Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys just wanted to know before I made a purchase if cavalry are good in a high elf army, because just turned 17 and my first check from summer work came in and got some disposable income. I was looking at the High Elf Dragon princes and they look sweet and seem to have a cool stat line so am I thinking if I should take em. So far I have 1 battle force and an Island of blood for my army.

 BrotherGnaeus wrote:
Hey guys just wanted to know before I made a purchase if cavalry are good in a high elf army, because just turned 17 and my first check from summer work came in and got some disposable income. I was looking at the High Elf Dragon princes and they look sweet and seem to have a cool stat line so am I thinking if I should take em. So far I have 1 battle force and an Island of blood for my army.

I'd say they are a very solid "Average".
They aren't going to smash face like a horde of white lions will, but they can flank and support very effectively.

-Matt

Heavy cavalry are not the way forward in 8th for almost all factions. Exceptions exist such as Brets and Black Knights. High Elves don't have any such exceptions.

Nope.

You're better off spending your cash elsewhere e.g. Sword Masters (those still pack a punch!).

5 Dragon princes with a musician is a nice cheapish unit to throw on flanks or to deal with stuff like enemy archers and the like, or getting some nice rez on a combined combat.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Nope.

You're better off spending your cash elsewhere e.g. Sword Masters (those still pack a punch!).

Yeah, cause 2S5 attacks per model is something dragon princes can't do...
Oh wait.


Dragon princes trade staying power for speed and survivability. I wouldn't base an army around them, but adding a small unit does make most lists stronger.

-Matt

Silverhelms will do most of the things Dragon Princes do for significanly less and they die to the same stuff. But I'm not scoffing at the extra Initiative, extra attacks, extra WS, and Ld 9.
Incidentally, if im not mistaken, the silverhelm box comes with more models and is easily converted into dragon princes. But the plastic princes are amazing.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Nope.

You're better off spending your cash elsewhere e.g. Sword Masters (those still pack a punch!).

Yeah, cause 2S5 attacks per model is something dragon princes can't do...
Oh wait.

Turns out a model that's 2x the price of another might be stronger. Shocking.

Leith wrote:Silverhelms will do most of the things Dragon Princes do for significanly less and they die to the same stuff. But I'm not scoffing at the extra Initiative, extra attacks, extra WS, and Ld 9.
Incidentally, if im not mistaken, the silverhelm box comes with more models and is easily converted into dragon princes. But the plastic princes are amazing.

Actually, I find that Dragon Princes are a much better choice than Silver Helms. That extra attack and WS is certainly worth paying the points for because it helps them cause as much damage as possible when they charge in, which is really what you want for Cavalty. They're not going to win a prolonged fight, you just want to charge in and smash some stuff. It's what cavalry are designed to do, and DPs do it far better

Sigvatr wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Nope.

You're better off spending your cash elsewhere e.g. Sword Masters (those still pack a punch!).

Yeah, cause 2S5 attacks per model is something dragon princes can't do...
Oh wait.

Turns out a model that's 2x the price of another might be stronger. Shocking.

Yes, but Swordmasters are depressingly frail, with only a 5+ save. Dragon Princes are far more durable, with a 2+ save. And don't underestimate the usefulness of that 2+ ward against flaming attacks. In addition, Dragon Princes are obviously a lot faster, so can close with the enemy much quicker. And, because of their high save, a higher percentage of them will make it there.

Don't get me wrong, Swordmasters are utterly brilliant, but you make Dragon Princes sound like they're not worth taking at all, which is far from the truth.

Yes, I did sound kinda negative there.

Not worth at all? No. You are correct, they are a reliable unit. The problem I see is them being too expensive in 8th in order to have an actual impact compared to their cost and often, they might not even be able to deny rank bonusses.

DP's are like SM's though, they aren't there to deny rank bonuses, they're there to provide CR through chopping up troops, or clearing a flank of some pesky units.

Silver Helms and Reavers are super terrible. If either of them were core options then they'd be at least viable.

Dragon Princes do everything that Silver Helms do, only way better.

For 5 SH with shields it's 115.
5 DP's(who already have shields) are 150.

For 35 points you get:
+1WS, +1I, 5 more attacks, and the 2++ against fire.

The fact that both are special options is what tips the scale. Why spend points on mediocre cav when for just 35 points more they can be awesome and take up special points all the same?

 Aerethan wrote:
Silver Helms and Reavers are super terrible. If either of them were core options then they'd be at least viable.

Dragon Princes do everything that Silver Helms do, only way better.

For 5 SH with shields it's 115.
5 DP's(who already have shields) are 150.

For 35 points you get:
+1WS, +1I, 5 more attacks, and the 2++ against fire.

The fact that both are special options is what tips the scale. Why spend points on mediocre cav when for just 35 points more they can be awesome and take up special points all the same?

Silver Helms are much better as a character bus, simply because they're cheaper.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
Silver Helms and Reavers are super terrible. If either of them were core options then they'd be at least viable.

Dragon Princes do everything that Silver Helms do, only way better.

For 5 SH with shields it's 115.
5 DP's(who already have shields) are 150.

For 35 points you get:
+1WS, +1I, 5 more attacks, and the 2++ against fire.

The fact that both are special options is what tips the scale. Why spend points on mediocre cav when for just 35 points more they can be awesome and take up special points all the same?

Silver Helms are much better as a character bus, simply because they're cheaper.

HE shouldn't be running any characters that need a cavalry bus. At least not in an optimized list.

Well had some store credit left over from a tourney so I bought a box of Dragon princes. What should their load out be? Also as someone stated before, the DP's models are beautiful!

I run them 5 with just a musician. The other 2 aren't really worth it the points in small units.

In a game against my wife, my 5 man unit destroyed her 5 CoK's in a single round of combat, then flanked a 20 man RXB unit who broke, and then managed a flank into a second RXB unit of 20 who were engaged to the front and broke them. In a 1500 point game. It was beautiful.

They are a serious threat, and opponents who know that will put effort into stopping them, allowing other units some respite from ranged attacks and magic.

HE shouldn't be running any characters that need a cavalry bus. At least not in an optimized list.

Not entirely true. There have been extremely successful builds that are extremely cavalry heavy (for a HE army) which feature numerous cav mounted characters. The most notable of which is Seredain who is widely considered the creator of such a play style for HE.

He has a very extensive breakdown of his thought process and games which you can read here.

Thank you very much!

 Dawn of a new Warlord wrote:

HE shouldn't be running any characters that need a cavalry bus. At least not in an optimized list.

Not entirely true. There have been extremely successful builds that are extremely cavalry heavy (for a HE army) which feature numerous cav mounted characters. The most notable of which is Seredain who is widely considered the creator of such a play style for HE.

He has a very extensive breakdown of his thought process and games which you can read here.

Yup, that was the very list I had in mind with my comment. There's loads of awesome stuff other than it over at Ulthuan, so it's definitely worth checking out.