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since 6th edition and the arrive of HP's you don't see as many vehicles on the tabletop, so I was wondering which do you think is the better opinion to use Ion cannon or still the railgun for HH.

since the new FAQ because tau vehicles are IMHO the best at surviving .

 Puretide1 wrote:
since 6th edition and the arrive of HP's you don't see as many vehicles on the tabletop so I was wondering which do you think is the better opinion to use Ion cannon or still the railgun for hammerheads since the new FAQ because tau vehicles are IMHO the best at surviving .

Please us punctuation. Run on sentences are REALLY hard to read.

I would think the Ion-head got a boost, but the railgun is still better.

Ionhead all the way, IMO.

If you're looking for Railguns, you get them cheaper and more accurately on Broadsides. No reason to take them on a HH for anti-armor work.

Hammerheads work better in the anti-infantry role. Yes, you get the pie plate off the Railhead, and yes it works well. The problem is that it's so much more expensive than an Ionhead... Assuming you run twin BCs on them, they've got similar points efficiency against GEQs in BC range, even with the pieplate. Ionhead may kill slightly fewer MEQs than a pie plate, but does it for a lot fewer points, again making it more points efficient.

The best option though is a Forgeworld TL Plasma Cannon Hammerhead. Same cost as an Ionhead, 48" range, Heavy 4 twin linked. More killy, still cheap, and decent against flyers with S7 and twin linked.

The Ioncannon has no purpose as the Tau have plenty of anti-heavy infantry fire power elsewhere.

The railgun is good because its almost as accurate as a broadside railgun while also having pieplate capabilities. Considering the renewal of footsloggin hordes and the Tau's distinct lack of templates I would say the Railhead is invaluable.


I think the competitive Tau army will need at least one railhead and 1-2 units of Broadsides. Or possably two Railheads and one unit of broadsides.

If you are sticking with the codex (ie no forge world) then the Railgun is the only option for the Hammerhead. If you want anti-tank, you don't take a hammerhead, period. You take Broadside Teams, which are arguably the best AT unit in the game. Hammerheads are taken for the large blast template with the OPTION of using the single shot if you desperately need it.

Keep in mind the survivability of the HH.

Its going to have a 3+ cover save all the time(who's not taking disruption pods?)

it also has AV13.

AV13 with a 3+ cover save is going to be wicked hard to damage.

Its also mobile, something broadsides can't claim.


The versitility and durability combined with the dwindling amount of vehicles on the table makes the HH a no brainer choice.

Broadsides are still king of anti-tank, but they arn't needed as much anymore.

I agree that the Railgun is good at anti-armour and taking out chunks of GEQs with the sub-shot, but the Ion cannon is better at taking out MEQs and MCs with its 3 shots and we all know we always face space marines.

You are saving 70pts if you take 2 Ion cannons over Railguns with is points for 7 more FWs or a fireknifle, IMHO the railgun is to expensive on the HH at 50pts.

But Tau have plenty of anti-meq elsewhere and its not worth the loss in versatility.

Not to mention the large blast is actually better at killing PA then the ioncannon.

The Ion Cannon gets 2 hits with its 3 shots.

The submunition gets 5-6ish hits.

Both wound on 2s(IIRC)

So in the end both end up killing around 3 marines.

But thats all the Ion Cannon can do. it can't really hunt tanks or swarm infantry.


The Ion Cannon is a specilist weapon, the Railgun is multi-purpose.

Railhead.

Tau have very little trouble with Elite infantry. Horde not so much. Ionhead is good on Elite infantry, Railhead helps deal with horde and can turn on vehicles in a pinch.

Agreed with you Grey templar maybe I like the Ion cannon because it was given to use by the Demiurg (Squats) .

I'll admit, the Ion Cannon is cool.

maybe if the Hammerhead gets the option to purchase Skyfire it would be decent, or a Tau weapon emplacement with an Ion Cannon. Schmexy

I would like the Ion cannon as an option on the Broadsides could make a cool convision with that Idea .

It could be an interesting suit option for regular XV8s I think.

Maybe they swap all their weapon options for a single Ion Cannon. Sort of a "heavy weapon" trooper for suit units.

 Grey Templar wrote:
But Tau have plenty of anti-meq elsewhere and its not worth the loss in versatility.
Not to mention the large blast is actually better at killing PA then the ioncannon. The Ion Cannon gets 2 hits with its 3 shots. The submunition gets 5-6ish hits. Both wound on 2s(IIRC) So in the end both end up killing around 3 marines. But thats all the Ion Cannon can do. it can't really hunt tanks or swarm infantry. The Ion Cannon is a specilist weapon, the Railgun is multi-purpose.

If they kill the same number of MEQ, and the Ionhead is cheaper than the Railhead, then the Ionhead is a more efficient choice to do it.

Yes, you can get anti-MEQ elsewhere. You can also get anti-armor, and anti-horde elsewhere. It may not be the typical choice, but it is totally viable. And when you look at your choices from an efficiency point of view, you might well be better off taking Ionheads to handle MEQ duty and using the points you save for other things. Like TL fusion suits, or TL Flamer suits, or something like that. More FWs. Anything really...

Ionhead + XV8 with TL Flamers and a BSF (34 points) will probably kill more horde, more MEQ, more TEQ... more everything except heavy armor than a single Railhead. And that's a relatively poor way to use the extra 35 points.

It's about using the right tool for the job. If you're taking Railheads for your anti-horde that's cool, you'll not get any argument from me. My point is that you can get anti-anything in pretty much any slot but Troops, so you might as well figure out how efficient any given slot is at any given role, and pick the right mix from that.

TLFB suits - or MP/FB suits - rock the anti-armor role just fine. You can run high shot count suits - PR/BC is my personal favorite - for anti-TEQ and anti-GEQ if you want. Throw in some extra flamers on team leads and an AFP for kicks, and you've got a solid mix.

There's more variety in the 'dex than just Railheads.

Except the Railhead does the same damage to MEQs while also being able to hunt vehicles.

Again, you get 35 extra points to play with.

2 Railheads vs. 2 Ionheads and a 'Vre with AFP and TLFB, for example.

The point is that list choice and slot choice isn't independent - the best selection for each one is dependent on what else you've got in your list or could take in your list. If you need mobile anti-armor, you can get that elsewhere - and more efficiently. If you need anti-MEQ, there's more efficient options. If you need anti-horde, there's more efficient options. The Railhead is a nice generalist, sure, but you're paying an efficiency tax to get it.

It's the same as the Fireknife vs. other suit configurations debate. The FK is a phenomenal generalist, but there's also a better solution for any particular target set. Same thing applies here.

For the same price as a Railhead, I can field 3 TLFB / Flamer XV8s. They'll gank more infantry on average and do more damage to armor on average than a Railhead will. Or, I can run a mix of TLFB/FL, TLFL/FB, and PR/FB for a true gankfest - and still be running fewer points than a Railhead.

Ionheads are good volume of fire for the points, and do a number on MEQs in a very points efficient manner. That lets you use the points you save - generally 70-105, depending on how many Railheads you'd be taking - to take more efficient options to shore up any holes in your list.

That's the whole point of the Ionhead - lower cost, more options and flexibility in the rest of your list.

 Puretide1 wrote:
Agreed with you Grey templar maybe I like the Ion cannon because it was given to use by the Demiurg (Squats) .

As a small note, you'll find people in tactics are more interested in the most effective choices- not the fluffy bits that we like. If you want to use a unit due to the fluff, say it- otherwise you'll get alot of "use unit A over B because A can do X Y and Z but unit B can only do X Y" and other such things

It's funny the places that 40k yoinks its fluff from at times

Railgun still gives you the large blast marker; I prefer the railgun for increased range and versatility. Plus the ion cannon is the ugliest thing in the entire Tau Codex.

Typically the railgun is the better option, and it looks a lot cooler to boot. The railgun is one of only two sources of large blast templates in the book, the other being the ABFP, which while also being a good choice, is a weaker template, and you are limited to one per army. And while not as effective as a broadside squad, the railgun solid shot is still an excellent anti-vehicle weapon.

The ion cannon suffers from the same problem as the neutron blaster and the railrifle. They are only really good at one thing, killing MEQ. Against TEQ they are worthless, and against horde they will never inflict enough casualties to matter. Worse, these weapons will barely outperform small arms fire from Kroot and Firewarriors even against their preferred targets. If the MEQs have cover or your in rapid fire range with Kroot or Firewarriors, they actually get outperformed by small arms fire. Railgun submunitions will also outperform them when there are enough MEQs on the board, i.e. when you will need anti-MEQ firepower the most. Plasma rifles also have similar anti-MEQ efficiency in rapid fire range while also effective against TEQ.

Basically ion cannons are overspecialized weapons that don't even perform that well against the correct targets, a problem shared by neutron blasters and railrifles. They can be fun in casual games but if you want to know which weapon will be more effective on the tabletop, it is without a doubt the railgun.

As a small note, you'll find people in tactics are more interested in the most effective choices- not the fluffy bits that we like. If you want to use a unit due to the fluff, say it- otherwise you'll get alot of "use unit A over B because A can do X Y and Z but unit B can only do X Y" and other such things

lol I kno just making a joke .

Neither. Plasmahead. Go buy stuff from ForgeWorld. A Plasmahead is exactly the same as the Ionhead, just twinlinked and one more shot for the same price point.

Veskrashen wrote:
TLFB suits - or MP/FB suits - rock the anti-armor role just fine.

Except they really don't. You need to kill vehicles from long range, and that means some combination of Broadsides and/or railgun Hammerheads. Melta is nice, but it can't be your primary anti-tank weapon.

Rakeeb wrote:
Neither. Plasmahead. Go buy stuff from ForgeWorld. A Plasmahead is exactly the same as the Ionhead, just twinlinked and one more shot for the same price point.

This. The plasma cannon option is FW's way of saying "sorry GW won't update your codex, here's some help".

Or you could always just get a Barracuda if you really need an ion cannon.

 Peregrine wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:
TLFB suits - or MP/FB suits - rock the anti-armor role just fine.

Except they really don't. You need to kill vehicles from long range, and that means some combination of Broadsides and/or railgun Hammerheads. Melta is nice, but it can't be your primary anti-tank weapon.

Except that there's a lot of armies where melta is their primary anti-armor weapon, and just like in those cases, Deep Strike means that range isn't an issue. And unlike those armies, our deep striking Crisis can get out of the way of any retaliation better due to the assault phase thrust move.

And yes, Plasmahead all the way. Waiting on 3 turrets to get delivered....

There's also the fact that a railgun solid shot will ID anything short of an MC, so against things like biker nobz, tyranid warriors, blood angels, a lone IC, it is more effective.
Not saying you should be using your shots for that, but if the opportunity comes up...

Oh yeah, absolutely railguns have their place - on Broadsides. They're more reliable Railgun platforms than the Hammerhead, as the Hammerhead is more vulnerable to a bad streak of dice rolling. Probability theory and all that. Plus, you can get more of their for their relative points value than if you put 'em on a Hammerhead.

Veskrashen wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:
TLFB suits - or MP/FB suits - rock the anti-armor role just fine.

Except they really don't. You need to kill vehicles from long range, and that means some combination of Broadsides and/or railgun Hammerheads. Melta is nice, but it can't be your primary anti-tank weapon.

Except that there's a lot of armies where melta is their primary anti-armor weapon, and just like in those cases, Deep Strike means that range isn't an issue. And unlike those armies, our deep striking Crisis can get out of the way of any retaliation better due to the assault phase thrust move.

Except theres a lot of armies where they don't have access to S10 AP1 shooting attacks from across the board. So we use melta, and look longingly at your railguns.

Your railguns are a safer form of AA than melta. Use fusion guns as scalpels, but not your primary AT.

 Jihallah wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:
TLFB suits - or MP/FB suits - rock the anti-armor role just fine.

Except they really don't. You need to kill vehicles from long range, and that means some combination of Broadsides and/or railgun Hammerheads. Melta is nice, but it can't be your primary anti-tank weapon.

Except that there's a lot of armies where melta is their primary anti-armor weapon, and just like in those cases, Deep Strike means that range isn't an issue. And unlike those armies, our deep striking Crisis can get out of the way of any retaliation better due to the assault phase thrust move.

Except theres a lot of armies where they don't have access to S10 AP1 shooting attacks from across the board. So we use melta, and look longingly at your railguns.

Your railguns are a safer form of AA than melta. Use fusion guns as scalpels, but not your primary AT.

Plus there's a lot of armies that don't mind getting up close to kill something. Tau aren't one of them.

 Jihallah wrote:
Except theres a lot of armies where they don't have access to S10 AP1 shooting attacks from across the board. So we use melta, and look longingly at your railguns.
Your railguns are a safer form of AA than melta. Use fusion guns as scalpels, but not your primary AT.

Different styles of play. I hate sitting back doing the gunline thing. My style of play is much more mobile, meched up with deep striking Crisis in support. I generally don't care what the front armor facing of something is, because I'm going to be volleying 2-3 suits into the side / rear instead. As far as survivability goes, it's a difficult thing to measure - suits plus shield drones are pretty survivable, especially when you can JSJ into cover etc. Not to mention the fact that while you may look longingly at our S10 AP1 smack you from across the board goodness, the simple fact is that fusion in it's proper range is still hands down better at cracking open armor - particularly on a per-point basis. I can run 3 fusion suits for the same price as a Railhead, and get better anti-armor results from that configuration.

Look, the point here is that you get anti-armor in multiple flavors. You've got Railheads, Ionheads, Broadsides, any suits with Missile Pods, any suits with Fusion, and Piranhas with Fusion. Your most efficient against AV13+ is either Broadsides or suits with Fusion, preferably TL Fusion or FB/MP combos. Against anything lighter, Missile Pods and Ion Cannons do just fine. There's little universal AV14 out there, and a few FBs do the job just fine. You do not need Railheads. You don't even need Railguns. You can do anti-armor just fine without them. If you choose not to use Railguns, you need to compensate with other slots - which are freed up from doing their original roles because your Hammerheads are taking those roles. You're basically swapping the anti-armor role from HS to Elite or FA slots, and freeing up your HS to do other things instead.