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I tried searching for this but didn't find anything. Happy to be pointed to a thread if it already exists.

So this question came up at a tournament.

Under the special rules for the missions Big Guns Never Tire (pg 128) and The Scouring (pg 129), units (including vehicles) from Heavy Support and Fast Attack respectively, are given the ability to count as a Scoring unit.

However, does this also make them count as a Denial unit? And note that this question only applies to Vehicles as all non-vehicles (with a few exceptions) are already Denial units.

My interpretation of the rules is that Vehicles are only counted as Scoring units as that's all the mission rules grant them. It does not override the separate rule saying they are not a Denial unit.

Am I thinking correctly on this?

Vehicles are only Scoring, as their is no rule that lets them be denial.

You are correct. Vehicles made scoring are not Denial units.

You are thinking correctly. It is either a complete mistake on GWs part, or a clever and subtle rule so vehicoles are still not quite as powerful as a usual scoring unit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You are thinking correctly. It is either a complete mistake on GWs part, or a clever and subtle rule so vehicoles are still not quite as powerful as a usual scoring unit.

I don't think it's an oversight since the "Scoring Units" section specifically mentions these two missions and the "Denial Units" does not.

 Kevin949 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You are thinking correctly. It is either a complete mistake on GWs part, or a clever and subtle rule so vehicoles are still not quite as powerful as a usual scoring unit.

I don't think it's an oversight since the "Scoring Units" section specifically mentions these two missions and the "Denial Units" does not.

Unfortunately if it is an oversight, it is one because writers implicitly assumed that all Scoring units would also be Denial units. And this implicit assumption is very easy to make, Scoring looks to be stronger than Denial, the general criteria that disallow Scoring status also disallow Denial status. One reason why I think it is most likely oversight is because in mission special rules they need to point out that even vehicles are scoring units, unless immobilized.

GW writers generally haven't made too many "clever and subtle" rules. And when they've accidentally made one, they generally FAQ those out of existence: good example from 6e is assault vehicles. Before FAQ, you could not launch assault on your turn if your assault vehicle was destroyed on opponents turn.

RAW, this is obviously clear. Unit can be Scoring while not being Denial.

Luide wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You are thinking correctly. It is either a complete mistake on GWs part, or a clever and subtle rule so vehicoles are still not quite as powerful as a usual scoring unit.

I don't think it's an oversight since the "Scoring Units" section specifically mentions these two missions and the "Denial Units" does not.

Unfortunately if it is an oversight, it is one because writers implicitly assumed that all Scoring units would also be Denial units. And this implicit assumption is very easy to make, Scoring looks to be stronger than Denial, the general criteria that disallow Scoring status also disallow Denial status. One reason why I think it is most likely oversight is because in mission special rules they need to point out that even vehicles are scoring units, unless immobilized.

GW writers generally haven't made too many "clever and subtle" rules. And when they've accidentally made one, they generally FAQ those out of existence: good example from 6e is assault vehicles. Before FAQ, you could not launch assault on your turn if your assault vehicle was destroyed on opponents turn.

RAW, this is obviously clear. Unit can be Scoring while not being Denial.

I don't think that's the case, they make it pretty clear what is and isn't scoring/denial units and neither one actually says that being scoring also counts as denial. They've split them into two wholly separate things now with each having their own rules and exceptions (though some are obviously shared).

They have to make that distinction in the mission rules because it is stated that vehicles are never scoring and never denial units and there are other units in many codices in the heavy slot that are not vehicles. Same with fast attack for The Scouring.

I mean, they make mention of Troops also counting as denial units, so if it was implied that all scoring units are denial units as well why would that distinction need to be made unless scoring and denying were purposely made to be two separate things?

Hmm... so what would happen if both sides have a vehicle next to an objective? Do they both get a point?

Yes, because they both score, and neither deny.

Interesting. Of course it would have the same result as if they did deny, unless the objective is worth more to one side then the other.

Although, if one player had a denial unit there as well they would end up denying their opponent the point.

So this hasn't changed, has it? Ran into this issue tonight and was quite annoyed. I don't see anything in the FAQ so I guess this (zero sense-making) distinction still stands.

No change