Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been toying with the idea of a C:SM devastator squad (I know, they're overpriced) with four heavy bolters. Given the new(ish) hull point and cover rules I feel they might be useful, if not entertaining.
So, Dakka, what do you think? could I get some mileage out of HB devs without turning to BA or SW?

Could be a good unit to park in cover on an objective then make a nuisance of itself with lots of dakka dakka - overwatch rules will make it relatively difficult to budge via assault.

 Clang wrote:
Could be a good unit to park in cover on an objective then make a nuisance of itself with lots of dakka dakka - overwatch rules will make it relatively difficult to budge via assault.

3 shots per HB, 4 HB's, 12 shots, hitting on 6's, averages out on 2 HB hits.
2 extra S5 hits makes them relatively difficult to budge via assault? Depends on what your assaulting with, doesn't it? Plenty of unit spring to mind that go "ok...you hit me twice with heavy bolters...i'm gonna just wipe your squad in melee now"
Overwatch is neat but its effects are often grossly overestimated.

For what it's worth, would you consider 1-3 double heavy bolter land speaders? They can provide mobile fire power, moving 12" and still fire to full effect. I've found them very useful in 6th. I also like double MM speeders and double HF speaders, but typically thats with Vulkan in the list.

The double HB speeder has never let me down.


*I have played against a SW player that used multiple rune priest and would attach them to his Long Fangs. He rolled random power and got the 'no Cover save' power and attached to this 5 Heaby bolter Long fang squad. He murdered a Tau player at the tournement.

I'm a fan of HB squads. It depends on the list they will be supporting but I think they have specific roles to fill.

I run a long fang squad with 3 ML and 2 HB, I found them to be consistently effective. I tried out the tactic of putting a Rune Priest with prescience with them as we'll and turn out very well.

Just remember if you're going to put them on an objective, they are heavy support and therefore can't control it. Unless of course you're playing Big Guns Never Tire. So if you're about to get assaulted, but them behind the tactical squad controlling that objective and let them take the assault.

 Jihallah wrote:

 Clang wrote:
Could be a good unit to park in cover on an objective then make a nuisance of itself with lots of dakka dakka - overwatch rules will make it relatively difficult to budge via assault.

3 shots per HB, 4 HB's, 12 shots, hitting on 6's, averages out on 2 HB hits.
2 extra S5 hits makes them relatively difficult to budge via assault? Depends on what your assaulting with, doesn't it? Plenty of unit spring to mind that go "ok...you hit me twice with heavy bolters...i'm gonna just wipe your squad in melee now"
Overwatch is neat but its effects are often grossly overestimated.

This cant be said enough times. Overwatch is pretty much just gimmicky, unless ofc you happen to roll "Foreboding" on the Divination table in which case it might actually matter. Or if you try to assault a full squad of Burna Boyz...in which case you are going to lose a butt load of units.

HBs are nice. They are the other jack-of-all-trades weapon (besides the ML) Sending waves of S5 rounds downrange will eventually kill most things. MLs get the nod because krack missiles work a lot better then trying to glance vehicles to death. Against hordes I'd much rather take a HB then frag missiles.

I take Dev squads for anti-infantry fire. So my choices for weapons generally revolves around MLs, HBs, and PCs. I like a 2x2 mix, just because sometimes there is no infantry to shoot, so having some high strength weapons to pop transports is a good thing (i.e. first turn vs. a meched up army) My scatter die hates me, so I shy away from frag missiles. That leaves HBs as a good, cheep, option. Plus they look cool.

If you do field an all HB dev squad, make sure it is a regular part of your army, or a set tournament list. If not, some players will accuse you of list tailoring. I've seen it happen. Back in the day, one of the regulars at my FLGS always fielded an all HB squad for his Iron Warriors army. A visiting 'Nid player got all bent out of shape that he was being tailored against until we explained that it was what the kid -always- fielded.

 Doomhunter wrote:
I've been toying with the idea of a C:SM devastator squad (I know, they're overpriced) with four heavy bolters. Given the new(ish) hull point and cover rules I feel they might be useful, if not entertaining.
So, Dakka, what do you think? could I get some mileage out of HB devs without turning to BA or SW?

Hey doomhunter. How does your current army play? Are you mech, podding, slogging? This plays an important roll into how to effectively field these guys. I currently run a unit of LF with all heavy bolters and drop pod them in. With a Rune Priest (Librarian) This unit tears things up and is cheap enough to not worry too much if they become a target. I find that heavy bolters are just as amazing in this edition as they were before and continue to be well worth their points. Anyway let me know a few more details and we will work from there.

 Defeater wrote:

 Doomhunter wrote:
I've been toying with the idea of a C:SM devastator squad (I know, they're overpriced) with four heavy bolters. Given the new(ish) hull point and cover rules I feel they might be useful, if not entertaining.
So, Dakka, what do you think? could I get some mileage out of HB devs without turning to BA or SW?

Hey doomhunter. How does your current army play? Are you mech, podding, slogging? This plays an important roll into how to effectively field these guys. I currently run a unit of LF with all heavy bolters and drop pod them in. With a Rune Priest (Librarian) This unit tears things up and is cheap enough to not worry too much if they become a target. I find that heavy bolters are just as amazing in this edition as they were before and continue to be well worth their points. Anyway let me know a few more details and we will work from there.

My army is mostly a gunline, with a few deepstriking units to keep my opponent on his toes.
I usually have a rifleman dread and a tri las predator, and because FW is allowed in my area, I have a contemptor mortis that I usually field. Oh, I have the usual tac squads for objective capping. The main problem my list(s) have is a lack of long range anti-infantry firepower, so I thought I might put this idea forward.

I faced one of these before, chuckled to myself at the beginning of the game that it was a weird squad.

4 turns later I was not laughing, that is insane amount of anti infantry firepower even if you are a space marine.

3+ to hit, 3+ or 2+ to wound on almost all troops? And 12 shots?

YUCK.

I run a four heavy bolter Devastator unit and a four missile launcher Devastator unit in my Dark Angels army, they're marvelous at controlling fire lanes. Anyone who doesn't know that they want to avoid being shot at by the funny guys with the big machine guns will learn so very rapidly.

Also because one of them is a whacked-on Marine using a Land Speeder's heavy bolter with a pistol grip since I thought it was funny.

Would add sometimes a TFC can deliver same or better output for far lesspoints, albiet its far more fragile.

HBs also mesh well with the bolters in the squad. 12 HB shots, three at BS5, plus 5 ot 10 bolter shots. Roll some above average dice and it can shred infantry. Having said that i recommend only a few spare bodies on devs, 2 or 3 usually does the trick.

 Doomhunter wrote:

 Defeater wrote:

 Doomhunter wrote:
I've been toying with the idea of a C:SM devastator squad (I know, they're overpriced) with four heavy bolters. Given the new(ish) hull point and cover rules I feel they might be useful, if not entertaining.
So, Dakka, what do you think? could I get some mileage out of HB devs without turning to BA or SW?

Hey doomhunter. How does your current army play? Are you mech, podding, slogging? This plays an important roll into how to effectively field these guys. I currently run a unit of LF with all heavy bolters and drop pod them in. With a Rune Priest (Librarian) This unit tears things up and is cheap enough to not worry too much if they become a target. I find that heavy bolters are just as amazing in this edition as they were before and continue to be well worth their points. Anyway let me know a few more details and we will work from there.

My army is mostly a gunline, with a few deepstriking units to keep my opponent on his toes.
I usually have a rifleman dread and a tri las predator, and because FW is allowed in my area, I have a contemptor mortis that I usually field. Oh, I have the usual tac squads for objective capping. The main problem my list(s) have is a lack of long range anti-infantry firepower, so I thought I might put this idea forward.

Good stuff mate. Here is, in my opinion, what would best serve your army. I think, given the described situation and need, that this HB Dev squad will actually impress you with how effective it can be. Even against MEQ. If you are playing a gunline style marine army it will mean that your troops are going to need cover fire while they foot slog up the field toward objectives and such. This being the case we dont want the enemy to just drop a template or focus fire on our already over priced devs. I think if you placed these guys in an aegis defence line ( you dont even need the quad gun) and stick them about 12" up covering a couple lanes of fire they will really be able to A) Rain death on any infantry that crosses into their sectors of fire and B ) They will become extremely survivable with a 3+/4+ cover. Not to mention the 2+ if you go to ground. Also, you could probably use this to obscure your rifle dread or Pred anni and give them some cover as well. Tell me how this works for you!

They would be a nightmare to assault, especially if they were Chaos or SW Long Fangs. However, the actual in-game usefulness of them would be limited. Devastators are some of the more efficient ways to get heavy weapons on the field, like lascannons and missiles launchers, they are easier to hide than a predator or a land raider, and codex marines can be a bit more accurate with a signum shot.

Truthfully, the only efrective way to run these would be either as a walking gunline (snap firing anyway) or as a great objective barrier, especially in Big Guns Never Tire scenarios.

[quote=Nevelon 478642 4811052 7b5399245875a7de8dfd63fbbd340085.jpg.

If you do field an all HB dev squad, make sure it is a regular part of your army, or a set tournament list. If not, some players will accuse you of list tailoring. I've seen it happen. Back in the day, one of the regulars at my FLGS always fielded an all HB squad for his Iron Warriors army. A visiting 'Nid player got all bent out of shape that he was being tailored against until we explained that it was what the kid -always- fielded.

As cool I think a HB squad would be, but I find the dakka predator fills the roll better. Less shots but more mobile, armored, and a fraction of the price. I use 2 now and would run another if I had the $$$.

I also like heavy bolter dev squads, but I don't know if I'd ever actually field them.

The one thing they have going for them is anti-flier, but I'd rather use MM devs for anti-flier duty. 2 hits with S5 is a nuisance. 2/3ds of a hit with S8 Ap1 possibly with melta is a serious risk.

I play sisters and I usually put a 4 HB Retributer squad behind a ADL, and they do wonders. I get the chance of making them rending, but even if I don't get it it's an ass ton of shots. In my last game vs a deathwing army I think they killed more terminators just through shear volume of fire.