Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HQ
Company Command Squad - x4 plasma guns, Chimera - 165 pts

TROOP
Infantry Platoon
Platoon Command Squad - x4 plasma guns, Chimera (hull heavy flamer) - 145 pts
Infantry Squad - Flamer, Commissar - 90 pts
Infantry Squad (x3) - Flamer - 55 pts each
Heavy Weapons Squad - x3 lascannons - 105 pts
Heavy Weapons Squad - x3 autocannons - 75 pts

Veteran Squad - x6 shotguns, x3 meltaguns, Harker, Chimera (hull heavy flamer) - 210 pts

Veteran Squad (x2) - x3 meltaguns, Chimera (hull heavy flamer) - 155 pts each

ELITE
Marbo - 65 pts

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta (x2) - 130 pts each

HEAVY SUPPORT
Manticore - 160 pts

Notes: It's an all-comers list for any scenario, objectives or killing. Infantry can combine at deployment for a defensive wall. Harker's vets can outflank from reserve to deliver some melta or heavy bolter/flamer love to whatever's in the back ranks (along with Marbs and the vendettas). The other vets are versatile - MEQ/vehicle hunting or objective-holders.

Am I weak somewhere? Any blind spots I need to consider? Thanks in advance!

My only beef with this list is one of organization; the Vendettas are perfectly capable of hauling the Veterans, if you move the two melta vet Chimeras to some of the Infantry squads and load the Veterans into the Vendettas they become rather more versatile and speedier. Other than that the only weakness I see is a lack of melee, but with Guard you're kind of boned there anyway. Looks good.

My only beef with this list is one of organization; the Vendettas are perfectly capable of hauling the Veterans, if you move the two melta vet Chimeras to some of the Infantry squads and load the Veterans into the Vendettas they become rather more versatile and speedier. Other than that the only weakness I see is a lack of melee, but with Guard you're kind of boned there anyway. Looks good.

Pretty much that

 AnomanderRake wrote:
My only beef with this list is one of organization; the Vendettas are perfectly capable of hauling the Veterans, if you move the two melta vet Chimeras to some of the Infantry squads and load the Veterans into the Vendettas they become rather more versatile and speedier. Other than that the only weakness I see is a lack of melee, but with Guard you're kind of boned there anyway. Looks good.

I don't see this as such a big issue, Sure they are more vulnerable in the chimeras, but to deploy the vets out of a vendetta you will have to make it revert to a skimmer making your vendettas far more vulnerable themselves. I guess it depends on what you want to protect how you tend to use your vendettas.

aleis wrote:
but to deploy the vets out of a vendetta you will have to make it revert to a skimmer

Well that's just not true. Aleis, you normally give good advice! You can grav-chute them if you want, which is a pretty reliable strategy. Edit: When I say "pretty reliable" I mean around 50%, so normal guard reliability.

My major problem with this list is the lack of heavy weapons in the platoon infantry squads and the inclusion of HWSs. HWSs will be shot down fast, and with LD 7, they run. A lot! They are doubled out by str 6 and higher, which is fairly common. Why not just put those weapons in your infantry squads, then they have 8 other ablative wounds before the weapons are even touched!

Thanks, all! I tend to use my Vendettas as very mobile tank killers, so it'd hobble them to deal with troop deployment. Plus, why risk my veterans to grav chutes when they're probably safer in their Chimeras?

I'll look at moving the HW teams into the infantry squads. I'm usually concerned about keeping my squads mobile, which would nerf the HWT. Using HWS I can drop them in cover and never move them. They're vulnerable to assaults and templates, but they're behind a wall of infantry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonus question: I considered dropping the platoon entirely, taking four vet squads without Harker, and adding in a third Vendetta and two Demolishers instead. Preference?

 Griddlelol wrote:

Well that's just not true. Aleis, you normally give good advice! You can grav-chute them if you want, which is a pretty reliable strategy. Edit: When I say "pretty reliable" I mean around 50%, so normal guard reliability.

My bad you are indeed correct. All brain cells responcible for that comment have been sacked.

plus1jeremy wrote:Thanks, all! I tend to use my Vendettas as very mobile tank killers, so it'd hobble them to deal with troop deployment. Plus, why risk my veterans to grav chutes when they're probably safer in their Chimeras?

The vend does this in it's movement phase, there's no loss of shooting any more as the FAQ says as long as it's moved 6", which for a zooming flier is mandatory. The grav-chute may seem more risky on paper, but it avoids getting the transport popped in turn 1, and gets them exactly where they need to be. My last 2 games I've had a chimera immobilised by difficult terrain only to put a wrench in my plans and the squad inside get gutted by bolter fire. Remember, there's no downside to dropping them in terrain, they have to take the dangerous terrain test whether they land in it or not (unless they don't scatter). I like to put melta vets in the vends, plasma vets have a decent range and so the chimera really suits them, but with melta, unless they're near their target they're kinda pointless. I've had good use of "demolitions" doctrine too.
10 dudes with melta bombs, 3 melta guns and a demo charge are a priority target for just about every army when they drop in their deployment zone. It's win-win. If they shoot your glass cannon in their deployment, they're not shooting your other things, if they ignore it, it does what it does best!

plus1jeremy wrote:I'll look at moving the HW teams into the infantry squads. I'm usually concerned about keeping my squads mobile, which would nerf the HWT. Using HWS I can drop them in cover and never move them. They're vulnerable to assaults and templates, but they're behind a wall of infantry.

The HWS are tempting to most players, it's just that they don't work. LD 7 is a major issue, so is the lack of ablative wounds. If you have vets, they're mobile. Let the platoon do what it does best and sit back and shoot. Foot slogging 20 men (minimum) isn't fun. The squad can still go in cover, I normally park mine behind an ADL and set up a nice fire lane for my autocannons.

plus1jeremy wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonus question: I considered dropping the platoon entirely, taking four vet squads without Harker, and adding in a third Vendetta and two Demolishers instead. Preference?

A third vendetta would help you out, that much redundancy isn't a bad thing. The Demolishers I'm not a fan of. There are just better Russes out there. I'm all for AV:14 but not the demolisher, it just doesn't seem worth it. I've been recommending the Executioner a lot recently, I love them. My only complain is the range, but you were going to take Demolishers anyway. The Executioner fills more than one roll which is why I love it. It excels against elite armies, and does well against hordes. It also is pretty decent for popping transports.
I do like a platoon in my lists, mainly because it fills the role of a mini gunline. I dunno, maybe this is just preference, but I feel it adds a kill zone that people aren't always willing to enter, or acts as a pretty cheap distraction or can move to an objective on turn 5.

aleis wrote:My bad you are indeed correct. All brain cells responcible for that comment have been sacked.

Everyone makes mistakes XD

I would suggest an ADL for your blob and manticore, like Griddlelol said. As much as I like to footslog (well, I mean outflank) a blob with no heavy weapons, I do it for fun, not to be competitive. HWSs get picked off very easily and their awesome leadership is a big problem, so I recommend consolidating them into the blob. Keep the flamers though, if you get charged they're great for overwatch. I second the advice about an executioner in favor of a demolisher, the only downside is the points cost.

Thanks again for the great feedback. I tried the suggestions, dropping the Vets' Chimeras and HWS and taking a third Vendetta and ADL. I felt like the Manticore was too much of a liability with the Meltavets dropping into the enemy's ranks.

What would be good support for that kind of list? I thought about Medusas to keep the S10 large blasts, since I can get two of them. I like Executioners a lot, but at that price tag I could only get one. I prefer redundancy in tournament lists.

I'm not a big fan of any of the artillery pieces with the exception of Griffons, which I love. The short range of the Medusas and the sheer number of deep strikes/outflankers that are around makes me hate investing the points into something with only 36" range and no movement. Griffons on the other hand are cheap and cheerful, but with accurate bombardment, your opponent will have to make a lot of saves, especially as you can almost get 2 for the price of 1 Medusa.

Personally, with a mobile list like yours, I think Russes are a better option. Even if you go bare-bones, the ap3 is nice and they're a great distraction with AV14. I will plug the Executioner again - in my game today it made back double it's points, while being immobilised for 2 turns.

Here's a version more in-line with all the suggestions. Thanks again, all.

HQ
CCS - x2 plasma guns, lascannon HWT, Chimera - 155pts

TROOPS
Platoon - 360pts
PCS - x4 plasma guns, Chimera (hull heavy flamer)
Infantry Squad (x3) - autocannon HWT, Commissar (one squad only)

Veterans (x3) - x3 meltaguns, x6 shotguns - 100pts each

ELITE
Marbo - 65pts

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta (x3) - 130pts each

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Executioner (x2) - hull heavy flamer - 190pts each

FORTIFICATION
Aegis Defense Line - Quad-gun - 100pts

Why the HHF when you can get the HHB which'll possibly get more shots off per game.

On the PCS Chimera, it's to get a flamer near my platoon. I intend to keep them close for orders.

On the Executioners, odds are good they'll be shooting at stuff that can't really be hurt by a heavy bolter. I'd rather the insurance against assaults. Sometimes the threat is enough to keep an enemy at bay.

I still don't like plasma in PCSs. It's expensive (60 points), they only have flak armor, and it's only BS3. Flamers are cheaper, and with the points left over you can add more flamers to your blobs to overwatch when you get charged.

If you drop the plasmas, you can fit 4 flamers in the PCS, 3 in the blob, and have 25 points left over. Maybe add heavy stubbers on the executioners? It adds another weapon in case you get a weapon destroyed.

Templates are fairly tempting... have to give that some thought. I've never run more than one flamer in a squad before. I'll try it out in a private game and see how it goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum: I tried using the 25 points for meltabombs on the Company Commander, Platoon Commander, and the sergeants of each infantry squad. It has obvious anti-vehicle help, but it can also make for a hilarious defense against assault since the sergeants can issue challenges and insta-kill an enemy character (if they're lucky enough to survive to their initiative count). If they stay in cover, they can drop a lot of attackers to I1 and get that hit off.

plus1jeremy wrote:
Templates are fairly tempting... have to give that some thought. I've never run more than one flamer in a squad before. I'll try it out in a private game and see how it goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum: I tried using the 25 points for meltabombs on the Company Commander, Platoon Commander, and the sergeants of each infantry squad. It has obvious anti-vehicle help, but it can also make for a hilarious defense against assault since the sergeants can issue challenges and insta-kill an enemy character (if they're lucky enough to survive to their initiative count). If they stay in cover, they can drop a lot of attackers to I1 and get that hit off.

That's not true, the enemy character must be a monstrous creature for you to use meltabombs on them.

Ah, missed that part. Might just grab a couple power weapons for the company commander and commissar then. I see your point about the extra weapons for the executioners, but I don't like adding weapons to avoid weapon destroyed results.