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On pages 353-354 of the BRB we're treated to a few shots of an Inquisitor and his Henchman retinue tooling around in a "commandeered" Valkyrie. How might one go about doing this in game legally, as I have about 6 spare vendetta/valks to blow on such a project, but I'd like it to be legal. Anyone got any ideas?

PolecatEZ wrote:
On pages 353-354 of the BRB we're treated to a few shots of an Inquisitor and his Henchman retinue tooling around in a "commandeered" Valkyrie. How might one go about doing this in game legally, as I have about 6 spare vendetta/valks to blow on such a project, but I'd like it to be legal. Anyone got any ideas?

1) IG, counts-as inquisitor.

2) IG + GK allies.

3) GK + IG allies.

Depends on how much you want your list to emphasize Valkyrie + troops compared to the other inquisition elements.

Waht peregrine said. I would recommend Coteaz and a Henchmen squad allied to an IG force

Peregrine wrote:1) IG, counts-as inquisitor.

Considering how the rules work concerning transports and allies, this is sadly the only option if you actually want the Inquisitor to ride in it. :(

Not necessarily. Since the Valk isn't actually a dedicated transport you may be able to swing it

TheAngrySquig wrote:Not necessarily. Since the Valk isn't actually a dedicated transport you may be able to swing it

You're not allowed to use an allied transport, regardless of whether it's dedicated or not.

Sad, but true. Otherwise I would've been tempted to get a few Valks or Drop Pods for my SoB as well!

Damn, thought you might have been able to weasel that

I can't think of any way around it, except to make a Commissar a counts-as Inquisitor and put him with IG storm troopers. No psyker ability or cool rules that way though.

Funny that you could pack a real inquisitor into a chimera arbitrarily, but not a valk.

Yeah, you'd have to use a counts-as inquisitor no matter what, but you could use allies to bring in other inquisitorial elements like assassins or whatever.

The other alternative is you could use the FW Aquila, since it's a dedicated transport for an inquisitor. You could either use the model and rules and just settle for having a flyer at all, or you could count a Valkyrie as an Aquila (remove the wing weapons though) and hope your opponent will accept it (which should be fine as long as your list has no Valkyries or Vendettas).

I've been wanting to make an Inquisitor Valkyrie as well, but as I've also been dissapointed to find no options for taking it, I'm going to use the Valkyrie and Counts As a Storm Raven.

Imperial Armour Volume 2 contains lists for Inquisitorial Valkyries - that book is still legal as it's the latest version and I play using that.

Hoping the upcoming rerelease of V2 will keep the list in.

First of all, thread necromancy is bad.

Tetsugaku wrote:
Imperial Armour Volume 2 contains lists for Inquisitorial Valkyries - that book is still legal as it's the latest version and I play using that.

And this is not true. The book itself is from third/early 4th edition (depending on when exactly it was published in 2004), and even the 5th edition update pdf is based on the old witch hunters/demon hunters codices which have been replaced by SoB/GK. For example, the inquisitorial Valkyrie is available as a transport for inquisitorial storm troopers, a unit which no longer exists. Claiming that you can take the Valkyrie based on those obsolete rules is about as legitimate as me claiming STR 10 railguns on my Broadsides because the old Tau codex had them.

Now, you can always ask your opponent to add a house rule that you can take a Valkyrie in your GK/SoB list, but that's entirely different from it being a legal option in the actual rules of the game.

I think you worry about the letter rather than the spirit of the rules too much

They're in the fluff, multiple times, the last published rules, and the follow up 1.3 FAQ supports them and players out there have models specifically made for this role, no rule change is going to stop me using a previously legal GW model in any games.

Your Tau example doesn't stand as that codes has been replaced. The Imp Armour V2 hasn't, so it does.

Lastly - "First of all, thread necromancy is bad. " I'm sure it is, but the warning I had said it was ok if I had something important to add - an example of how to do what the original poster wanted is pretty important IMO.

Tetsugaku wrote:
I think you worry about the letter rather than the spirit of the rules too much

And I think you're rules lawyering a technicality instead of going by the spirit of the rules, that the absence current rules for the inquisitorial Valkyrie (despite plenty of opportunities to give current ones) means that it is no longer part of the game.

They're in the fluff, multiple times, the last published rules, and the follow up 1.3 FAQ supports them and players out there have models specifically made for this role, no rule change is going to stop me using a previously legal GW model in any games.

And they've been removed now that the old inquisition codices have been replaced by GK/SoB. The fact that you want to keep using a model from the old codex doesn't change this fact.

Your Tau example doesn't stand as that codes has been replaced. The Imp Armour V2 hasn't, so it does.

It has been replaced. The book is out of print, the update pdfs required to even attempt to use it in 6th have been removed from the download page, all of the units (with the exception of ones like the Valkyrie that don't exist anymore) have been published in other books with updated rules, and the codices that the inquisitorial stuff refers to have been replaced. The fact that you found something that doesn't technically have an "obsolete, do not use" note on it doesn't make IA2 a current and valid source of rules.

Lastly - "First of all, thread necromancy is bad. " I'm sure it is, but the warning I had said it was ok if I had something important to add - an example of how to do what the original poster wanted is pretty important IMO.

I don't really see how "you can use house rules to do it" is really adding anything that hasn't been covered yet, especially since the OP has not posted here in over six months and will probably never read your reply.

 Peregrine wrote:


It has been replaced. The book is out of print, the update pdfs required to even attempt to use it in 6th have been removed from the download page, all of the units (with the exception of ones like the Valkyrie that don't exist anymore) have been published in other books with updated rules, and the codices that the inquisitorial stuff refers to have been replaced. The fact that you found something that doesn't technically have an "obsolete, do not use" note on it doesn't make IA2 a current and valid source of rules.

I don't really see how "you can use house rules to do it" is really adding anything that hasn't been covered yet, especially since the OP has not posted here in over six months and will probably never read your reply.

Well we'll just have to disagree on that I'm afraid - it hasn't been replaced and out of print doesn't mean no longer usable. They *are* the most recent version of the rules meaning this definitely is *not* a house rule. Therefore - I thought it relevant.

I've had no beef playing with it, your group may vary

Tetsugaku wrote:
it hasn't been replaced and out of print doesn't mean no longer usable.

It's not just that the book is out of print, it's the combination of everything. The book is out of print, the rules are all obsolete and no longer functional, the update pdfs are gone, the rules that FW wants to keep have all been re-printed elsewhere, and the codices it depends on are no longer legal.

They *are* the most recent version of the rules meaning this definitely is *not* a house rule.

No, the most recent version of the rules is "this unit does not exist". The fact that you found a third-edition book (with rules that don't work in 6th or with the current GK/SoB codices) that has something you want to use doesn't make it current.


PS: how many hull points does an inquisitorial Valkyrie have?

PolecatEZ wrote:
On pages 353-354 of the BRB we're treated to a few shots of an Inquisitor and his Henchman retinue tooling around in a "commandeered" Valkyrie. How might one go about doing this in game legally, as I have about 6 spare vendetta/valks to blow on such a project, but I'd like it to be legal. Anyone got any ideas?

Yes, actually, almost, as I've been thinking the same thing.

I'm using a Valkyrye model and having it count as a Storm Raven. I've modeled the 'upgrades' the Inquisitor as made to it (both to work with the fluff and to keep it clear on the battle field) - I've thrown hurricanebolter sponsons from the Storm Raven on the sides behind the doors, thrown a couple multi-meltas up by the cockpit where the sensors should be, and am working on mounting an assault cannon turret Somewhere. I'd post a pic but I'm not at home right now.

I really think using the Valkyrie model as a counts-as Storm Raven is the best way to do it, buying the Inquisitor and the Storm Raven as Allies from the 5th ed GK codex as normal.

And you know what? Let's settle this indisputably against the inquisitorial Valkyrie being legal: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/v/vehicle6thupdates.pdf

That is the 6th edition vehicle update. It has the following quote:

The table below covers all of the vehicles available from Forge World for use in Warhammer 40,000, divided into sections for each of the major factions of the Warhammer 40,000 universe.

See anything missing? No more inquisitorial Valkyrie. Therefore we can conclude that it is no longer available, and you can not use it anymore.

Not that indisputable.

1) Valkyries are no longer FW vehicles as they're made by GW proper in Plastic, I wouldn't expect them to be covered on the 6th edition vehicle update - here. "all of the vehicles available from Forge World " by definition wouldn't cover Valkyries.

2) The model was made and had specific Inquisitor options (doors) - we know GW and FW's policy is not to retire any models from legal play where possible.

3) "PS: how many hull points does an inquisitorial Valkyrie have?" the same amount the IG Valkyrie has - that's the spirit of the rules

As I say we can argue all night but if you're not going to agree you're not going to agree - I use it, happily and without guilt, openly referring to IA2, which I have. The model is also awesome. so :p

Tetsugaku wrote:
1) Valkyries are no longer FW vehicles as they're made by GW proper in Plastic, I wouldn't expect them to be covered on the 6th edition vehicle update - here. "all of the vehicles available from Forge World " by definition wouldn't cover Valkyries.

Except this is a rules update not a model update, and if the inquisitorial Valkyrie still existed its rules would be from FW. Just like how turret emplacements got a 6th edition update even though the model is OOP and no longer available.

2) The model was made and had specific Inquisitor options (doors) - we know GW and FW's policy is not to retire any models from legal play where possible.

No we don't know that policy, especially when we're talking about an aesthetic modification like Valkyrie doors. Just ask any former witch hunters player about what happened to their inquisitorial storm troopers when they got the SoB codex.

(They were removed entirely, and those models are no longer legal.)

3) "PS: how many hull points does an inquisitorial Valkyrie have?" the same amount the IG Valkyrie has - that's the spirit of the rules

Nope, not the same unit. That's why the FW Leman Russ variants had to get hull point updates from FW instead of just using the standard 3 HP of the codex variants.

But anyway, the point was that FW didn't give it an update to have hull points because it no longer exists as a legal unit.

I use it, happily and without guilt, openly referring to IA2, which I have.

I'm glad you have friends willing to let you use a house rule and take units that are no longer legal. That doesn't make it any less of a house rule.

You really are devoted aren;t you? I've already told you I don;t consider it a hosue rule, no one else I've played with or talked to does, it's not a house rule, they are the latest published rules.

You can disagree of course - so good for you

Except this is a rules update not a model update, and if the inquisitorial Valkyrie still existed its rules would be from FW. Just like how turret emplacements got a 6th edition update even though the model is OOP and no longer available.

Bad comparison - the turrets haven;t been replaced with GW plastic.

No we don't know that policy, especially when we're talking about an aesthetic modification like Valkyrie doors. Just ask any former witch hunters player about what happened to their inquisitorial storm troopers when they got the SoB codex.

If a statement from Jervis Johnson saying exactly that in a WD editorial isn't policy, I don't know what is.

(They were removed entirely, and those models are no longer legal.)

Stromtrooper models are perfectly legal and there are rules to make them in Grey Knights.

That's why the FW Leman Russ variants had to get hull point updates from FW instead of just using the standard 3 HP of the codex variants.

Let me guess, did they get 3?

I'm glad you have friends willing to let you use a house rule and take units that are no longer legal. That doesn't make it any less of a house rule.

It's not a house rule by my definition, or anyone else I've asked. Except you.

Tetsugaku wrote:
I've already told you I don;t consider it a hosue rule, no one else I've played with or talked to does, it's not a house rule, they are the latest published rules.

Being the latest published rules is not the same as being legal. They are obsolete third-edition rules that have been removed from the current game. The fact that IA2 hasn't been reprinted yet (something that isn't a high priority since everything that matters has been published elsewhere, like in the Badab War books) doesn't mean that everything in it is still legal.

Bad comparison - the turrets haven;t been replaced with GW plastic.

No, but the point is that the updates were for FW rules, whether or not there was a FW model was irrelevant. If the inquisitorial Valkyrie still existed it would have FW rules and be updated by FW, no matter what model kit you use to represent it. The fact that FW deliberately refused to give it 6th edition rules means that it is not part of the game anymore.

Stromtrooper models are perfectly legal and there are rules to make them in Grey Knights.

And your Valkyrie model is still perfectly legal in your Imperial Guard army. If GW can remove inquisitorial storm troopers from the SoB codex they can remove Valkyries as well.

FYI not a house rule.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/539361.page

Tetsugaku wrote:
FYI not a house rule.

Yes it is, until it is published as an official FAQ/update. GW is notorious for giving the wrong answer when you ask for rule clarification, and we don't even have any proof that this email exchange ever happened.

Not a house rule. You could always email them yourself if you think I'm a liar

Valkerie as a count's as stormraven perhaps?

 Evileyes wrote:
Valkerie as a count's as stormraven perhaps?

Noo... why would you do that to my beautiful Valkyries?!?!

 Evileyes wrote:
Valkerie as a count's as stormraven perhaps?

That's how I run mine. Model shapes don't matter as much for cover when they're 6 inches off the table.

Only complaints I've had were that they forgot it has rear armor 12, but I've played them a dozen times with it so I think its just them.
And any issue is usually dropped after I remind them I'm playing the TL LC as a Valkyrie hull mount and not a stormraven's turret.

You can still use IA2 rules. The book is still in print. It is still up for sale on the FW web site. In most places you have to ask opponents permission to use FW, but as long as FW is allowed it is no house rule, so game on.

I was about to chime in here and support Peregrine but the latest iteration of the Inquisitorial Valkyrie rules (IA2Update28Aug) doesn't refer to codex deamonhunters. What it says is:
"The Valkyrie is a dedicated transport choice for an Inquisitor and his retinue"