleaf or bowoflostcells, with 90% of their entire posting history dedicating to throwing mud at this Blue Table Painting discussion and literally occupying every other post here to stifle any kind of discussion of the information posted in its infancy, certainly does smell of a smear campaign.

If you're allowed to voice legitimate criticism (with altogether to much fanatical zeal), I am allowed to voice legitimate criticism of the rather shady nature of those voicing the criticism, who seem very eager to shout it into everyones face under the guise of anonymous fake-accounts created only for that purpose.

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt (or innocent until proven guilty), just as I'll give it to BTP. .that very big of you after what you just said .ya think maybe some of us are just honest but pissed off gamers ? the admins can check my IP or whatever they want but im telling you now this is my only account on here. and since my youtube channel of the same name is no longer on the go due in no small part to me getting sick of all the ego`s and money grabbing on there these days .you think i made this account prob over a year agi il actually have to check myself since i never use it just so i could lay in wait and slander BTP a year down the line about something i had no idea about lol man i didnt even remember this account until i tried to register and was reminded of it lol

I just conceded your point that I've made undue accusations when I should've given it more thought before posting.

What more do you want?

So I posted a thread on the MiniWarGaming forum hoping to spread some awareness of the issues surrounding BTP. They immediately locked it saying:

"Well I'm going to lock this thread as apparently most of what is being said is hearsay or plain false.

Also, there is nothing wrong with them using KickStarter the way they are. That is what it is there for."

The thread is here.

MiniWarGaming is obviously protecting BTP with the immediate assumption that everything said here is false - Even though Shawn has previously admitted to the tax fraud.