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So kill team operation protinus is coming up. What do people think will be the most popular builds/ most successful builds etc.
I can't decide between space wolves, chaos and orks.

I would go for:

5 Chaos Terminators:
1 Chain Fist
2 Power Fists
1 Heavy Flamer
1 Combi Flamer
1 Combi Metla
2 Power Weapons (Preferably Swords so they are not Unwieldy but this is not really an option with the plastic pack so maybe go for the Axe and the Mace and swith one of the powerfists for a pair of lightening claws)

The weapon options on Choosen are too expensive and too restrictive.
Don't really know about spacewolves.
Don't think you can tool up the orks enough. You would either end up with Mega-nobz or 6 Nobz, a pain boy and a couple of claws.

I can't remember, but a lot of Kill team rules don't allow 2+ saves, for fairness, or models with more than 2 wounds. I think they'd all be fun, personally, but for effectiveness I say take some Nurgle Marines.

The tournament isn't unitl december so i may wait for the new chaos codex and have a little look see what it offrers

Thousand sons with divination warlock and ap3 bolters

from the event pdf:

The Kill Team rules in Battle Missions form the basis for this event and
they are a very different way of playing Warhammer 40,000.

You may spend up to 200 points using the
following Force Organisation Chart:

0 – 1 Elite
0 – 2 Troops
0 – 1 Fast Attack

You may pick up to three individual models in your force as being
“Specialists” that benefit from one of the universal special rules from the
Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook. These specialists and the rules they have
must be declared on your army list, as should which model represents
them. All specialists in your force must pick a different universal special
rule and you may not give more than one specialist rule to each model.
Your Leader (explained below) may be one of your specialists.

So in theory, 13 burna boyz come in at 195.
Thats 13 templates, or a ton of AP3 attacks.

The battle continues until one side has been reduced to half it’s starting number models or less. Once a player’s force has been reduced to half strength he must take a Leadership test, called a Break Tests at the start of each of his turns, using the Leader’s Ld value (or, if he is no longer alive, the next highest). If he fails, then his Kill Team flees and the other player wins the battle. If the test is passed then the battle continues, but the player will have to take another Break Test at the start of his next turn. Note that it is entirely possible for both players to have to take Break Tests at the
start of their turns and the first one to fail will lose the battle.

Every Man For Himself: All models operate as individual units in this mission, even if they were chosen as part of a squad or squadron. In addition, when a model shoots or fights in an assault, it may split its attacks up amongst any eligible targets if desired. Take the Loot! The central objective represents a valuable target, be it a weapons cache, enemy intelligence or a supply drop. To hold it, just one non–vehicle model (of any type – not just Troops!) must be within 3” of it at the end of the game, with no enemy models also within 3" of it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jackal wrote:
So in theory, 13 burna boyz come in at 195.
Thats 13 templates, or a ton of AP3 attacks.

Yep but only having 13 6+ armour save dudes would worry me and when you lose 50% you take leadership tests at the start of each turn, you fail one and you lose i think :(.

da orks are da best

21 shoota boys
2 boys with big shootas
1 nob with PK
24 models total. 50 shots a turn.

as most other armies will only have 5-10 models a few failed saves and they're toast.

If you're allowed 2 wound models then I would go for either Tau or Orks. If not, then I would say either Sapce Wolves for that undercosted Grey Hunter Goodness, or Space Wolves again for highly customisable Wolf Guard.

Another possibility is to run a Guard Inf Platoon.

If you really want to swarm them use Gretchin. You can get about 58 gretchin into 200 points.

Could just run 20 'ard boyz with shootas. 20 T4 models with a +4 save should be tough for just about anyone to kill. And you've got more than enough shots to whittle down higher armored opponents.

Your kill team should be able to kill anything.

If the rules you are playing to do not let your opponent have 2+ saves and multiple wounds because theses models are too hard to kill then you're not really playing with a kill team.

Elite, Elite Elite! Don't roll up with 50 conscripts!

Jasper wrote:
If the rules you are playing to do not let your opponent have 2+ saves and multiple wounds because theses models are too hard to kill then you're not really playing with a kill team.

Hardly, it's just a simple recognition of the fact that at 200 points you can't cover all possibilities, especially when you can snipe heavy weapon models. If you bring enough volume of fire to handle a horde you can't kill a tank. If you bring anti-tank weapons you don't have volume of fire to kill a horde. Etc. Without those rules the game just becomes a question of flipping a coin to see if you brought a list your opponent can't deal with.

And if you disagree, let's see your list that can handle the 58 gretchin list, AV 14 and a terminator/sternguard army.

Edit: Ignore this just realised OP was choosing between 3 armies not all of them.

5 Trueborn with 2 Splinter Cannon, 2 Blaster, 1 Carbine, Plasma Grenades
4 Reavers with Heat Lance

Seems reasonable. Could probably be optimised as that's just off the top of my head.

Do devil gaunts with a prime (or just a warrior)...10 devil gaunts is 30 shots/turn...A full squad of 20 will statistically kill a little over 4 terminators a turn if I remember right, but its been a while.

The issue would be range and survivability. How big are the tables for Kill Team usually?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wait I just realized you get elites, run Ymargls, you won't need any more special rules.

as far as i am aware all the usual rules apply regarding 2+ armour saves and multiple wound models.
If go down the space wolf route I'm thinking of kitting together a monster of a lone wolf and grey hunters with the left over points.
As far as i've ever seen the only draw back of a lonewolf is that he can't join squads... well nothing can in killteam everything counts as its own unit. It seems to me that all the lone wolfs little problems are negated for kill team, thoughts anyone?

I can't remember, but I think the kill teams rules in 4th ed rulebook disallow more than 2 wound models and 2+ saves, but I could be wrong.

I think a variety of single Eldar aspect warriors would be fun. As you can take single models, right? A few Dire Avengers, A Fire Dragon, A Warp Spider, a Few Swooping Hawks (good Vehicle insurance, with the Fire Dragon) ...

 evildrspock wrote:
I can't remember, but I think the kill teams rules in 4th ed rulebook disallow more than 2 wound models and 2+ saves, but I could be wrong.

I think a variety of single Eldar aspect warriors would be fun. As you can take single models, right? A few Dire Avengers, A Fire Dragon, A Warp Spider, a Few Swooping Hawks (good Vehicle insurance, with the Fire Dragon) ...

nope squad limits apply but they just act individually

So you would have to still buy the minimum squad requirements, but they can move independently? Sounds cool. Heck, one Space Marine Tactical Squad with the right weapons variety would do pretty good all by itself.

 evildrspock wrote:
So you would have to still buy the minimum squad requirements, but they can move independently? Sounds cool. Heck, one Space Marine Tactical Squad with the right weapons variety would do pretty good all by itself.

Yep minimum squad sizes apply, its hard to decide whether to go for numbers or elites.

With the Chaos Marine cultists that are coming in @ 3 ppm in the new CSM codex, you could field approx. 66 cultists. that's a lot of bodies. I have no idea what they do, though.

I might be inclined to play with necron destroyers of some type or another. They seem like they'd have a grand time kiting other elite armies, you'd have to worry about pincers though.

Jasper wrote:
If the rules you are playing to do not let your opponent have 2+ saves and multiple wounds because theses models are too hard to kill then you're not really playing with a kill team.

Hardly, it's just a simple recognition of the fact that at 200 points you can't cover all possibilities, especially when you can snipe heavy weapon models. If you bring enough volume of fire to handle a horde you can't kill a tank. If you bring anti-tank weapons you don't have volume of fire to kill a horde. Etc. Without those rules the game just becomes a question of flipping a coin to see if you brought a list your opponent can't deal with.

And if you disagree, let's see your list that can handle the 58 gretchin list, AV 14 and a terminator/sternguard army.

AV14 with 200 points will not get you good side or rear armour. Most tanks you would be able to get within the cost could theoretically be glanced to death by bolters or cleanly take out by a single meltagun
58 Gretchin could be easily dealt with by terminators
Terminators / Sternguard by each other or Sternguard by banshees/rangers.

I don't really know the kill team composition rules but if your going to have a force organisation chart you might as well play a small game. If your going to have a nitty gritty fight to the death then you want a team of rock hard killing machines in a small area.

Why would you put a tank in a kill team? After your team has had a good day crushing their enemies and they all pop down the pub for a bit of bonding:
1. You can't buy a drink for a tank.
2. Defiler/Dreadnought would drink too much, break the door, hit their head on the ceiling and be mean drunks.
3. If you have 58 gretchin the poor grunts who bought the first few rounds would be broke. Although they would make it back in selling glasses and bar stools the next day.

Out of interest Peregrine what would you take if you needed to comply with the rules and what would you take if you had freedom of choice?

I had loads of fun in a kill team game where i deployed 3 Ogryns and a couple of Scout Sentinels.

Its worth pointing out that you can elect 3 'specialists' and give them any universal special rule from the rulebook. meaning you can give a model the armour bane special rule, someone else the fleshbane special rule and even make another model a psker.

BAN wrote:
from the event pdf:

You may pick up to three individual models in your force as being
“Specialists” that benefit from one of the universal special rules from the
Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook. These specialists and the rules they have
must be declared on your army list, as should which model represents
them. All specialists in your force must pick a different universal special
rule and you may not give more than one specialist rule to each model.
Your Leader (explained below) may be one of your specialists.

model the armour bane special rule, someone else the fleshbane special rule

But that's special rules for weapon, not models?

I have questions about "all models independent" rule:
1) they can move anywhere without staying 2'' each other?
2) they choose targets as characters do?
3) how they charge?
4) no need for failed HtH moral checks?
5) comissar is useless?
6) some models of unit in HtH and others can shoot?

Jasper wrote:
Out of interest Peregrine what would you take if you needed to comply with the rules and what would you take if you had freedom of choice?

Comply with the rules: nobz, battlewagon dedicated transport, 50 points of upgrades for the battlewagon. Snipe the melta gun and laugh.

Freedom of choice: guardsman Marbo with the smash USR (so he's now a MC) and as many Marauder Destroyers as I can fit on a 6x4 table. If I'm not complying with the rules I'm not complying with ANY of the rules.

 Freakazoitt wrote:

model the armour bane special rule, someone else the fleshbane special rule

But that's special rules for weapon, not models?

Yeah, it's for the model's melee attacks but for ranged attacks it's a weapon property and having it on the model gets you nothing. So it's great if you can get into melee, but worthless otherwise.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Freakazoitt wrote:
1) they can move anywhere without staying 2'' each other?

Yes. They are entirely separate units, coherency does not apply.

2) they choose targets as characters do?

No, but since the only possible targets are all single-model units the character "snipe on a 6" rule doesn't have any meaningful effect.

3) how they charge?

By following the normal rules for charging just like any other single model unit. Of course you'll probably never get to charge more than one opposing model at a time.

4) no need for failed HtH moral checks?

Combat works as normal. If you lose and still have surviving models in the fight (for example, a multiwound model) you roll morale as normal.

5) comissar is useless?

That depends on your definition of "useless". He can't protect your other models, but he still potentially counts as your highest LD model on the table for victory conditions and has all of his usual weapons.

6) some models of unit in HtH and others can shoot?

There is no such thing as a unit with more than one model in kill team games.

Use 5 wraiths with 2 whips and 1 partical beamer

 Necron123 wrote:
A doomsday ark and a cyptek is 200.

Annother option is just a monolith

Actually not. The kill team FOC doesn't allow you to take heavy support or HQ units, it's 0-2 troops, 0-1 elite, 0-1 fast attack. The battlewagon trick only works because you can take it as a dedicated transport for the nobz.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Necron123 wrote:
A doomsday ark and a cyptek is 200.

Annother option is just a monolith

Actually not. The kill team FOC doesn't allow you to take heavy support or HQ units, it's 0-2 troops, 0-1 elite, 0-1 fast attack. The battlewagon trick only works because you can take it as a dedicated transport for the nobz.

I just fixed that
Wraiths will do